No Pvp And Monsters

[shadowblasta 142]

there kinda is a creative server, its called the test server, you can spawn items and stuff

[Butoxy 30]

says the established guy who knows how to make a jar and a mallet...

People need to learn how to use the wiki, it's that simple.

 

I knew how to do those things the second day because I looked them up.  They need to have links to it plastered all over the place and encourage people to learn.  Its the simple gratification of typing an item in and bam there is what you need to make it.  But a lot of people ask in chat because they don't want to be bothered to look it up.  Yea the wiki isn't 100 percent accurate - but if you can put the first two parts together the game will tell you the rest of what you need with a right click, examine.

[Butoxy 30]

You gave me an idea, a server were are monsters, but non of them are aggro. It's like an easy server, you know. You can do anything what you can do in the normal servers, only you won't be attacked by any monsters, a no-aggro server

How about this guys?

 

 

I guess it's all about what you are expecting from a game.

 

To me a no risk server would feel like a souped up version of Sim City or some other mind numbing game - but that's just me.

 

If they ever did create a no risk server I would hope that it was disconnected from all other servers with no character transfers allowed.  Otherwise I can see the imbalances it would create without even giving it a lot of though.

 

3/4 of the battle is physically getting someplace in this game.  Once you get there and have resources available it's not that hard, build a 1x1 shack and start building fences.  Remember - fences are your best friend (most of the time).  

 

The other thing is the game has so much content - you have to use the wiki - there is no way around it unless you like stumbling around in the dark.

 

A lot of times I think the game is too safe and I have only been playing a few months.

[Marcus 33]

-1

[Jarosz 189]

People need to learn how to use the wiki, it's that simple.

 

I knew how to do those things the second day because I looked them up.  They need to have links to it plastered all over the place and encourage people to learn.  Its the simple gratification of typing an item in and bam there is what you need to make it.  But a lot of people ask in chat because they don't want to be bothered to look it up.  Yea the wiki isn't 100 percent accurate - but if you can put the first two parts together the game will tell you the rest of what you need with a right click, examine.

 

This could work... if people weren't getting killed every time they tried to leave an established area...

 

Surviving as a lone newb in Wurm is multiple times harder depending on your play style than when Gold 2 was released (lots less mobs).  What I am trying to say here is that a lot of people who come to play wurm want the "minecraft" variable servers.  A lot of people have no interest in even PvE.  And a Wurm variant server can survive just fine without it.  The politics/economy is enough to keep Freedom players in game (and the majority of them don't PvE either)

 

I am just noticing a pattern of threads stating: "Well, I tried the game, but I couldn't get over the fact that I would die 50 times a day and lose everything" "It looked like a really awesome game though... some of us can't spend 3 hours remaking starter tools and mallets"

 

That is lost profit for Rolf.  While I am a die hard Wurm player (or was when I was playing) I couldn't think of anywhere else to play than on a PVP server (and a lot of them would argue that the game would do just fine with 100% PVP... Which Rolf took them up on once...)  Rolf could profit from a 100% carebear server... if anything, it would prove to be more popular than any other server and people could transfer accounts to the PvE/PVP servers when they "learn the wiki" enough.

[Ronnie 64]

Theres maybe 10posts since "release" 6months ago of players going on about dying a lot. And as I have said before, I start new characters every now and then run them off to a random place to survive with nothing more then the starting tools every other new character has. If you drop those logs or shardes you'll be able to out run everything to get away to safety and try to circle around back to where you were building. Its really not that hard. PvE is carebear game play, PvN(Player vs nothing) to me is hand holding.

[whykillme 1,621]

-1.. i really don't think this is needed lol.

[Torgrim 403]

Minecraft is a good game, my 6 year old can play it and he can understand most of it on his own, he especially likes creative mode because survival mode is a bit hard for him to manage on his own unless I help him set up a base first.

