Please Remove All The Anti Pvp Rules On The Epic Cluster

[Sir Arowhun 473]

I think the nice thing about Wurm is that it doesn't really tell you what to do. Of course, there are some rules and standards that make sure the game stays fun, but those things are often very basic and mostly common sense.

The reputation system doesn't really fit in there. The reasoning is simple, it forces things on players on a pvp server. The idea behind it is good (discourage same-kingdom griefing), but it just can't work well, because it will always end up with griefers trying to abuse the system while normal players can't easily deal with griefers.

Instead of relying on game mechanics to deal with griefers, people on pvp servers should deal with them themselves. It's not even funny how nobody cares enough about stopping a group of 4 people from raiding deeds. And of course it doesn't help that game mechanics is the thing that contributes to the whole 'can't attack the griefers' thing.

I don't see any reason to keep the reputation system. If the reputation system worked, then people wouldn't be here dealing with same kingdom griefers.

I've come to the conclusion that this might not be that bad of an idea. +1

[Heboric 808]

+1

 

The ability to group up and simply wipe obnoxious people who seemingly play to troll others and attempt to grief the actual game itself has got to outweigh any advantages new players will get from the current rep system. As I understand it the idea is meant to be Kingdom vs Kingdom - i.e. team play. When people start to play they should at least realize they are part of the Kingdom they choose to join. If they then act in ways that the rest find unacceptable, it should be possible to simply deal with them. The only loophole that I could see is the flood of FTP Alts that might then be used - attacking horses, gank squads etc etc. Imo and an easy way to deal with that is to deal with it as other FTP issues are handled - don't allow such attacks at all until characters are premium, just as no riding, carts, any sailboats.

 

Between premium players - remove the restrictions and rely on the Kingdoms to take control of their own servers. I am fairly sure that even on Serenity there are now more people who would wish to create a cohesive, functioning unit rather than everyone wanting to immediately rush out to loot and pillage their neighbors.

 

If all the people playing Wurm wanted to be like that in the first place I guess BL would be by far the largest group.

 

It's not.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Heboric

[Mattown 349]

+1

 

epic would be a lot better with these changes, i always found it pretty silly that in a pvp server you have restrictions to killing people.. (i mean this in a way where you literally cannot kill them or you risk auto-converting and being attacked by every tower guard)

[Kyoko 50]

 

Did you even read the thread?  This is about being able to defend yourself and take care of griefers and self-police without dumb rules punishing you for doing what is right.  Not about 'gunaa attack dis guy and take his stufflolol'

 

 

Excuse me for giving my two cents.  I'll just go back to the shadows and lurk...

Edited July 24, 2013 by Kyoko

[DefImp 19]

I do want to note, if we vastly changed the reputation structure, I do believe there would be some initial chaos on JKH. Primarily as power structures came into full fruition and asserted themselves. After said power structures had developed though, I see no reason why it would be too chaotic other than the random bandit or renegade deed.

[Haydn 102]

JKH would be safer than it has been for a good while now imo.

[Kagrenac 812]

People keep mentioning the low pop numbers on BLH as a reason not to remove it.

BLH has terrible terrain, the only spawns are trolls and dogs, and there is fungus everywhere.

Those are more likely reasons to not want to live or start out there than fear of being killed by other players, which generally doesn't happen all that often.

[Maxthx 642]

I do want to note, if we vastly changed the reputation structure, I do believe there would be some initial chaos on JKH. Primarily as power structures came into full fruition and asserted themselves. After said power structures had developed though, I see no reason why it would be too chaotic other than the random bandit or renegade deed.

 

I don't think we are playing on the same server... Your view of it is vastly different than mine. Perhaps we are defining 'chaos' differently.

[SmeJack 5,806]

People keep mentioning the low pop numbers on BLH as a reason not to remove it.

BLH has terrible terrain, the only spawns are trolls and dogs, and there is fungus everywhere.

Those are more likely reasons to not want to live or start out there than fear of being killed by other players, which generally doesn't happen all that often.

 

Aye I don't get it either especially considering anyone completely new to wurm has no idea about the differences its basically a case of eenie meenie minie mo imma pick dat one.

[Haydn 102]

I really don't understand the "it will improve my case and thus make the game better" attitude.

