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Talilon

Over 81% Agree, Enchanted Grass Needs Fixed. More Than 51% Ask For Permanent Grass. Op Updated With Ideas :)

Should enchanted grass be changed?  

286 members have voted

  1. 1. Should enchanted grass be changed?

    • Yes, it should be permanent like it was before it was nerfed!
      151
    • Yes, it should be harder to destroy but still have a chance to be packed.
      71
    • No, but lower the cooldown between casts.
      23
    • No, it's fine the way it is.
      56


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I see you are still looking to argue with everyone here Outlander.  Enjoy yourself.  Just because Rolf has not made a direct response to this thread means it is being ignored.  And nothing that Rolf ever says is written in stone either, so quoting him is meaningless too.  Maybe he will make a complete reversion (I am hoping so) or maybe he will just keep making adjustments to enchanted grass, but he is working on it and NOT ignoring what we are saying.


 


The problem we have right now is you.  We know how you feel about it, you have made that obvious, but we are tired of how you keep feeling you need to come back and repeat yourself, just to try to start a few more little arguments, make a few more taunts about it.  It serves no purpose than to troll the thread really.


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Posted (edited) · Hidden by KaiH, July 27, 2013 - OT, trolling
Hidden by KaiH, July 27, 2013 - OT, trolling

I see you are still looking to argue with everyone here Outlander.  Enjoy yourself.  Just because Rolf has not made a direct response to this thread means it is being ignored.  And nothing that Rolf ever says is written in stone either, so quoting him is meaningless too.  Maybe he will make a complete reversion (I am hoping so) or maybe he will just keep making adjustments to enchanted grass, but he is working on it and NOT ignoring what we are saying.

 

The problem we have right now is you.  We know how you feel about it, you have made that obvious, but we are tired of how you keep feeling you need to come back and repeat yourself, just to try to start a few more little arguments, make a few more taunts about it.  It serves no purpose than to troll the thread really.

Noted you hang with joedobe and Talilon on this one.

 

Yeah, I know it must suck to have someone who is willing to counter dumb topics in the same manner you all use to counter the things Rolf does that you feel are dumb.  Has it ever dawned on you that maybe all my posts have kept it from being reverted?  I mean really if your way might work does that not mean that my way might work?  If it works the way you all say I need to stay on this so Rolf does not think your side is the only side with a stance.  So in reality I am a problem to YOUR SIDE because I disagree with you.   Which is why there is this push to deny others the same right you all hold true..... in my mind that is your real problem.  You all can whine for change but can not handle anyone else's whine for it to stay the same; so I can see where you are coming from and how you miss your real problem.  (btw: i feel your problem is your are missing the fact rolf isnt going to change it back and have missed that point for lot of days)

 

 However, if you feel you have a real problem report it, if this thread is too painful stop reading and/or if you want to have real input on my "style" slip me some cash/gold/become a GM.  Hope that help clear the air for you and directed you to where you might be able to resolve some of your stresses.

Edited by outlander

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That's so strange. My deed is much larger, with a ratio of 130 and I've been having enchanted grass packed much more often, sometimes more than one tile a day(highest packed in one day was 4). I also feel that large pens look much better so most of my animals are in a large pasture, with a few 1x2 pens for easy access to certain animals. the 1x2 pens almost never pack, while the large pen packs all the time which seems to indicate that wurm developers want you to use smaller pens :(

 

Also, not sure how long ago you leveled up meditation, but now after 20 skill there is a waiting time between gains similar to faith for priests so it takes forever to get to 30 skill.

 

I did the path of love to 30/7 several years ago now but it still had that delay. I recall it being not an immense challenge, a smallish challenge.

 

I have been levelling recently too, just hit 40 on my PoK character. Yes, it's slow, but basically anyone who wants level 7 path of love and is a vaguely serious Wurm player gets there. It's nowhere near the grind to get to 30 weaponsmithing or 30 channeling. Let's not blow it out of proportion here. And with timers, it got a lot easier in my opinion.

 

I don't mean to talk down anyone's achievement - don't get me wrong I am impressed with anyone who gets to 30 meditation. However, I don't think it's such a great achievement it justifies a non-decaying resource you can create an infinite amount of (and a license to mint silver coins). Just my opinion :) If it was the 11/70 skill, maybe I'd sign that one. Almost nobody gets up there.

 

I will report my next packed enchanted tile in here. At the moment it seems really comfortably slow on my deed.