 

I've let him play Wurm a bit, mostly on one of my deeds, on Serenity and only when I'm online and close by. I can tell you, Wurm is not easy. It's not intuitive, the Wiki is in English, he can read Swedish perfectly well, but not much English yet. The simplest things are hard, you really have to read the wiki to find out to do anything and he ends up asking be a million questions.  

 

But the three worst things for him is

 

#1 Constantly getting lost, finding your way in Wurm is hard! He can even get lost on deed

#2 1.0 Fight skill, no armor, no good weapon and as soon as you leave deed you are faced with trolls, spiders, hell hounds etc. Blend that with #1 and the game is not much fun.

#3 Inventory management and weight. I have to say this one is hard in any game for a 6 year old though

 

So, where am I getting with this post? I really don't know. But I guess one conclusion is that currently Wurm is one hardcore game for beginners and especially for really young players. If Rolf wants to target this crowd, I agree, some non aggro server could be nice. There would be much less income from such a server though, since spirit templars are not needed and deeds in general would probably be less needed as well. This crowd also generally doesn't have much money to spend. On the other hand, the number of potential players is huge.

 

 

For me personally and for most established, mature players I guess Wurm is not hard at all anymore. Once you get your skills up and get some experience with the game, PvE is very easy compared to most games. I also don't think that having hundreds of players below 12 years old running around on each server would be a good thing in this game. Wurm is a game that requires players to show respect and live by written rules that are not always enforced by the game, it's also alot about socialising and I think it requires some degree of maturity.

[joedobo 1,187]

I don't understand why people can't accept that other players may have a different opinion about what's fun (Ronnie is a prime example).

 

Games become successful by offering experiences that fulfill current and potential customer desires. Telling folks how to play is not in the spirit of a sandbox game. Denying folks the opportunity to enjoy a different type of gaming environment just because it doesn't fit owns selfish opinion about what would should be doesn't fit the sandbox theme either.

 

The only potential valid argument against a non-aggro server has to do with a cost benefit analysis. Will enough players want such a place to justify the costs of making it, and (imo) there will definitely be enough.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

-1  This is a PvE game, that means player versus environment.  Take away the aggros and not much environment to fight.  I'll admit that Rolf needs to readjust the numbers on the servers (we currently have way too much out there), I do not think that making a safe world would hold players in the long run.  How much challenge is there if you can do everything safely?  Within 3 months you would master enough skills and build a big enough village to keep yourself going forever.  And that's when the boredom would set in.  Where would be the need to get really good at fighting, why would you need heavy armor, or really good weapons?  No, the world has to be out to get you or it's just no fun.

[xNoTimeLeftx 0]

I don't understand why people can't accept that other players may have a different opinion about what's fun (Ronnie is a prime example).

 

Games become successful by offering experiences that fulfill current and potential customer desires. Telling folks how to play is not in the spirit of a sandbox game. Denying folks the opportunity to enjoy a different type of gaming environment just because it doesn't fit owns selfish opinion about what would should be doesn't fit the sandbox theme either.

 

The only potential valid argument against a non-aggro server has to do with a cost benefit analysis. Will enough players want such a place to justify the costs of making it, and (imo) there will definitely be enough.

Once again, I agree with you

[Jarosz 189]

-1  This is a PvE game, that means player versus environment.  Take away the aggros and not much environment to fight.  I'll admit that Rolf needs to readjust the numbers on the servers (we currently have way too much out there), I do not think that making a safe world would hold players in the long run.  How much challenge is there if you can do everything safely?  Within 3 months you would master enough skills and build a big enough village to keep yourself going forever.  And that's when the boredom would set in.  Where would be the need to get really good at fighting, why would you need heavy armor, or really good weapons?  No, the world has to be out to get you or it's just no fun.

 

For you.  You can still play on the PvE server.  Nothing is stopping you from that.  No one is saying Kill PvE.

