Pvp Suggestions

[Che 250]

Adjust local list
create a rather mystical/surprising environment where instead of 'got x in local' it becomes 'I see x, going in for the kill' meanwhile player x might not even be aware that he's got someone watching him.
It also helps a lot for people that goes out soloing since that player would then have a much bigger chance of actually finding an opponent off-deed without having a group of 8 chasing him due to him entering a players local and it would force people to scout and actually sometimes fight outnumbered. (The idea would either be to completly remove the local list or to change the local area to 40 tiles or so)

Delay death tabs
Whenever a death tab pops there's usually people locating these players instantly, alot of pvp usually doesn't happen because there will be a third party coming in killing the surviving players, another way of doing this is delaying the death tabs for 10-30 minutes so that the kingdoms involved have some time to heal up before the third party comes


Change combat rating while riding a horse
Right now you recieve more cr while riding a horse, this makes horses vital and it is rather dull where everyone with a horse is an infantry-archer-cavalry unit in one, if was reduced when horsed there could actually be roles of infantry-archers-cavalry rather then the 3 in 1 pack that there is now (kind of makes sense since sitting on something as unstable as another creature wouldn't make you hit more, just makes you more mobile)

Edited July 23, 2013 by Che

[Inventor 549]

I would at least like to trial having no local list and see how it goes. I'm sure others are curious as well.

[Aflacduck 2,174]

I agree with this. Set death tabs to pop every 24 hours at a designated time, from the day before. 
 

As it stands now, as soon as you get someone in local, both sides know it happened. If the group that is running around looking for kills can't get one in about 30 seconds, they have to run back to a safe place because they know that they'll have an entire alliance chasing them.
 

Make the game more sound dependent. Have horses running through grass be a noticeable sound against background noise, distinct from other sounds. It would be easy to do if you get sounds of hooves hitting dirt instead of the generic "creature pushing away grass" sound.

I think it would be very fun to at least try.

[vill 248]

+1 for

Remove local list

 This could be new interesting experience for PvP and the rest  :-)

 

-1 for

Remove death tabs

  Its good to know that PvP happened on the server =)

Edited July 15, 2013 by vill

[Fawkes 1,567]

+1 to all. I think the first suggestion might benefit from some sort of buff to tracking as well.

 

And to comment on the last one: in real life a stationary horseman was at a disadvantage when fighting a stationary infantryman. Mobility was the primary strength of cavalry and that can be replicated without a CR advantage thrown on top of it.

[BrokenSanity 717]

When I used to roam more it was extremely rare to actually have an enemy in visual range, and that was often with a much larger player base too. 

 

The only times I'd find someone was seeing them in local, and then sweeping the area/listening carefully and using pendulums. 

 

I think removing local would probably reduce the chances of random pvp.

 

Besides that, a lot of people probably wouldn't leave their deeds as often either, as they could have an entire enemy kingdom waiting outside and they wouldn't know about it...

 

-1 to removing local.

 

Also I like watching death tabs every now and again, it's a nice way of keeping track of the battles you're in too.

 

So -1 to that too.

Edited July 15, 2013 by BrokenSanity

[Gone420 609]

The fact of the matter is, with the visual range you have with your character, you WONT find anyone without local tab, unless you camp a certain area(roads,steppe,WL/BL)

[Gaeron 551]

removing the local list shouldn't be an issue if the game were more immersive in this area.

 

If a player is stalking an enemy there is nothing in game to give them away unless as mentioned they are in your line of sight.

 

I'd like it where the game gives out clues, perhaps odd sounds or small messages, "you hear the sharp crack of a twig breaking."

 

Just to make it more interesting, these could occasionally be done by natural animals and quite often by the unnatural ones.

[Bart 954]

I wouldnt say remove local, maybe reduce local to 30 tiles, and merge server count to a cluster wide /who, so you can't suddenly see when people cross servers

[Postes 5,282]

Remove local is just a bad idea, as much fun as it sounds on paper, in my opinion would have the direct opposite effect.  You may go into enemy lands and sit near their capital unnoticed, but people won't then come out all the time.  They will play it safe, they'll make mine systems, gatehops, minehops.  You won't ever know if anyone is in local to fight, you'll be pretty much constantly be using a pendulum when you're out.  It just wouldn't be as much chance to get PvP now as there would be without it.  

 

-1.  

[vasisuelle 135]

-1

By removing local, chances would be uneven. Remember, that players often use game configs that are either suit them most or best for performance, and there could be huge difference - one player can see objects/players/trees in 40 tiles and other would see the same in 25 tiles.

