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ReaverKane

New Farming System

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Don't know why you guys are arguing about how voting should be done, there will never be a vote anyway.  We can make suggestions all day, but if they aren't in line with the Dev's goals they will be ignored.  At the same time, we need to give input in cases like this where a big change has obviously not gone off exactly as planned and is having a bad effect on the population.  We get to let our feelings and wishes be known, but we don't get a vote.


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Don't know why you guys are arguing about how voting should be done, there will never be a vote anyway. 

Correct...100%

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I said I don't support one vote per a person. Premium accounts are voting entities that equally support the game.

 

At this point I'm fairly confident you and Sun don't want ingame voting because you know it won't be favorable for your parties goals.

I dont want it cause it doesnt work.

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I think if we knew "exactly" why the change went into effect we could then better discern what the ultimate end change would be. It would be interesting to have just a bit more insight into exactly why this change is going in. I think the intended was for a base yield min at 1..iirc. But I have seen reports of 0 harvest..no idea if those are true or what the circumstances were surrounding the 0 harvest. I have a few tiles I planted and just left to ripen..I got 1 and some 2's..but its too small a data set to draw any conclusions off of other than its possible to get 1 @ 44 farming skill.

 

If I am to interpret the numbers I have seen thus far and translate those into sentences I think it would go something like this - It should be rare to get  pre 1.1 harvest numbers. The rare actions contribute to an average thats cloose to pre 1.1 numbers. New people can forage till they get enough farming to support themselves with it.

In there lays two different topics, yield for skill use (which appears to be an attempt to drive behavoir) and quality of life for lower skilled players, unfortunately they impact each other.

 

Using my previous statement, you could get the same adjustments by setting a minimum return on the yield at 1 or 2 for skills below X value, as you scale up for skill impact, you reduce the return at X+Y skill.  Using the old progression system for example, you get a minimum return of 2 + 1 for each 10 skill in farming with some minor fluctuations, with an average of 10 or at 90+ skill.

 

::ALL NUMBERS FOLLOWING THIS ARE EXAMPLES ONLY:: So if you baseline at 100 ql seeds and 100ql tools, and instead reset the values to be minimum of 1 yield under 10 skill, with +1 at 11 to 20 skill, then +0.9 @ 30 and reduced by 0.1 for each 10 skill from there, at 90 skill your minum is 6 with no actions taken.

 

Now, if you want people to rake more for more produce, this base yield is impacted down by a percentage based on (tool ql + seed ql) / 2, with each raking action adding back a percentage of the same value to the  defined minimum.

 

So 100 ql seed + 100ql tool / 2 = 100% baseline yield (6 crops with no effort at 90+ skill)

 

If the tool+ql average impacts the raking action, and you can do a max of 5 raking actions before you harvest, set the yield increase percentage to 25-50% of the tool and seed ql average (or 2-3 bonus crops) if the field is raked all 5 times.  So either 5 or 10% of the bonus per rake action.

 

Rare tools and events then add to this yield based on the level of rare action/tool, but are not required to achieve the baseline maximum of 6 yield + raking yield bonus.

 

You now have a reason to actually rake/maintain your fields, a use for rare or better tools, but no need to do either imposed on those who are willing to do nothing more than sow and harvest for any reason and expect a reduced return.

 

Those who work their fields can reduce the number of tiles, and those who don't work their fields need to increase their tiles to maintain their production, unlike now where everyone has to increase their tiles farmed in some way (partnering up, larger field space, etc...)

Edited by Hussars

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I was holding back my comments until new crops were planted and harvested.  The new system is a massive step back for me.  


 


I have planted with farming 33 and am up to 34 now, seed ql was 25-32 depending on what was planted, and my rake started at ql 28.5 and is down to 26.8 now.  


 


I performed 3 tends, 2 while growing and a final one before harvesting.  


 


I'm getting 2 frigging yield per tile.  Was getting 4 before.  This sucks and is a total waste of my time.  I'd rather just starve.   


 


Edit:  Apparently with my specific combination of skills and item ql, Farming 34.25 was the magic number for getting 3 potatoes per harvest.   IT's still not 4.


Edited by Nezz_Jaran

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Ok according to patch notes Farming Yields were tweaked...replant and try again...post your numbers.


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No replanting is required.  Looks like someone just did a +1 to all yields. 


 


I'm saying this based on the fact that I checked my farm this morning and the majority of ripe pumpkins were 5 (69 farming here), and now I'm seeing 6 and even a few 7's. 


 


I'm not sure what this event is about though, lol: 


 


[19:15:55] You managed to get a yield of 69.471214 pumpkin.

Edited by Seancarl

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49 farming..rake 2x daily..this morning got yields of 3-4, now getting 6-7


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::ALL NUMBERS FOLLOWING THIS ARE EXAMPLES ONLY:: So if you baseline at 100 ql seeds and 100ql tools, and instead reset the values to be minimum of 1 yield under 10 skill, with +1 at 11 to 20 skill, then +0.9 @ 30 and reduced by 0.1 for each 10 skill from there, at 90 skill your minum is 6 with no actions taken.

 

Now, if you want people to rake more for more produce, this base yield is impacted down by a percentage based on (tool ql + seed ql) / 2, with each raking action adding back a percentage of the same value to the  defined minimum.