 

For a person who does not want PvE nor PvP (guess what, they wouldn't need to make weapons and armor ... Tools/enchants are still the most frequently sold objects on PvE/PvP servers)

 

We could treat the character mechanics on the Non-PvE/PvP servers much like we treat Epic.  Any player could play on the server, and have a different character skill set on the PvP/PvE server.  Therefore, someone learning the game could learn the ropes on the Non-Aggro Server, and use the same account name (different skill set) on the PvP/PvE/Epic server.  Then, once they are knowledgeable on the actual mechanics of the game, they can go for more challenging Environments if they actually want to.

 

This would not dilute the player base, it would only increase it by providing more play styles in the Wurm Engine.  as a player could chose to play on any other server at any given time (minus the servers that aren't attached... nothing is attached to Epic cluster, but you can still play on it from a PvE server because of the character account mechanics)  This server would not be "attached" to any clusters.  It would just be another Wurmverse like Epic.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

For you.  You can still play on the PvE server.  Nothing is stopping you from that.  No one is saying Kill PvE.

 

For a person who does not want PvE nor PvP (guess what, they wouldn't need to make weapons and armor ... Tools/enchants are still the most frequently sold objects on PvE/PvP servers)

 

We could treat the character mechanics on the Non-PvE/PvP servers much like we treat Epic.  Any player could play on the server, and have a different character skill set on the PvP/PvE server.  Therefore, someone learning the game could learn the ropes on the Non-Aggro Server, and use the same account name (different skill set) on the PvP/PvE/Epic server.  Then, once they are knowledgeable on the actual mechanics of the game, they can go for more challenging Environments if they actually want to.

 

This would not dilute the player base, it would only increase it by providing more play styles in the Wurm Engine.  as a player could chose to play on any other server at any given time (minus the servers that aren't attached... nothing is attached to Epic cluster, but you can still play on it from a PvE server because of the character account mechanics)  This server would not be "attached" to any clusters.  It would just be another Wurmverse like Epic.

You missed my main point.  A server like that would be BORING.  Sure, lots of players would start there, and about 3 months later they would be bored and quit, leaving behind an abandoned village with a year upkeep.  It happens too often already on the PVE servers, this server would be much worse.

 

The game is about survival.  Or, to paraphrase a QOTD, this isn't a game about survival, it's about starving to death in the wilderness and being eaten by wolves.  No, the game isn't for everyone.  And Rolf should never try to make it a game everyone wants, it is an impossible task.

 

And we have to remember the lessons from the GV server.  Back then you started on GV, a non-prem only server where it was fairly safe to live, with only bears at worst to deal with.  It killed subscriptions.  Folks played for free, never saw what else they could do, and once they built a settlement did not want to move to another server and start over.  And after a while of playing, they got bored and quit, never knowing how much more they could have done.  A similar situation would arise here.  Even as prem, they would not see the full challenges of a PVE or PVP server.  They would get bored, and yet be unwilling to move and rebuild, and so they will quit, much sooner than if they had started on a PVE or PVP server.  You gotta be challenged in order to stay interested.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Vroomfondel

[Jarosz 189]

Theres maybe 10posts since "release" 6months ago of players going on about dying a lot. And as I have said before, I start new characters every now and then run them off to a random place to survive with nothing more then the starting tools every other new character has. If you drop those logs or shardes you'll be able to out run everything to get away to safety and try to circle around back to where you were building. Its really not that hard. PvE is carebear game play, PvN(Player vs nothing) to me is hand holding.

 

Have you ever heard of the concept "tip of the iceberg" ? Its where only a few stories bubble to the forum, but it doesn't mean there is a small instance of players quitting because of PvE.  If anything, you have a lot of players who come play wurm who never use the Forums.  A TON of players who join the game, looking to have fun, are scarred away by the harsh environment (PvE death, 100% lost inventory)... and avoid the forums for the same reason "Harsh Community"

 

I know in Minecraft, whenever I start a new game, get all my resources together, have diamond armor/tools and fall into a lava pit... I stop playing immediately.  I don't pick it up again for another week or so, I haven't played in months really.

