Dominate Made Harder

[Postes 5,282]

i never left a champion nogump in the middle of a starter deed, nor have you, but it is the fact that someone could (and has) that is a problem.  maybe gary/sme arent doing that, maybe they were using it as a pet, but that's 2 people.  you know very well Wurm has griefers like Gbelick, you know very well such things like dominating a unique can turn bad.  such power of uniques isn't fair, as i stated before just because it's not being "abused" now doesn't mean it can't be abused.  

Edited May 28, 2013 by Postes

[Che 250]

Saint Gbelcik The Great

 

 

Killed freedomers and therefore became a Saint

[MetalDragon 1,630]

i never left a champion nogump in the middle of a starter deed, nor have you, but it is the fact that someone could (and has) that is a problem.  maybe gary/sme arent doing that, maybe they were using it as a pet, but that's 2 people.  you know very well Wurm has griefers like Gbelick, you know very well such things like dominating a unique can turn bad.  such power of uniques isn't fair, as i stated before just because it's not being "abused" now doesn't mean it can't be abused.  

I don't play epic, but I thought the whole idea of epic was to have epic things happen, I mean launching comets into peoples needs making it almost possible to live/work there anymore is a bit ######, but because it's Epic, it's okay. I'd rather someone dumped a kykclops at a starter deed than that.

[Lycanthropic 523]

PvE peasant here, breaking up the PvP discussion for a bit

 

Anybody tested if this nerfing of "uniques" didnt slip to other agros (like champ trolls, green scorps, .... or are these also considered "unique" like the wallbashing-ability for "uniques" a while ago), not that I use much agros for fighting other agros, but I do like to dominate a champ troll every now and then when one crosses my path (none in local atm so I cant really test it out myself :s)

[Wiro 370]

PvE peasant here, breaking up the PvP discussion for a bit

Please you're disturbing the PvPers.

[Suntzu 644]

we had one, we brought it to hotas, but actual fighters the nogumps were in were nearly none.  we brought it usually as a defensive backup, but rarely it got used or needed.  

 

an advantage is like having a supreme longsword, it's fair, balanced, placed in the game and an edge over other players. a unique that is unkillable by less than 10-20 people isn't an advantage, it's just a slaughter 

 

How about in early epic when you tololololololed your way arond with all your dragons and I made the same argument... LOL

[Postes 5,282]

You guys seemed to have me confused with Gomeo.  Look back in logs, or talk to someone who was around.  I didn't have the Crown, my village owned no artifacts, I didn't even have enough Body Control to ride a dragon until I was in Mongols.  I admit I didn't make a huge stand against it, I didn't myself raid with people with it (or tried), but I didn't have any access to Crown, nor ever rode on a dragon for PvP myself.  

[kodiakjack 6]

I agree with the statement to remove it all. If we can't Dom something we worked hard to obtain, take it all the way away. atm you have pushed back the "mag end game" farther back. i don't think everyone who decided to walk the path of mag was thinking "hey i wanna make rock tiles" no they were thinking" in 2 years i might be able to dom a dragon! if not it was awesome trying".

and as some one stated. 1 troll king, against* an unlimited supplie of no gumps and champ no gumps. champ trolls are surprisingly scarce nowadays, with everyone killing them on sight. But I'm not saying give us them back, just take them all the way away. so when we kick the asses of the whiners they don't have anything else to say is unfair. 

 

Love KodiakJack

 

Loather of the constant Mag nerfs

Edited May 28, 2013 by kodiakjack

[Aflacduck 2,174]

I think the primary issue is that nobody has a way to deal with dominated creatures akin to genesis ripping zombies to shreds. Yes, I'm aware that genesis is not an instant cast, 50 tile range 1 favor spell with a 1 second cooldown. It's still something that is incredibly useful in the arsenal of a Fo priest against nogump zombies (which are still very hard to find, even after valrei spawns were fixed). It's a tool that is present, and all I ask is that other priests have a mechanism that can deal high damage to, undominate or kill the dominated creature. (Perhaps extend genesis to break dominated creatures and give libila priests a similar ability to break dominations).