 

/thread

Edited July 15, 2013 by vasisuelle

[Che 250]

Remove local is just a bad idea, as much fun as it sounds on paper, in my opinion would have the direct opposite effect.  You may go into enemy lands and sit near their capital unnoticed, but people won't then come out all the time.  They will play it safe, they'll make mine systems, gatehops, minehops.  You won't ever know if anyone is in local to fight, you'll be pretty much constantly be using a pendulum when you're out.  It just wouldn't be as much chance to get PvP now as there would be without it.  

 

-1.

Isn't that exactly how it is now? mine systems.. gatehops.. minehops.. people never leaving deed..

I think it would create more pvp at the same time, more pvp would happen at hota, more pvp would happen outside of hota (it would be easier to go out alone hunting for players since the enemies will have a hard time chasing you down), raiding home servers will also be better, there won't be any enemy f2p alts roaming around looking for the enemies in local

The only pvp that happens now is either that someone is out alone and a group of player catches up to the player, or big battles where the kingdoms thinks that they will win for certain, there's no real small battle state since if you get an enemy in local you will either hunt them down if you got more people with you then them or you will run if they got more people then you, without a local this wouldn't happen.

If the trees was raised a bit higher and the sounds was improved (horses running for example) it would certainly work.

There's already systems implemented to see if enemies has been in your local for a longer period of time, the enemy presence that shows up after 5 minutes or so and /lotime.

As it is now there's little pvp to be found due to if you are outnumbered you will run if you have the chance and if they are the outnumbered they will run most of the times.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Che

[PsMaster 181]

Kind of +1 on all, would still leave about 10 tile radius of local just so that you have a chance to drop some stuff or at least get an idea someone is there. Wouldn't help much if the attacker is on a horse and you're just digging or whatever. Having the big local range as it is now just kills PvP as you can't pass unnoticed, would also increase the missions done on elevation (or at least someone with less skill would try to take their chances).

[Aflacduck 2,174]

Exactly. It makes no sense to say that fighting would be decreased with this. Fighting is decreased when 1-4 people roam around in enemy lands, pop local of someone who then runs onto a deed or is already on a deed, then the roamers have to run away because they KNOW that there are a lot of people after them with locates. If local was removed or at least drastically reduced, someone would see those people and they would be attacked because they wouldn't know, or they would be able to find people off of deed and fight them. 

Just earlier today I was running around alone in enemy lands until I got someone in local. I quickly pendulumed him but couldn't find him. 5 minutes later, someone who was coming to join me reported that 3 people entered his local at the same spot I found the first guy. They were presumably trying to find me. If this update had been put in, I wouldn't have known about the guy in my local and he wouldn't have known about me, possibly giving me the chance to find and kill him, or giving him the chance to see me and call in backup without me knowing. I could have just as easily been penduluming him from the start since he was near a deed and I would have been doing so anyways if local didn't exist.
 

It's pretty silly that you can know exactly who is near you and how many of them, without even having to see them or hear them.

This suggestion could work very well if contrast was be added to horse sounds against the background as they move, and perhaps have horses neigh occasionally if they're off deed. Also a large buff to tracking and pendulums could help a lot with this. 

Edited July 15, 2013 by Aflacduck

[Postes 5,282]

That's just like saying people could blindly stumble upon other people, it just would be incredibly more unlikely and hard.  You would literally need to spam pendulums and spam locate soul to detect people, and even then lord knows who or how many enemies there are.  

 

The reason people roam is because they know if they see someone out, but it's not going to be much fun in my opinion blindly running around spamming pendulum hoping it hits a person and even then a pendulum is hardly helpful if the target is moving.  It's just really something that sounds fun on paper, and the idea sounds fun if the server had 200-300 people, but with a limited population that peaks around 80?  Not really.  

 

It would just be a lot of chickens running around with their heads cut off trying to find players in the dark.  Sorry, but like I said if the population was massive and this was a giant game it would be great, no problem, and fun.  It's just not that fun trying to blindly find 20-30 enemies in the dark and hoping one is out.  You being in someone's local and them calling for backup is what generates PvP.  If you hadn't of popped their local, we wouldn't of come, and no one would of been any the wiser or closer to getting a kill at all.  How would of anyone know you were there to begin with?  

Edited July 15, 2013 by Postes

[Che 250]

That's the thing, pvp doesn't happen alot because you know their numbers, there's almost nobody roaming nowadays because why even bother? as soon as you hit someones local they will shout in alliance chat and then 15 people will try to hunt down those 5 people even though they ran back to their deed an half hour ago because as soon as you pop an enemies local you aren't going to roam anymore without having a zerg hunting you down.