 

In Wurm, when I started in the last Beta, I almost quit for good.  I had started setting up my camp, was looking for iron (because I had read the wiki on how to make tools) and I was killed by a rat.  I was then killed by a wolf.  and by the time I had finally made my way back to my camp, everything was looted... This was all because I was trying to make an anvil to make nails to make a home to protect my stuff (because I had read the wiki)  It took me 2-3 weeks to give the game another chance.  Not many people are giving Wurm another chance.  And they are having a harder time adjusting to the increased animal spawn. 

 

I started in an established area... that had no trees.  I had to adventure out to find trees that I could make a house with, I settled with a maple tree grove that was 10 minutes from New Town (because it was the only place with any trees that you could make planks from without losing yourself in the wilderness).  I then left that area after successfully making my first house because Maple trees were junk for carpentry and I had no idea how to create a mine to look for iron. Add a few more deaths along the way... the only reason I was able to find my corpse is because of real world land navigation skills I learned in the military (and the fact that you spawned back then with a compass that was part of the character).

 

The game became harder to keep existing players interested.  and it is at the cost of new players.  They need a "no-aggro" server... or at least a "no-aggro" learning area (the tutorial server does not serve this purpose)

[Jarosz 189]

You missed my main point.  A server like that would be BORING.  Sure, lots of players would start there, and about 3 months later they would be bored and quit, leaving behind an abandoned village with a year upkeep.  It happens too often already on the PVE servers, this server would be much worse.

 

The game is about survival.  Or, to paraphrase a QOTD, this isn't a game about survival, it's about starving to death in the wilderness and being eaten by wolves.  No, the game isn't for everyone.  And Rolf should never try to make it a game everyone wants, it is an impossible task.

 

And we have to remember the lessons from the GV server.  Back then you started on GV, a non-prem only server where it was fairly safe to live, with only bears at worst to deal with.  It killed subscriptions.  Folks played for free, never saw what else they could do, and once they built a settlement did not want to move to another server and start over.  And after a while of playing, they got bored and quit, never knowing how much more they could have done.  A similar situation would arise here.  Even as prem, they would not see the full challenges of a PVE or PVP server.  They would get bored, and yet be unwilling to move and rebuild, and so they will quit, much sooner than if they had started on a PVE or PVP server.  You gotta be challenged in order to stay interested.

 

 

You are apparently missing my point.  Rolf can make "Wurmverses" in the Wurm Engine that can attract many different play styles.  The Current Wurmverse is a survival mode.  YOU would be bored in a non-PvE server.  That is your opinion.

 

I played a newb character on GV.  and I died multiple times because I couldn't make a healing salve potent enough to save myself.  And when I did, a rat reopened the wound... this took 2 hours to tend to until I eventually died.  Its the PvE that scares people away from Wurm.  A very few amount who try the game stick around.  It behooves Rolf to attract people to the game (the world he has made) with a less hostile environment.  Let the player decide if they want more challenging environments after (GV was till very hostile)

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jarosz

[Butoxy 30]

Minecraft is a good game, my 6 year old can play it and he can understand most of it on his own, he especially likes creative mode because survival mode is a bit hard for him to manage on his own unless I help him set up a base first.

 

I've let him play Wurm a bit, mostly on one of my deeds, on Serenity and only when I'm online and close by. I can tell you, Wurm is not easy. It's not intuitive, the Wiki is in English, he can read Swedish perfectly well, but not much English yet. The simplest things are hard, you really have to read the wiki to find out to do anything and he ends up asking be a million questions.  

 

<snip>

 

This is strictly a curiosity question, I have never tried it the other way since I don't read languages other than english.  Does the following link correctly translate the web pages?  If so maybe this ability could be useful for people that aren't aware it exists?