Everyone here knows that if the troll king is actually brought into an otherwise even battle, the side with him is going to win. At this point, a nogump is a glorified troll that can stun and throw people. After the recent nerf, 7 BL used a champion troll against 4 JK and a nogump and suffered no deaths in the process, despite the fight being 2v4+nogump at the start. We even 4v1d the nogump afterwards and killed it in an absurdly low amount of time. One hit took it down by 1/6? of its health with the recent armor nerf.  It takes a handful of arrows to take one down, and a nogump can be easily killed with focused archery before it enters melee range at an event such as HotA. The troll king giggles if you shoot an arrow at him. Similarly, you can't genesis him like you can a zombie nogump. There's a reason nobody has killed the troll king on elevation yet. The only realistic way to break a domination on the troll king is to kill the person who dominated it. This is easier said than done, because as soon as you enter an archery battle and try to focus him down, your horses will be obliterated by his allies and they, as well as the troll king, will rush in and double the amount of orifices that you have.
 

TLDR maybe this nerf was too far, I don't know. There has to be some mechanism other than "it takes an hour to do!" to offset the ability to dominate uniques if such a possibility is to be in the game at all.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Aflacduck

[kodiakjack 6]

I think the primary issue is that nobody has a way to deal with dominated creatures akin to genesis ripping zombies to shreds. Yes, I'm aware that genesis is not an instant cast, 50 tile range 1 favor spell with a 1 second cooldown. It's still something that is incredibly useful in the arsenal of a Fo priest against nogump zombies (which are still very hard to find, even after valrei spawns were fixed). It's a tool that is present, and all I ask is that other priests have a mechanism that can deal high damage to, undominate or kill the dominated creature. (Perhaps extend genesis to break dominated creatures and give libila priests a similar ability to break dominations).

Everyone here knows that if the troll king is actually brought into an otherwise even battle, the side with him is going to win. At this point, a nogump is a glorified troll that can stun and throw people. After the recent nerf, 7 BL used a champion troll against 4 JK and a nogump and suffered no deaths in the process, despite the fight being 2v4+nogump at the start. We even 4v1d the nogump afterwards and killed it in an absurdly low amount of time. One hit took it down by 1/6? of its health with the recent armor nerf.  It takes a handful of arrows to take one down, and a nogump can be easily killed with focused archery before it enters melee range at an event such as HotA. The troll king giggles if you shoot an arrow at him. Similarly, you can't genesis him like you can a zombie nogump. There's a reason nobody has killed the troll king on elevation yet. The only realistic way to break a domination on the troll king is to kill the person who dominated it. This is easier said than done, because as soon as you enter an archery battle and try to focus him down, your horses will be obliterated by his allies and they, as well as the troll king, will rush in and double the amount of orifices that you have.

 

TLDR maybe this nerf was too far, I don't know. There has to be some mechanism other than "it takes an hour to do!" to offset the ability to dominate uniques if such a possibility is to be in the game at all.

 

 

 

so because we also have friends troll kings arnt aloud?

[kodiakjack 6]

someone has no friends....

[Suntzu 644]

 If you hit dommed creatures enough they go undommed. FYI

[Kagrenac 812]

good luck hitting a unique enough while fighting 10 other people at the same time.

[kodiakjack 6]

 If you hit dommed creatures enough they go undommed. FYI

one good arrow shot to the head, and they undom, usually attack the domer

and its not that hard.

 

I personally have landed a deadly hard that Hurt the troll king, why did i not try and kill it, we protect and preserve our unique...

[Che 250]

Uniques are protected against arrows

 

just sayin'

[Deathangel 427]

Read post, skipped most of the drama.

Feedback: I've had quite a hard time just dominating champ trolls. If Dominating is "harder" now, i don't see it worth being a spell.

It was quite difficult before, if someone managed to get good at it they deserve it imo. 

 

On the topic of using the troll king in pvp: have your side dominate like 1 champ troll or tougher mob/epic creature for every mag priest you have, and return the favor, at least that's what I'd do. Not sure if that's possible now, however.

 

Thanks.