[Versai 367]

Pretty much what Borken said...

 

Most of the time you don't just visually come across someone while out roaming. Especially on elevation, people are generally smart enough to stay inside or in groups or at least not stand out in the open air. Local tab is a pretty essential notification and only after seeing tab and sweeping the area do you really find anyone. Without local tab I feel only the players with high-end computers will have any luck. I have to play with my gfx minimal, so I can barely see ###### anyway. Plus I play with sound off since it's so repetitive and annoying, and the game kinda demands me to have music, movies or something more entertaining playing. I'm sure a lot of people play without sound, but it seems that would be the best/only way to triangulate someone's location without a local list.

 

I also think it could be easily abused. There are a lot of objects in the game that can entirely hide your avatar. You could be chilling in the woods under one of these and start sniping someone and they would have no chance, is that really fun? 

 

Yea it would be interesting to not have local, but I think it creates a lot more problems and unbalance than the effect would be worth. so -1 Maybe develop the Stealth mechanic so that it's actually useful in offensive situations and that I think would complete the pvp environment you're looking for.

 

I also really enjoy death tabs. When you're not involved, it's fun to watch and know something's going down somewhere. When you are in the fight, it's cool knowing which kills you were actually on. Yea, it's kind of a giveaway that you're vulnerable, and people might come after you. But I don't really see big deal in that, enemies will find out anyway via pm's or irc when another team is fighting. If people are being aware and properly NoLo'd then they'll likely be fine. -1

 

Don't really care about the CR/horse thing, don't really think it's a big deal. I use a mount for mobility, not the 1cr. I don't think it'd really change anything, whoever gets dismounted first is still going to lose.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Versai

[Wox 1,477]

Maybe a bad idea but I'll throw it in anyway (as a none dev ).

 

If spotted by tower guards/spirit guards or a player add spotted player to local.

More tower guards = more safe and more tower guards = harder to be unseen.

Then tower guards will play a greater role.

[Xallo 2,599]

Maybe a bad idea but I'll throw it in anyway (as a none dev ).

 

If spotted by tower guards/spirit guards or a player add spotted player to local.

More tower guards = more safe and more tower guards = harder to be unseen.

Then tower guards will play a greater role.

 

It could work, but then we'd need proper collision between the ground and all models.

 

Perhaps when the person/guard that found you is killed, then you'd disappear again?

 

Honestly, I'd love to take no-local/death tabs for a spin on a PvP server. It'd be quite interesting, especially if you don't notice you're being raided until you hear the catapults start winching.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Xallo

[MrGARY 12,421]

I think it would create more pvp at the same time, more pvp would happen at hota, more pvp would happen outside of hota (it would be easier to go out alone hunting for players since the enemies will have a hard time chasing you down)

 

More pvp would happen outside of hota by being harder to chase?  Nice contradiction there.

[Che 250]

More pvp would happen outside of hota by being harder to chase?  Nice contradiction there.

harder to chase > more individuals roaming > more small group pvp

[MrGARY 12,421]

harder to chase > more individuals roaming > more small group pvp

 

So all you're saying is, you want to be able to roam around with a small group, find a few noobs off deed, and be able to easily run in fear when any help arrives since that's obviously the only reason you need to be harder to chase.  Sounds... quite dumb.

[Che 250]

"It also helps a lot for people that goes out soloing since that player would then have a much bigger chance of actually finding an opponent off-deed without having a group of 8 chasing him due to him entering a players local and it would force people to scout and actually sometimes fight outnumbered."

Basicly if you are out roaming and you hit a deeds local you're not going to be able to roam anymore unless you're fine with being vastly outnumbered.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Che

[mrgbgbo 413]

Take away local from HOTA? That might work?

[anterion 4]

this is nearly the same debate as in EVE online. But some of these issues have been solved and also apply here.

 

Firstly, removing local doesnt solve anything (wormholes in eve have no local), All removing local does is take away a channel for which people can meet. And a mmo should be all about ppl talking/helping/hurting others. More ways to connect, the better.

 

Balancing pvp in relation to horses, +9000. Right now everything is on horseback, but the more dynamics in a game- the better. I totally agree with a pvp balance. And does anyone notice that chain is kinda the black sheep of the family?

 

As for removing death tabs, im split. Eve Online has killboards so you can track who killed who. Since Wurm doesnt, i'd keep it.

Edited July 16, 2013 by anterion