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I find the animal type plays a big role on my packed tile rates. I hardly ever see any in my horse/cattle pens but the bison and hell horses i see a lot more of the bison are the worse..well on my deed anyway. 


Edited by Kegan

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I find the animal type plays a big role on my packed tile rates. I hardly ever see any in my horse/cattle pens but the bison and hell horses i see a lot more of the bison are the worse..well on my deed anyway. 

 

Interesting! I'll have to run some tests with this

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Almost a year ago on Nov 2012 (that is TWENTY TWELVE) Rolf made pretty clear his feelings on the changes he made and would make when he said:

 

 

Aye, and its also clear that Rolf needs to realise at some point that he can't pay himself, he needs the players to pay him, and therefore his feelings, while important, need to take second place when its contrary to his customers expectations or wants, obviously this will not always be the case, if 65% of people wanted guns added, this is a big change that is contrary to the whole nature of the game, but when he changes a mechanic, and people prefer the mechanic the way it worked before, it makes sense to give the people what they want

Edited by Bart

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Aye, and its also clear that Rolf needs to realise...................................

 

Why does he have to realize that or any thing?

 

This is a prime example of the core of the issue I have with the "other side".  Your side seems to think there is this magic list of cause and effect with Rolf; that when certain events have happened he has to act in a certain manner.  The reality is it is his game so by default he ALWAYS gets to decide what he does with it and he always gets to decided what external factors have bearing on what he decides/does.  So from my point of view you all can have 4+ threads on the same topic, polls, logical discussions, illogical discussions, fruit throwers, brown-nosing and even people you feel are jerks involved...but none of those things can MAKE rolf do anything.  In the past I am told who ever was playing the part of "your side" might have badgered him into making changes they wanted.   However using my logic he decided using whatever reasons he wanted regardless of us all; badgering, counter-badgering badgering or a lack of badgering might have had no effect on the outcome. 

 

I also find it funny that your reasoning is a veiled threat of economic downturn as well as a cloaked demand to enslave himself to your side's thinking regardless of his personal feelings in respect to mechanics.

 

I dislike the attempts to use veiled threats, insight into a business model in which we are just consumer and opinions stated as logic/sense in respect to grass changes; as I still think grass is fine.

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Rolf always has things he needs to realize, and that is why this forum exists.   The problem he needs to realize right now is he is using the wrong tactics to get people to keep fewer animals.


 


We have the problem that there is a finite number of animals that each server can handle, and if he wants us to keep fewer animals in pens, then AH needs to be easier to gain skill.  Right now the only ways to get skill are to groom or breed the animals.  If he wants us to feed them as part of AH, then feeding them needs to give skill in AH.  They also need to live longer, so we don't have to keep breeding them faster and faster to keep up with the death rate.  And introducing the problems with inbreeding did not help, we have to keep more animals just to avoid it.  All his tactics make AH harder, forcing us to keep even more than before to keep up.


 


And nerfing enchanted grass has not helped, it has just caused a lot of bad feelings about it.  If the enchants wore away from use that would be one thing, but it just goes poof in places where the animals are not roaming.  I know this because I keep small holding pens for sick animals, and while I've not had any livestock in those pens the enchanted grass still disappeared.  If you had a tool or weapon lose it's enchants just sitting around in a coffin, you would be upset too, and you would be making many posts about it until it is fixed.


 


And we DO make Rolf relent and change things sometimes.  I was a big part of the move to revert the lamps, when Rolf tried to make us collect olive oil for lamps ondeed.  And considering the problems lately with olive harvests, I'm glad I did.


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Rolf always has things he needs to realize, and that is why this forum exists.   The problem he needs to realize right now is he is using the wrong tactics to get people to keep fewer animals.

 

We have the problem that there is a finite number of animals that each server can handle, and if he wants us to keep fewer animals in pens, then AH needs to be easier to gain skill.  Right now the only ways to get skill are to groom or breed the animals.  If he wants us to feed them as part of AH, then feeding them needs to give skill in AH.  They also need to live longer, so we don't have to keep breeding them faster and faster to keep up with the death rate.  And introducing the problems with inbreeding did not help, we have to keep more animals just to avoid it.  All his tactics make AH harder, forcing us to keep even more than before to keep up.

 

And nerfing enchanted grass has not helped, it has just caused a lot of bad feelings about it.  If the enchants wore away from use that would be one thing, but it just goes poof in places where the animals are not roaming.  I know this because I keep small holding pens for sick animals, and while I've not had any livestock in those pens the enchanted grass still disappeared.  If you had a tool or weapon lose it's enchants just sitting around in a coffin, you would be upset too, and you would be making many posts about it until it is fixed.