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=en&tl=sv&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wurmpedia.com%2F&act=url

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

You are apparently missing my point.  Rolf can make "Wurmverses" in the Wurm Engine that can attract many different play styles.  The Current Wurmverse is a survival mode.  YOU would be bored in a non-PvE server.  That is your opinion.

 

I played a newb character on GV.  and I died multiple times because I couldn't make a healing salve potent enough to save myself.  And when I did, a rat reopened the wound... this took 2 hours to tend to until I eventually died.  Its the PvE that scares people away from Wurm.  A very few amount who try the game stick around.  It behooves Rolf to attract people to the game (the world he has made) with a less hostile environment.  Let the player decide if they want more challenging environments after (GV was till very hostile)

 

You are talking about creating different games.  There would have to be restrictions to players trying to cross from 1 type to the other.  Just like now, where the PVP group does not want players to 'skill up in safety' on the PVE servers, the PVE players would not want to see high craftsmen coming from the 'safe' server to the PVE servers.

 

It also means Rolf keeping separate code for each style, and Rolf has stated repeatedly that it is something he will not do.  I know, he already does that somewhat currently with PVP and PVE, but a 3rd style would be too much to get him to do, as it would force completely different codes for each style over time.

[Jarosz 189]

You are talking about creating different games.  There would have to be restrictions to players trying to cross from 1 type to the other.  Just like now, where the PVP group does not want players to 'skill up in safety' on the PVE servers, the PVE players would not want to see high craftsmen coming from the 'safe' server to the PVE servers.

 

It also means Rolf keeping separate code for each style, and Rolf has stated repeatedly that it is something he will not do.  I know, he already does that somewhat currently with PVP and PVE, but a 3rd style would be too much to get him to do, as it would force completely different codes for each style over time.

 

Please reread my tl;dr posts.  I suggested we handle a non-aggro server like we handle Epic.  It doesn't get attached to any clusters, but people would be able to have a "2nd character with the same name" to play on PvE/PvP/Epic with a different skill set (like we do for Epic)

 

Epic is a different game than the Freedom Clusters.  It is not something Rolf can't do, nor hasn't done already.  Its just a different play style (like Epic)

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Please reread my tl;dr posts.  I suggested we handle a non-aggro server like we handle Epic.  It doesn't get attached to any clusters, but people would be able to have a "2nd character with the same name" to play on PvE/PvP/Epic with a different skill set (like we do for Epic)

 

Epic is a different game than the Freedom Clusters.  It is not something Rolf can't do, nor hasn't done already.  Its just a different play style (like Epic)

Ok, but this idea still changes the basis of the game too much.  What it would be is Farmville with a Wurm skin.  And I just don't see Rolf going for that.  He has always made it obvious that he wants this to be a PVP game.  While he does recognize that PVE is more popular, I don't think he will ever go PVnothing.  You are supposed to struggle to survive.

 

You also missed my point about subscriptions.  A safe server would attract too many non-prem players that would never pay up.  And a prem player would likely not pay to play on a safe server, so saying it is prem only would be useless.  We went through that once already with GV, don't see any reason to make the same mistake again.

 

You want to make suggestions about the numbers of aggros and their distribution, I can see that.  The numbers now are too high for new players and too many heavy aggros show up near the spawn points.  But please, don't make suggestions to make a totally safe server.  It will not happen.

[Jarosz 189]

Ok, but this idea still changes the basis of the game too much.  What it would be is Farmville with a Wurm skin.  And I just don't see Rolf going for that.  He has always made it obvious that he wants this to be a PVP game.  While he does recognize that PVE is more popular, I don't think he will ever go PVnothing.  You are supposed to struggle to survive.

 

You also missed my point about subscriptions.  A safe server would attract too many non-prem players that would never pay up.  And a prem player would likely not pay to play on a safe server, so saying it is prem only would be useless.  We went through that once already with GV, don't see any reason to make the same mistake again.