 

Why do home servers have to be like elevation just because you are ok with that play style? If you want no rep, you can go to ele. Home servers aren't supposed to be about living in giant deeds and hanging out with big groups of players so you can feel safe enough to go outside. I will continue to say that the rep system needs to be fixed, but removing it just sounds like a lazy attempt at fixing the problem. I don't think Rolf would appreciate the fact that the new player experience is only in veteran players hands anyways.

 

Welcome to Wurm, don't worry you're protected as long as you don't upset any of the veteran players. Enjoy your stay, now get out of my local or i'm going to kill you and take your stuff.

 

Would that be the immediate effect? Obviously not. But I know current veteran players on both sides, some that would help and police and protect noobs, and the selfish idiots that would love an opportunity to lord over anyone they can kill.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Haydn

[Mojo 2,095]

Pretty much talking to a brick "freedom-loving" wall right now

 

The only way you should be auto converted BL is if you "steal" from a deed when guards are there to notice you. 

 

Should be able to kill anyone you want, loot anyone you want, catapult anything you want.  Player Vs Player is the type of server we're on, not Kingdom Vs Kingdom - that's why alliances were put in, to have different groups of people competing against each other, even if they're the same kingdom it doesn't mean they're all working towards the same thing.

[outlander 30]

 

Should be able to kill anyone you want, loot anyone you want, catapult anything you want.  Player Vs Player is the type of server we're on, not Kingdom Vs Kingdom - that's why alliances were put in, to have different groups of people competing against each other, even if they're the same kingdom it doesn't mean they're all working towards the same thing.

MY HERO!!!!!!!!   I have held your belief true to action and gotten nothing but people confused by what PVP really is outside carebear'd world of wurm.  They doing nothing but rage texting me, trolling my posts and whining at every chance they get that I am a griefer ALL because I refuse to do it their way.  They wish to make us believe that we have to line up to fight on the date and place decided by them.  Never mind they have 70+ combat skills and all their friends do as well; you are expected to show up with your combat skill of 50 to die.  If you do not do it that way and go at them in manners that level the playing field they call you a griefer, cry about how you are attacking fellow kingdom players and call your form of PVP all sorts of bad names because you do not do it their way.  It is almost like 3/4ths of the game has never played on a PVP style server before, swallowed the wurm style of carebear pvp kool-air and if they have been on another PVP they were not flagged PVP ever....it is almost like they were/are just there for the bonuses.  

 

This whole "people from the same kingdom" should not (almost presented as can not) attack people is carebear thinking at its finest.  Sadly, this lie of the carebear has taken root so deeply it is passed off as if Rolf or some GM said it was truth.  It is safe to say I am not working toward ANYTHING the majority of people around me are working toward.  Frankly I would delete my character if I was forced to act like some people think I should and based on the lack of movement I will not need to be quitting anytime soon.  There is this sense I should respect the kingdom I am from yet that same kingdom labels me because I do not see it their way and has yet to do anything for me.  They forget our rights as a players to play the way want might be as important as their way is to them.  Nor has the idea that anyone might have other goals not related to those who "agree with their own shared ideas" ever crossed their like thinking minds.

 

So for your post man you get my respect because to me it is one of the most sane anti-carebear ideas I have ever heard.

[outlander 30]

MY HERO!!!!!!!!   I have held your belief true to action and gotten nothing but people confused by what PVP really is outside carebear'd world of wurm.  They doing nothing but rage texting me, trolling my posts and whining at every chance they get that I am a griefer ALL because I refuse to do it their way.  They wish to make us believe that we have to line up to fight on the date and place decided by them.  Never mind they have 70+ combat skills and all their friends do as well; you are expected to show up with your combat skill of 50 to die.  If you do not do it that way and go at them in manners that level the playing field they call you a griefer, cry about how you are attacking fellow kingdom players and call your form of PVP all sorts of bad names because you do not do it their way.  It is almost like 3/4ths of the game has never played on a PVP style server before, swallowed the wurm style of carebear pvp kool-air and if they have been on another PVP they were not flagged PVP ever....it is almost like they were/are just there for the bonuses.  

 

This whole "people from the same kingdom" should not (almost presented as can not) attack people is carebear thinking at its finest.  Sadly, this lie of the carebear has taken root so deeply it is passed off as if Rolf or some GM said it was truth.  It is safe to say I am not working toward ANYTHING the majority of people around me are working toward.  Frankly I would delete my character if I was forced to act like some people think I should and based on the lack of movement I will not need to be quitting anytime soon.  There is this sense I should respect the kingdom I am from yet that same kingdom labels me because I do not see it their way and has yet to do anything for me.  They forget our rights as a players to play the way want might be as important as their way is to them.  Nor has the idea that anyone might have other goals not related to those who "agree with their own shared ideas" ever crossed their like thinking minds.