 

And we DO make Rolf relent and change things sometimes.  I was a big part of the move to revert the lamps, when Rolf tried to make us collect olive oil for lamps ondeed.  And considering the problems lately with olive harvests, I'm glad I did.

I think you bet on the wrong horse on this one; pun intended.  Everything you suggest serves the needs of hoarders or what Rolf clearly defined as actions he wishes to end.

 

I am so confused on how making AH an easier skill to gain helps anything outside creating a setting to foster a culture of perfect stat animal hoarders in record time.  Feel free to explain your logic in greater detail to me on that one if priv message, here or where ever because I can not see how that would help anyone but a select few.  It is like you all are in a state of denial about what has happened and why; enchanted grass is but the tip of the iceberg in respect to this revolution or revolt against Rolf.  The so called iceberg comes down to do you accept the creator of the game's vision on his game or do you not.  This is a very far cry from lamp oil IMHO.  

 

Making feeding animals boost the AH skill to me is as silly as repairing a hatchet giving you wood cutting skills.  It is quite clear that Rolf decided to make certain tasks difficult and remove the means to make things easier.  Deploying a feeding solution as an idea would go against the trend to reduce the ease in which animals are kept.  Why would feeding give you an AH skill boost when it is really just planting which already is bound to a set of skills?   Cutting grass already gives you a skill increase, planting the said grass/flower already gives you a skill increase and enchanting the grass already gives you a skill increase why would those tasks equal AH skill.  Like i said confused on how your logic includes feeding as another skill that gets increased in these tasks; unless I think like someone who wants more animals then Rolf thinks you need.  If you were talking hand feeding I could maybe get behind your idea of it counting as an AH skill but I doubt anyone on your side will accept hand feeding at all.  As your idea stands now how does the code know this grass is meant to feed animals and that grass is just to make my "yard"?  I do not think it would be fair at all if just planting grass gave you an AH bonus anymore than my hatchet giving me WC skills from repair/creation.  Land full of people with perfect AH or WC while they have never done the tasks currently related to those skills is all that your plan would foster.

 

Living longer, removing inbreeding and restoring old enchanted grass all are things that have been covered before and still in my mind are just things to serve hoarders.  It is so clear he wanted to completely and utterly change the way AH worked so much so that he destroyed the systems that allowed you to do so in the past.  The one thing I never see from your side of the discussion is the hint that at some point in the distance future you will ADAPT how you used to do it switching a mode of how you need to do it.  Because you said it best yourself, "All his tactics make AH harder, forcing us to keep even more than before to keep up."  That is the end goal that he has posted on, taken steps toward and done more even as these protests have been going on yet you are all still looking for ways to keep doing it the old way.  Including attempting to keep more when you know the goal is to keep less....this is not about the game as a whole it is about how can you do what you want even when it conflicts with the creator's vision. 

 

As an example I will use your example.  I would not like it if enchanted faded but If I had an enchanted tool sitting in a box that would randomly lose its enchants I would start doing one of two things:  

 

  1. See the new way things are working and adapt to the new way of things; rather then putting items in storage expecting them to work the old way.

Stop buying/making enchanted items I do not need nor sell since they might go worthless on me if they lay around.  (aka end my hoarding of things)  

 

A system of adapting might work for your team or side in respect to animals and bring peace to the forums.  Because if I am reading this right, at least you and four others, are banking your hopes on badgering him into changing it due to the changes in the past.  That seems like it is a lot of wishful thinking about changing a whole process back to a pre-nov 2012 world.  It is wishful thinking to me more so since the only he has done is further restrict animal hoarding and his releases on the subject show his clear direction with this.  I might be a jerk in some people's mind but I am a betting man and your pony has some slim odds at best.

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Just to hop in here for a moment outlander, making AH easier to gain could have some of the effect desired in vrooms post.  currently to gain AH effectively you need quite a large number of animals on hand to groom and breed for skill. Would making AH easier to gain solve that issue,  yes it would.


 


Do I think its the right solution, no I don't. In my opinion it would most likely increase the number of players working on AH Skill, and the result would be effectively the same number of animals if not more in the database if not more, because then players would keep the same number of animals they have now to skill up even faster.


 


Another possible solution would be to boost the gains, but make it function like prayer or meditation, such that you can only gain skill so many times per day in it, however I would make it a definite gain like praying, not a chance of a gain like meditation.