 

So 100 ql seed + 100ql tool / 2 = 100% baseline yield (6 crops with no effort at 90+ skill)

 

If the tool+ql average impacts the raking action, and you can do a max of 5 raking actions before you harvest, set the yield increase percentage to 25-50% of the tool and seed ql average (or 2-3 bonus crops) if the field is raked all 5 times.  So either 5 or 10% of the bonus per rake action.

 

Rare tools and events then add to this yield based on the level of rare action/tool, but are not required to achieve the baseline maximum of 6 yield + raking yield bonus.

 

You now have a reason to actually rake/maintain your fields...

 

This design will not encourage people to put more effort into their tiles. Its obvious you're familiar with math so its hard for me to understand why you don't see the huge flaw with that type of thinking. Sow + harvest is 6 yield and about 2 rake actions with a high quality rake equal that sow + harvest time frame. But!, those two additional rankings don't give you an additional 6 yield. Why would anyone choose to rake more? The end result is nothing would change. Folks will continue to rake with low quality rakes for skill and plant bigger farm which they never rake for yield.

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49 farming..rake 2x daily..this morning got yields of 3-4, now getting 6-7

 

 

Nice

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This design will not encourage people to put more effort into their tiles. Its obvious you're familiar with math so its hard for me to understand why you don't see the huge flaw with that type of thinking. Sow + harvest is 6 yield and about 2 rake actions with a high quality rake equal that sow + harvest time frame. But!, those two additional rankings don't give you an additional 6 yield. Why would anyone choose to rake more? The end result is nothing would change. Folks will continue to rake with low quality rakes for skill and plant bigger farm which they never rake for yield.

 

Again, the numbers used were used as an example.

 

The idea is to promote a choice in how you reach the total yield.  You can just farm more, which is an option that is always there, or you can tend your farm without increasing your field size, or you can invest in a rare or better rake, all become viable options which reward those who invest in the systems without overly penalizing those who use the "lazy farmer" route.  Or you could choose to do all of it and go swimming in your crop yield.

 

It is all about viable choices to reach the end result.  Not about making everyone follow the same path to get there.

Edited by Hussars

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It is all about viable choices to reach the end result.  Not about making everyone follow the same path to get there.

The current choice of action does make folks use the same path to achieve a means. The most efficient path will be the one players most often choose. If we're given multiple paths and each one HAS THE SAME REWARD VERSUS TIME SPENT, then we will truly see a free choice system. We can go back in Wurm's history ( or any game for that matter) every time players are given the option to choose something more advantageous, they choose it.

 

Is the problem that dev's want to reward folks for raking but they just can't see folks harvesting 15, 20, 30 yield? If I was really diligent and rake (high ql rake) twice a day for 5 days I think I could hypothetically see 30 crops per tile.

 

We shouldn't be labeling certain practices as "lazy farmers". Its simply about time spent on a task and rewards gained from it.

 

 

It seems to me what the Dev really want to do is something like the following example. But that would be an extreme nerf and likely cause even more outrage then what we see now. They are in a awkward position where they somehow have to keep the old no-rake yields, reward folks for raking, but not let yields get any higher. There simply isn't a solution to that problem. I guess I'm an all or nothing type person. Nerf it all the way, boost yields equally, or revert and focus on something like, um, mine floor levels.

Example

--sow + harvest is 0 yield regardless of skill

--and at the upper end of things,  99 skill, rare 99 ql rake, raked 10 times, you can expect to see ~15 yield

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While today's update seems to have markedly increased yields for farmers with low to middling skill (and I am glad for that), the process of getting crops is still frontloaded, with the sowing action giving far more crops at the end of the week than raking.  I still get 6 crops per tile without tending to them even once, and my MO for production is the same as it has been since I took up farming years ago.


 


As I argued in a previous post, I can't see raking ever being incentivized unless there's a linear increase in returns for the actions you put into it; if the first action (sowing) gives you 2 crops, then every successful subsequent action (raking) should give you another two crops.  If you kept the base numbers low, such as 1 for 1-44 skill, 2 for 45-89, and 3 for 90-99, then a newbie who is diligent when tending to his field would get 6 crops per tile, a mid-skill farmer would get 12, and a master farmer would get 18.


 


Another way of looking at it, if you really want to make raking worthwhile, is a guaranteed harvest of 0 if you never rake, but +1 crop with every raking for newbies, gradually becoming +3 each raking for high-tier farmers.


 


It's good news to hear that subsistence farmers aren't having to forage just so they can eat, but I find farming's mechanics are still mechanically flawed.


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38 farming


 


70 QL corn


 


QL 6 rake


 


Raked once before harvest


 


Yield 4


 


Still waiting on the others to go ripe.


 


yup pretty much all crops gave 3-4 this time instead of 2-3 with less raking at 38 farming.


Edited by Protunia

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Yesterday, a friend told me about how they got 19 crops from a single tile, then 5 from the next. I assume the 19 crops was the result of a rare action.

 

This seems... wrong. Very wrong.

 

I would assume that the 19 crops was a result of a bug (an overflow or rounding error in the code) not a rare action...

 

I have had several rare tends and even a rare sow, and I did not get any increase (other than what could be explained by the random nature of harvests). The harvest would be in the top half of outputs, but not above the output from fields that did not get a rare action.

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