[Fireflyb 920]

Ok well for one, the whole thing where "I worked to be able to dominate uniques and ride dragons" argument is pretty much ######, lol.. I mean, uniques are relatively game-breaking in PvP, and people arguing that "they deserve some kind of reward" for being a high channeling mag priest and simply decide that that reward should be a unique) is ridiculous, at least IMO... the idea of a player being able to control something like that just doesn't fit with the mechanics etc. that exist now, IMO, and certainly not the population that exists..

Also, the update specifically said:

 

Many players agreed that the dominate spell was overpowered against uniques, so it is now a lot harder to use against those

I don't think things like champ trolls fall under "uniques", lol, so not sure why people are moaning and groaning about how mag priests are "being nerfed" as if this will affect anything other than people who are running around with dragons/kyklops/forest giant/troll king, which, aside from a while back on Epic, never really happens (aside from Kyklops Strongbox PEE VEE PEE)...

[kodiakjack 6]

Uniques are protected against arrows

 

just sayin'

Kyklops, as far as i have read is the only one that is immune to arrows.  id like to read where you got this from.

 

Ok well for one, the whole thing where "I worked to be able to dominate uniques and ride dragons" argument is pretty much ######, lol.. I mean, uniques are relatively game-breaking in PvP, and people arguing that "they deserve some kind of reward" for being a high channeling mag priest and simply decide that that reward should be a unique) is ridiculous, at least IMO... the idea of a player being able to control something like that just doesn't fit with the mechanics etc. that exist now, IMO, and certainly not the population that exists..

Also, the update specifically said:

 

I don't think things like champ trolls fall under "uniques", lol, so not sure why people are moaning and groaning about how mag priests are "being nerfed" as if this will affect anything other than people who are running around with dragons/kyklops/forest giant/troll king, which, aside from a while back on Epic, never really happens (aside from Kyklops Strongbox PEE VEE PEE)...

My argument isn't Bull ######. That was the reason Myself, and others I converted to Mag, walked this path. To Dominate Great creatures at the loss of Many other skills. But Remember, I don't care anymore. I have fun in wurm without doming the dragon I Know so well, I perfer to preserve these not throw them into battle. I vote to remove it completely, so don't attack my statements Sir.

[Suntzu 644]

If we cant have it our way no one gets any toys!

[kodiakjack 6]

If we cant have it our way no one gets any toys!

no, if its going to be insanly difficult to dom uniques, please remove dom, zombying (how ever you would spell it) completely of uniques. thats fair, if uniques are OP

[Che 250]

Kyklops, as far as i have read is the only one that is immune to arrows.  id like to read where you got this from.

 

My argument isn't Bull ######. That was the reason Myself, and others I converted to Mag, walked this path. To Dominate Great creatures at the loss of Many other skills. But Remember, I don't care anymore. I have fun in wurm without doming the dragon I Know so well, I perfer to preserve these not throw them into battle. I vote to remove it completely, so don't attack my statements Sir.

'read'

 

 

Yeah the wikipedia is the safest source of knowledge

 

 

 

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.

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[bp1986 173]

Please keep the rare gathering tool bonus as it is. I was planning on reviving my priest just for this!

[kodiakjack 6]

nice troll Che, no rebuttal. 

[Aflacduck 2,174]

Read post, skipped most of the drama.

Feedback: I've had quite a hard time just dominating champ trolls. If Dominating is "harder" now, i don't see it worth being a spell.

It was quite difficult before, if someone managed to get good at it they deserve it imo. 

 

On the topic of using the troll king in pvp: have your side dominate like 1 champ troll or tougher mob/epic creature for every mag priest you have, and return the favor, at least that's what I'd do. Not sure if that's possible now, however.

 

Thanks.

I'm a blacklight priest and I have trouble finding the "dominate" button. Is it next to rebirth? You play on Chaos so I will remind you that BL actually exists outside of a few hovels on Epic.

 

Also, all or most uniques, to my knowledge, are protected from arrows.It only says kyklops on the wiki because the wiki is terribly unorganized. Even if arrows could affect the troll king, no amount of them would pierce his armor enough to force him to be released.