 

So for your post man you get my respect because to me it is one of the most sane anti-carebear ideas I have ever heard.

Before it is said.  Yes, sometimes PVP does not involve them and you fighting toe to toe.  Sometimes when you got a 70 FS you should expect the dude with 50 to lie to get you out there, cheat (as in not fight fair but dirty not cheat as in rule break) by paying one of your villagers to let them in and steal everything they can from you when you are standing waiting for them to show.  If they stand in front of you THEY DIE and that really only serves the person with the 70 so I have decided not to just lose playing YOUR game.  Hence the killing of crops, trees and hoof'd animals.  

 

Would love to make wurm a place where on PVP server a player has to think before mouthing off to people; where just having a 70 FS does not mean you just win.  Where rowed fences really are needed and people start putting wild animals between their fence rows.

Edited July 24, 2013 by outlander

[Mojo 2,095]

Before it is said.  Yes, sometimes PVP does not involve them and you fighting toe to toe.  Sometimes when you got a 70 FS you should expect the dude with 50 to lie to get you out there, cheat (as in not fight fair but dirty not cheat as in rule break) by paying one of your villagers to let them in and steal everything they can from you when you are standing waiting for them to show.  If they stand in front of you THEY DIE and that really only serves the person with the 70 so I have decided not to just lose playing YOUR game.  Hence the killing of crops, trees and hoof'd animals.  

 

Would love to make wurm a place where on PVP server a player has to think before mouthing off to people; where just having a 70 FS does not mean you just win.  Where rowed fences really are needed and people start putting wild animals between their fence rows.

 

Although your PvP mentality is ... kinda warped, its better then the Freedom viewpoint.

 

Like, if I found you leading trolls into my deed on MRH, I would actually love you for bringing me pets to dominate, or the free weapon skill... People just look at it as a hassle for some odd reason.

 

Killing of crops/trees/animals would be annoying but it isn't a game breaker really, you're just annoying people. If you really want to rustle some jimmies you should convert BL and actually drain their deeds to disband them, not just attack them as a kingdom-mate.  I don't care who you are, what deed you're apart of, I'll mouth off to anyone who's opinion is warped and trying to hurt the playerbase.

 

Just remember my man, the more people you get to ragequit = the less people who play the game = less people to have fun with. I get you have a (I guess) "motive" for trying to hurt the MRHomies, but in the end you're just shooting yourself in the foot, you won't ever experience what being apart of a kingdom is about.  I personally love working with the people I'm with on Elevation, its always fun , which a game should always be - FUN.

[Haydn 102]

+1 to Ezalor, you can be pro PVP and not try to go out of your way to screw with people. You wont ever get very far that way anyways.

[SmeJack 5,806]

I really don't understand the "it will improve my case and thus make the game better" attitude.

 

Why do home servers have to be like elevation just because you are ok with that play style? If you want no rep, you can go to ele. Home servers aren't supposed to be about living in giant deeds and hanging out with big groups of players so you can feel safe enough to go outside. I will continue to say that the rep system needs to be fixed, but removing it just sounds like a lazy attempt at fixing the problem. I don't think Rolf would appreciate the fact that the new player experience is only in veteran players hands anyways.

 

Welcome to Wurm, don't worry you're protected as long as you don't upset any of the veteran players. Enjoy your stay, now get out of my local or i'm going to kill you and take your stuff.

 

Would that be the immediate effect? Obviously not. But I know current veteran players on both sides, some that would help and police and protect noobs, and the selfish idiots that would love an opportunity to lord over anyone they can kill.

 

I dunno about anyone else but its not improving my case and thus the game. I don't have much exposure to the bulk of these rules because I don't play on home servers I just fail to see why they exist when I don't see them providing much benefit.

The whole get out of my local thing adds to the Freedom 2.0 feeling along with the anti pvp rules when on Ele we are telling people build close so we can help you. The more I hear about the way of home servers the more it saddens me and cements my feelings towards them but I do still believe they would be much better off without the dumb mechanics preventing them from defending themselves and their stuff.

[outlander 30]

Although your PvP mentality is ... kinda warped, its better then the Freedom viewpoint.