 


Vroom:  As I mentioned earlier, the intent was never to have permanent feeding for the animals, Rolf did not perhaps think through all the possible effects of enchanted grass when he added it, but he IS now taking steps to deal with the unintended use.


 


My belief is that making enchanted grass decay significantly less on deeds would be a good compromise, but it should never be permanent.


 


I would also like to see some form of feeding trough or the like that animals could eat from. something that reduces decay and functions sort of like a BSB in that it keeps a single bulk item in it, not 100 individual items. By preference it would only hold grain, but that's MY opinion, and obviously open for discussion.


I Would put a much smaller volume limit on it than a BSB, to ensure that players still had to put in some effort, but would not have an issue with something that would feed say...  4 average horses for 10 days when full.


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do NOT make it gain like meditation for sure...since that is very very broken atm..going days meditating every time the timer pops with 0 gains is BS. 


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Make animals groomable once every 5 minutes, problem solved.

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I would also like to see some form of feeding trough or the like that animals could eat from. something that reduces decay and functions sort of like a BSB in that it keeps a single bulk item in it, not 100 individual items. By preference it would only hold grain, but that's MY opinion, and obviously open for discussion.

I Would put a much smaller volume limit on it than a BSB, to ensure that players still had to put in some effort, but would not have an issue with something that would feed say...  4 average horses for 10 days when full.

Oddly enough I agree with this BSB and suggested it in a post about things I was shocked to find out were not in wurm.  It gives you the best of both worlds, imho, something that when filled gives AH skill and when filled meets the needs the enchanted people need/want WITHOUT enchanted grass turning into the thing that sets people like me off.

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Hoarding isn't as much an issue now. We have a functioning mechanic....deed tiles per an animal.  What deed-tiles per an animal have proved is that the proper solution is to put strict caps on what players can have. 


 


There is nothing wrong with removing the need to feed animals assuming you don't have too many (deed tiles per animal), you're paying a fair share for resources consumed (bigger deed for more animals), and you put forth some effort to acquire the advantage (either enchanted grass or stocked a feed trough). 


 


If enchanted grass never packs as long as deed ratio is greater than 15, well its only forever as long as that condition is present. We could argue that is in fact limited.


 


Feed troughs stocking should be limited by the greater off one real life month or months of paid upkeep.


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If enchanted grass never packs as long as deed ratio is greater than 15, well its only forever as long as that condition is present. We could argue that is in fact limited.

 

You had me until you got to this line; as I see animals in the wild once again so I agreed with you.  Then you sneak in this enchanted grass should be forever solution clause under the cloak of have the means to get it forever as being limited.  There should never be a way, means or otherwise to create a setting in which enchanted grass never decays or gets packed inmho.

 

If you get behind this then I want see you get behind:  My enchanted axes, saws and carving knives should neither lose quality through use if i am a prem player nor should they if they are being stored on a deed greater than 15 tiles.  We can argue that this is in fact just as limiting as usage and storage decay is; just directly better for me. 

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You had me until you got to this line; as I see animals in the wild once again so I agreed with you.  Then you sneak in this enchanted grass should be forever solution clause under the cloak of have the means to get it forever as being limited.  There should never be a way, means or otherwise to create a setting in which enchanted grass never decays or gets packed inmho.

 

If you get behind this then I want see you get behind:  My enchanted axes, saws and carving knives should neither lose quality through use if i am a prem player nor should they if they are being stored on a deed greater than 15 tiles.  We can argue that this is in fact just as limiting as usage and storage decay is; just directly better for me. 

 

 

By that same logic, you should be fighting to have enchanted tools die of old age, and only be able to make a new tool every 7 days. Doesn't even make sense....

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Bottom line, enchanted grass the way it was before increased game quality for a lot of people. Especially those who can't play every day.


 


 If you don't want enchanted grass, fine.... You don't have to use it! :)


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Bottom line, enchanted grass the way it was before increased game quality for a lot of people. Especially those who can't play every day.

 

 If you don't want enchanted grass, fine.... You don't have to use it! :)

LoL, nah I like it better when no-one can use it the way it was.

 

This topic is dead, should be closed and I am putting down my stick.

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LoL, nah I like it better when no-one can use it the way it was.

 

This topic is dead, should be closed and I am putting down my stick.

 

Topic is still valid if players are still upset, so it is not dead.  And I have to ask you again, can YOU enchant grass?  If not, then your opinions don't really hold any weight, as whatever the outcome is it does not and will not affect you, and your statements appear more of jealousy that you can't do it, no matter what you intentions are.