 

You want to make suggestions about the numbers of aggros and their distribution, I can see that.  The numbers now are too high for new players and too many heavy aggros show up near the spawn points.  But please, don't make suggestions to make a totally safe server.  It will not happen.

 

 

Never said it would be Premium only.  Anyone could play on it.  I think its the missing link to getting people able to survive on their own in the harsher environments.  Rolf said he never wanted to make the over all game less difficult.  He provided an even harsher Environment (Epic) to appease the PVP/Role-playing diehards, and changed how accounts worked so that people could try it risk free.  By adding this server, he doesn't change the overall game.  He just creates a different play style that can't pollute the other servers.

 

Guess what?  people like creative modes.  And people will pay for premium to get faster action timers.  F2P players would most likely stick on Freedom cluster if they understand the game better, as they will have more opportunities.  This server might have more frequent turn over of players setting up and disbanding to go to Freedom/Chaos/Epic... but the key is, they are staying in the over all game, not quitting.  I would rather see 20% of those who quit now stick around on a non-agro server than see 100% of them never play wurm again.

 

If Rolf stuck to his guns, he would have less than 500 subscribers... as he would have kept Full PVP on all servers.  He didn't though, he listened to his majority and kept "Non-PVP" on the "Freedom" servers.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jarosz

[Ronnie 64]

Wurms not for everyone,  no need to change it for the handful

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Never said it would be Premium only.  Anyone could play on it.  I think its the missing link to getting people able to survive on their own in the harsher environments.  Rolf said he never wanted to make the over all game less difficult.  He provided an even harsher Environment (Epic) to appease the PVP/Role-playing diehards, and changed how accounts worked so that people could try it risk free.  By adding this server, he doesn't change the overall game.  He just creates a different play style that can't pollute the other servers.

 

Guess what?  people like creative modes.  And people will pay for premium to get faster action timers.  F2P players would most likely stick on Freedom cluster if they understand the game better, as they will have more opportunities.  This server might have more frequent turn over of players setting up and disbanding to go to Freedom/Chaos/Epic... but the key is, they are staying in the over all game, not quitting.  I would rather see 20% of those who quit now stick around on a non-agro server than see 100% of them never play wurm again.

 

If Rolf stuck to his guns, he would have less than 500 subscribers... as he would have kept Full PVP on all servers.  He didn't though, he listened to his majority and kept "Non-PVP" on the "Freedom" servers.

 

As I tried to point out (and you missed, again), whether is is prem only or open to non-prems, it would be a disaster.  Do you remember GV?  It was very much what you are asking for.  And free players found it good enough, they did not bother to go prem.  So if you allow free players, they would fill the server and not be paying for it.  Very few player would go ahead and pay for prem, as the extra skills would not be needed.  While it may get more to play, this would kill subscriptions, not increase them.  Why should Rolf open a separate server that will only cost him money and never start to pay off?  You don't repeat past mistakes just hoping it will come out different this time.

 

Separate skillsets and gain rates don't work well either, which is part of why the numbers on Epic are always low.  Some players go between both clusters and have separate skillsets, but that is a lot of work so most choose which cluster they really want and stay there after a while.

[joedobo 1,187]

Assuming that such a change would only result in a handful of memberships. I disagree that a non-aggro server would be a bunch of free players. There are many players who simply don't like fighting. Having a chance to do >>>>>>>>PREMIUM<<<<<<< level construction and crafting in an environment that doesn't have fighting would appeal to many existent and potential new customers.

 

Someone mentioned Farmville...yea that game only has a handful of players, huh? 

[joedobo 1,187]

The non-aggro server wouldn't require any special developer attention other than an initial change to lair type spawn and providing a source for furs. ClubAB could take all the money earned from this server and dump it into something else.

[joedobo 1,187]

GV had mobs so we can't really use it as a comparison for why a non-aggro server wouldn't fetch memberships. The desire to build fast, bigger and better is what drives memberships.