 

Like, if I found you leading trolls into my deed on MRH, I would actually love you for bringing me pets to dominate, or the free weapon skill... People just look at it as a hassle for some odd reason.

 

Killing of crops/trees/animals would be annoying but it isn't a game breaker really, you're just annoying people. If you really want to rustle some jimmies you should convert BL and actually drain their deeds to disband them, not just attack them as a kingdom-mate.  I don't care who you are, what deed you're apart of, I'll mouth off to anyone who's opinion is warped and trying to hurt the playerbase.

 

Just remember my man, the more people you get to ragequit = the less people who play the game = less people to have fun with. I get you have a (I guess) "motive" for trying to hurt the MRHomies, but in the end you're just shooting yourself in the foot, you won't ever experience what being apart of a kingdom is about.  I personally love working with the people I'm with on Elevation, its always fun , which a game should always be - FUN.

I think you both got and missed my point.  I am only aiming for those need to be aimed for; I am not some crazy no focused serieal treechopper.  The happy lucky people who's village is about holding hands, petting zoos and friendship gardens have nothing to fear.   I walk right past those guys as they are maybe confused on which server was the best for them but harmless overall.

 

I like to show those, who really are carebears, that their version of PVP is soft and everything they preach about is just them trying to make everyone else a carebear.  I target the bullies.  Those who exploit noobs and those who need to see "lining up to fight" is silly.  My PVP might be warped but the business end of my PVP has never just been aimed at a clueless noob.  (note: now if the noob knows chaos is running toward their village/deed and still decides to stand by their friend that is different they are guilty in my mind as well)

[Mojo 2,095]

I think you both got and missed my point.  I am only aiming for those need to be aimed for; I am not some crazy no focused serieal treechopper.  The happy lucky people who's village is about holding hands, petting zoos and friendship gardens have nothing to fear.   I walk right past those guys as they are maybe confused on which server was the best for them but harmless overall.

 

I like to show those, who really are carebears, that their version of PVP is soft and everything they preach about is just them trying to make everyone else a carebear.  I target the bullies.  Those who exploit noobs and those who need to see "lining up to fight" is silly.  My PVP might be warped but the business end of my PVP has never just been aimed at a clueless noob.  (note: now if the noob knows chaos is running toward their village/deed and still decides to stand by their friend that is different they are guilty in my mind as well)

 

I cant wait until you pick a fight with the wrong guy on MRH and you have the whole alliance ganking you and taking everything you own lol.

 

It sounds like you have no idea what real PvP is, no one "lines up to fight"........ ever........

 

Bullies huh, sounds like you got bullied and you're just taking it out on the people who stand up to your warped sense of pride.

[Rolf 3,563]

If you want full out PvP possibilities go to HOTS home server or Elevation. It was specifically designed for that type of gameplay. Libila thinks that strength weeds out the weak so she doesn't care if you slaughter eachother internally as long as she can whip you towards the enemy as well.

 

On the other two home servers we have a different lore with honor ideals suggesting you should not fight among yourselves. This means we want to keep griefing at a minimum. We don't want too many artificial barriers though, and there will be situations where rules can't prevent griefing so you have to be able to take matters in your own hands.

 

We have never said that those servers are about full out PvP.

 

At -1 reputation you become an Outlaw and can be killed without penalty.

 

If you kill someone who is not hunted and who has above 0 reputation, you will lose 20 reputation and become hunted. It's okay becoming hunted. Just go back to your deed.

 

If someone has the title <Outlaw> or <Hunted> he can be killed on sight without penalty.

 

If you attack several times, you may lose too much reputation and convert to HOTS at -200.  Who will this happen to? Griefers and some people who don't know the limits. So just back away and rebuild your reputation when you have taught the griefer a lesson.

 

We try to detect griefers on these servers and make life harder on them. We give them hunted status and remove reputation for various things. Again, these are not PvP servers. They are KvK home servers, supposed to be fairly safe lands when it comes to griefing.

 

We have tried less reputation effects on these home servers, and it doesn't work well at all.

[godcomplex 63]

If you want full out PvP possibilities go to HOTS home server or Elevation. It was specifically designed for that type of gameplay. Libila thinks that strength weeds out the weak so she doesn't care if you slaughter eachother internally as long as she can whip you towards the enemy as well.

 

On the other two home servers we have a different lore with honor ideals suggesting you should not fight among yourselves. This means we want to keep griefing at a minimum. We don't want too many artificial barriers though, and there will be situations where rules can't prevent griefing so you have to be able to take matters in your own hands.