Also Kodiak, you had a terrible refutation to my argument. You answered me with a one-liner that had nothing to do with the crux of my post, and you ignored the vast majority of what I said in an attempt to brush what I said aside without any meaningful discussion of the points I raised. You must look objectively both sides of a fight and analyze where the balance is. If the best thing I, as a blacklighter, can rebirth is a nogump, which can be obliterated with arrows and killed with a single spell, as well as downed by 4 people without a sweat (since the last update), it is not fair to use that as a compartison to the troll king who is immune to arrows (or at least has high enough armor to render arrows pointless), immune to any genesis nonsense and requires a small army of people to take him down with perfectly placed gatehops. Surely you can see that there is some level of imbalance here? The best I can hope for is to kill the dominator of the troll king, which is an absurd task with the strongest non-dragon unique and his allies guarding him.

Yes, I am aware that blacklighters can rebirth uniques, but that's only for 24 hours then they're gone forever, and there's still genesis.

 

Edited May 29, 2013 by Aflacduck

[BrQQQ 2,854]

I think the primary issue is that nobody has a way to deal with dominated creatures akin to genesis ripping zombies to shreds. Yes, I'm aware that genesis is not an instant cast, 50 tile range 1 favor spell with a 1 second cooldown. It's still something that is incredibly useful in the arsenal of a Fo priest against nogump zombies (which are still very hard to find, even after valrei spawns were fixed). It's a tool that is present, and all I ask is that other priests have a mechanism that can deal high damage to, undominate or kill the dominated creature. (Perhaps extend genesis to break dominated creatures and give libila priests a similar ability to break dominations).

Everyone here knows that if the troll king is actually brought into an otherwise even battle, the side with him is going to win. At this point, a nogump is a glorified troll that can stun and throw people. After the recent nerf, 7 BL used a champion troll against 4 JK and a nogump and suffered no deaths in the process, despite the fight being 2v4+nogump at the start. We even 4v1d the nogump afterwards and killed it in an absurdly low amount of time. One hit took it down by 1/6? of its health with the recent armor nerf.  It takes a handful of arrows to take one down, and a nogump can be easily killed with focused archery before it enters melee range at an event such as HotA. The troll king giggles if you shoot an arrow at him. Similarly, you can't genesis him like you can a zombie nogump. There's a reason nobody has killed the troll king on elevation yet. The only realistic way to break a domination on the troll king is to kill the person who dominated it. This is easier said than done, because as soon as you enter an archery battle and try to focus him down, your horses will be obliterated by his allies and they, as well as the troll king, will rush in and double the amount of orifices that you have.

 

TLDR maybe this nerf was too far, I don't know. There has to be some mechanism other than "it takes an hour to do!" to offset the ability to dominate uniques if such a possibility is to be in the game at all.

There are a LOT of things people don't understand about the troll king, which is fine because not everyone has the opportunity to find how strong it is, but that doesn't mean you can write your assumptions as a fact.

There are two things that makes the troll king powerful. One is that it has a high CR, which is noticable because it's very hard to hit it, and it will hit you very often. The second is that even if you hit it, you will not do a lot of damage. Both of these things are very normal because it's a unique.

The reason why it won't win you fights, is because it hits like a girl. It seriously does <10 dmg wounds to players in plate. It does NOT throw or stun, it only does AoEs that cause medium wounds to everyone around it (even to allies).

It's certainly not a bad pet, it is very useful, but the drama around is incredible because people act like it's a red dragon.

What makes nogumps better in real pvp? Nogumps throw and stun, that effectively takes people out of combat for a while, even if you were only in its range for 1 second. That's just one nogump, and it's entirely possible especially for BL to get more than one nogump. They hit maybe just as hard as the troll king, if not harder. The only bad thing about them is that they can actually be killed, although that is unlikely to happen during actual pvp.

But put that all aside, the nerf makes sense (imo), but the biggest issue is that the nerf was caused because of a person who is known for only daring to roam when he has an OP pet, loudly supported by another person also known for being heavily involved with OP pets, and them accusing their enemies of using OP pets. The level of hypocrisy here is just funny now, and it gets funnier the more they try to justify themselves.

I think at this point we can only hope all OP stuff can not be made pets anymore and then nobody can complain