 

That brings up a part of the problem here.  Followers of the Love path are a minority, so we are getting shouted out by those who can't do it themselves.  But when a change like this affects the majority, then it gets changed a lot faster.  For example, when Rolf tried to make all servers PVP, that affected the majority and got changed.  When Rolf tried to make every village collect olive oil for lamps, it affected the majority and got changed.  And most recently, when Rolf changed farming it affected the majority and got changed.  Well, the majority of those that CAN enchant are getting affected, but those who CAN'T are saying everything is ok.

Edited by Vroomfondel

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Topic is still valid if players are still upset, so it is not dead.  And I have to ask you again, can YOU enchant grass?  If not, then your opinions don't really hold any weight, as whatever the outcome is it does not and will not affect you, and your statements appear more of jealousy that you can't do it, no matter what you intentions are.

 

That brings up a part of the problem here.  Followers of the Love path are a minority, so we are getting shouted out by those who can't do it themselves.  But when a change like this affects the majority, then it gets changed a lot faster.  For example, when Rolf tried to make all servers PVP, that affected the majority and got changed.  When Rolf tried to make every village collect olive oil for lamps, it affected the majority and got changed.  And most recently, when Rolf changed farming it affected the majority and got changed.  Well, the majority of those that CAN enchant are getting affected, but those who CAN'T are saying everything is ok.

Yes, I can enchant grass on my alt because and I have it my alt's deed.  Lot of people said they did enchant FEW got around to doing it or accepting money so I did it myself.  

 

So now that my opinions do count again we can all know this does effect me; like it or not this is about me too.   Also just because you seem to need it to know it: my alt is a prem account, I am a prem, have a deed over 15 tiles and my statements are made not out of jealousy but contempt for people (cats like you) trying to badger a system that works fine.  

 

So let me ask you do you have 4 prem accounts?  If not, you should get more before talking to me like you know me or think you can assume anything about me besides: I think your idea sucks.  I guess you do not really need to assume it as I have told you I think it sucks, you can assume what I think about you if you would like.  

 

Do not count me in your minority that thinks of itself as the majority; I do not want to get whatever you got on me or my alts.  As for the rest of your rant...not, even worth a reply as it is just more self serving dribble about how Rolf should run his game in the middle of the same dead topic.  Still a -1 to the whole idea, -1 to the vote and +1 to this being a dead topic.

 

 

p.s edit.- I gotta say it was SO much fun to throw in your face that I can enchant and as one I still disagree with you...so in your face ;)-~

Edited by outlander

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Is it possible Rolf finally listened to us and ninja buffed enchanted grass?  decay rates seem WAY better lately :)


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Posted (edited) · Hidden by Jberg, August 6, 2013 - Permanently removed from our community.
Hidden by Jberg, August 6, 2013 - Permanently removed from our community.

Is it possible Rolf finally listened to us and ninja buffed enchanted grass?  decay rates seem WAY better lately :)

So wait, you did not collect numbers on this before you went on this rant?  You mean you do not know if it has been changed?!

 

MUAHAHAHAHAHAH....

Edited by outlander

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Posted · Hidden by Jberg, August 6, 2013 - OT due to ban
Hidden by Jberg, August 6, 2013 - OT due to ban

 

Think you missed a couple of your horses are dead.  ;)

 

 

So wait, you did not collect numbers on this before you went on this rant?  You mean you do not know if it has been changed?!

 

MUAHAHAHAHAHAH....

 

 

 

Hmm, ninja edit? From your first post I think it's clear you are simply trolling so I hesitate to respond... But in answer to your ninja edit...

 

Of course I am collecting numbers, that's how I noticed that grass seems to be decaying less often.  And no, I don't know if it has been changed since it is obviously random which is why I posted so others could post if they noticed an improvement too.

 

Oh, and by the way, the only one ranting here is you.  Very entertaining how much this bothers you :)

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Posted · Hidden by Jberg, August 6, 2013 - Permanently removed from our community.
Hidden by Jberg, August 6, 2013 - Permanently removed from our community.

 

 

 

Hmm, ninja edit? From your first post I think it's clear you are simply trolling so I hesitate to respond... But in answer to your ninja edit...

 

Of course I am collecting numbers, that's how I noticed that grass seems to be decaying less often.  And no, I don't know if it has been changed since it is obviously random which is why I posted so others could post if they noticed an improvement too.

 

Oh, and by the way, the only one ranting here is you.  Very entertaining how much this bothers you :)

 

 

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