 

We have never said that those servers are about full out PvP.

 

At -1 reputation you become an Outlaw and can be killed without penalty.

 

If you kill someone who is not hunted and who has above 0 reputation, you will lose 20 reputation and become hunted. It's okay becoming hunted. Just go back to your deed.

 

If someone has the title <Outlaw> or <Hunted> he can be killed on sight without penalty.

 

If you attack several times, you may lose too much reputation and convert to HOTS at -200.  Who will this happen to? Griefers and some people who don't know the limits. So just back away and rebuild your reputation when you have taught the griefer a lesson.

 

We try to detect griefers on these servers and make life harder on them. We give them hunted status and remove reputation for various things. Again, these are not PvP servers. They are KvK home servers, supposed to be fairly safe lands when it comes to griefing.

 

We have tried less reputation effects on these home servers, and it doesn't work well at all.

 

So Rolf does this mean changes are planned to stop the use p2p alts to constantly grief home servers by the same group of people who are currently using the reputation system to the advantage and set up raids for BL

[thorlor 50]

The system as it is now certainly won't do now, it's protecting the griefers more than the newbies.

 

"Peeveepee" on JKH boils down to either:

 

1) JKers killing, stealing and griefing JKers and using BL alts/friend/whatever to drain deeds.

 

2) Raiders logging off in caves and using JK alts to "fight" the JKers.

 

I know home servers have always been a prime target for alt abuse, but this is just getting stupid now.  All they're doing is chasing off the new players, off the server and off the game.

[nosfirebird 193]

So Rolf does this mean changes are planned to stop the use p2p alts to constantly grief home servers by the same group of people who are currently using the reputation system to the advantage and set up raids for BL

 

So Rolf does this mean changes are planned to stop the use p2p alts to constantly grief home servers by the same group of people who are currently using the reputation system to the advantage and set up raids for BL

If you kill someone who is not hunted and who has above 0 reputation, you will lose 20 reputation and become hunted. It's okay becoming hunted. Just go back to your deed.

he is saying to actually attack and force me off the server

We try to detect griefers on these servers and make life harder on them. We give them hunted status and remove reputation for various things. Again, these are not PvP servers. They are KvK home servers, supposed to be fairly safe lands when it comes to griefing.

i believe he is talking about the rep system sending me hunted/outlaw when i do something to a deed but i am personally not sure

 

If you attack several times, you may lose too much reputation and convert to HOTS at -200.  Who will this happen to? Griefers and some people who don't know the limits. So just back away and rebuild your reputation when you have taught the griefer a lesson.

another fight back statement. also this is what i do i am forced to back off and rebuild my rep which i am constantly on the brink of outlaw and am outlaw most of the time or atleast hunted.

with JKH's shear numbers each of you guys are able to kill me 15 times before getting up to -100 so last night you had like 20 ppl 20x15=300 deaths which would zero my fight skill basically and send me running off the server to recoup.

 

also if they are prem they are mains not alts

Edited July 26, 2013 by nosfirebird

[nosfirebird 193]

The system as it is now certainly won't do now, it's protecting the griefers more than the newbies.

 

"Peeveepee" on JKH boils down to either:

 

1) JKers killing, stealing and griefing JKers and using BL alts/friend/whatever to drain deeds.

when the BL are over here i do not control them they can do whatever they want they have killed a person in my group b4 we just have a vocal alliance that we help each other

2) Raiders logging off in caves and using JK alts to "fight" the JKers.

its a tactic with a overwhelming amount of ppl of course they are going to log off they logged into alts to watch the door strength and loot horses they were not attacking until you guys started attacking them we tried to wall you guys in but there is a restriction on them so we were unable to

 

I know home servers have always been a prime target for alt abuse, but this is just getting stupid now.  All they're doing is chasing off the new players, off the server and off the game.

i personally try to stay away from the actual new players since joan left DNPA i have left that place alone

[Heboric 808]

<snip> each of you guys are able to kill me 15 times before getting up to -100 <snip>

 

Your math sucks.....

 

It is also very clear that your constant harping on about the entire Epic cluster being meant for full out PvP, so you are the innocent simply trying to play the game as intended......and the rest are all carebears who should be on Freedom is so much BS.

 

Basically - you aren't playing the game as intended....not at all.

[SmeJack 5,806]

And all I keep thinking is how much easier things would be to deal with if......wait for it....... none of this crud existed