Show In Village Information How Many Animals It's Safe To Have

[Theodis 339]

The whole animal ratio thing is a bit confusing for some people. Rather than giving the ratio, why not display the number of animals in the village as well as the number of animals you can safely have on the village? It would make things much more clear for people.

[leaf 283]

I agree that it would be simpler, but remember that there is a random factor added into everything in wurm.  If a token said 'You can safely have 14 animals on deed" and one died people would be unhappy.  Add in the normal dying from old age, getting sick from being near other animals, death from miscarriage and it would get messy responding to reports of a deed ratio being broken.

 

Plus i'm guessing it's not a hard number.  Look at enchanting or animal taming.  You have your skill and then a very random number added in to get your end result.  You can have a slightly good ratio and still lose animals or a slightly bad ratio and not lose any.

 

Those are all just guesses on my part btw.

[Rasu 561]

+1 I am getting tired of explaining it to people especially when it comes to off deed.

[leaf 283]

That's my point though.  If the token says 'you are good to raise 25 animals!' and then they die, it's even harder to explain why the token message isn't a guarantee.

[Theodis 339]

I agree that it would be simpler, but remember that there is a random factor added into everything in wurm.  If a token said 'You can safely have 14 animals on deed" and one died people would be unhappy.  Add in the normal dying from old age, getting sick from being near other animals, death from miscarriage and it would get messy responding to reports of a deed ratio being broken.

The exact message could change to indicate it's not 100% certain but it's much more clear than the current animal ratio which already indicates that above 15 is a good figure. It could be worded the same that it would be good to have under a certain number of animals.

 

Plus i'm guessing it's not a hard number.  Look at enchanting or animal taming.  You have your skill and then a very random number added in to get your end result.  You can have a slightly good ratio and still lose animals or a slightly bad ratio and not lose any.

I'm not sure if you do any major breeding but I run a large horse breeding operation and the difference between being just above and below a ratio of 15 is as clear as night and day. Being slightly below(less than a point) I had over a 50% miscarriage rate and above it I haven't had a *single* miscarriage for weeks. It's not random in the least. It's as simple as being above or below 15. Yeah you still can get the random disease while being above it and miscarriage if you aren't properly taking care of your animals but you're sure as heck much safer than if you even slightly dip below 15.

[joedobo 1,187]

Option 1: Show a 2d graph that has increasing probabilities of various bad outcomes as the ratio gets smaller. Tile per creature (X axis) ratio explains increasing probability (y axis) of different outcomes. Different outcomes should have different color or pattern lines.

 

 

Option 2: Maybe something like the following. I made up the numbers. 

disease %:		90	25	12	1	1

miscarriage %:		99	75	50	25	5	1

Tile per creature:	3	6	9	12	15	20+

In both cases you'd look up your ratio on settlement info and use it with a chart to asses an outcome.

[leaf 283]

+1

Was never against the suggestion, just wanted to see a more detailed message. 

[Versai 367]

The whole ratio system is stupid. It's a cheap fix and doesn't really take into account the sandbox nature of the game. If you're at your max ratio, a stupid dog or something can spawn nearby and wander on-deed, then 20 minutes later, boom, you've lost two of your best traited horses. WTF?!

 

Off deed living is even worse... There's nothing to keep the wildlife from being around fuxing up your ratio. There's a glitch where dogs will coagulate into big groups near edges of water. I had a small group of horses in pens on a coast, and went there to find every single one had died to ratio indirectly from other creatures nearby that I don't even care about or domesticated.

[Theodis 339]

The whole ratio system is stupid. It's a cheap fix and doesn't really take into account the sandbox nature of the game. If you're at your max ratio, a stupid dog or something can spawn nearby and wander on-deed, then 20 minutes later, boom, you've lost two of your best traited horses. WTF?!

 

Ohh I completely agree that it is stupid.  However if it's going to stay it could at least be a bit more clear to the less mathematically inclined.

 

 

 

Off deed living is even worse... There's nothing to keep the wildlife from being around fuxing up your ratio.

The ratio is always 10 outside of village land.  The number of animals in your vicinity is irrelevant offdeed.  If an animal isn't on village land it will *always* suffer the increased miscarriages and disease even if it were the last remaining animal on the server.

[Versai 367]

The number of animals in your vicinity is irrelevant offdeed.  If an animal isn't on village land it will *always* suffer the increased miscarriages and disease even if it were the last remaining animal on the server.

 

Oh, what? I guess I didn't understand that. What does the 10 mean, then? Surely if my animal was the last on the server, I would have 9 more slots? I live in an area that I can keep about 10 horses going okay, but after that almost all my pregnancies fail and some even drop dead. But how does it know what's too much? Couldn't I have 10 horses here, and 10 more horses another 100 tiles over, or something?

[Theodis 339]

Oh, what? I guess I didn't understand that. What does the 10 mean, then? Surely if my animal was the last on the server, I would have 9 more slots? I live in an area that I can keep about 10 horses going okay, but after that almost all my pregnancies fail and some even drop dead. But how does it know what's too much? Couldn't I have 10 horses here, and 10 more horses another 100 tiles over, or something?

Well for a village the ratio is calculated by dividing the number of village tiles by the number of animals in the village. If the value is above 15 you're good, if not your livestock gets to feel the pain. Every tile that isn't part of a village is counted as if it were in a village that had a ratio of 10. Since I can't see any scaling effect below 15 the number 10 is kinda pointless. If an animal isn't in a village it is always under the effects of increased miscarriage and disease and there is nothing you can do about it except for moving the animal into a village with a ratio higher than 15. So to answer your question, *any* amounts of animals not in a village is too much so far as the new mechanics are concerned.

Like I said in another post; if you aren't part of a village it's pointless to bother with breeding. In the long term you will end up killing off all your female animals because it's more likely they'll die before you successfully replace them. And if you aren't part of a village you'll also face having to replace animals that simply die at random.

[leaf 283]

Like I said in another post; if you aren't part of a village it's pointless to bother with breeding. In the long term you will end up killing off all your female animals because it's more likely they'll die before you successfully replace them. And if you aren't part of a village you'll also face having to replace animals that simply die at random.

I breed off-deed. Nothing new, been doing it that way for a long time. I have an 8x16 enchanted pen with usually about 20 horses that supply cart/combat horses for 4-5 villagers, and another 8x16 enchanted pen next to it with a dozen deer in it. I have had no miscarriages, my animals die when venerable or rarely aged, and they do get diseased sometimes but usually when they are all standing on 3 tiles.

 

Not sure about any off-deed penalty.  Not saying there isn't one, just that I have seen no indication of one. 

 

More info?

[Theodis 339]

Not sure about any off-deed penalty.  Not saying there isn't one, just that I have seen no indication of one.

To be honest I haven't tested off-deed but my attempts in a village with a ratio at 14 were horrendous.

http://wurmonline.tumblr.com/post/46419444550/creatures-not-entering-deed-plus-bugfixes

"The creature ratio outside of deeds is always considered to be 10 which means more miscarriage and disease"

If it's not working you better keep quiet !

[Ronnie 64]

Never knew ratio / 15 was hard to figure out....