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Elen

Remove Silver ~ Add Player Made Currency.

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Oh boy, here we go!

I would love to see Wurm removed from the silver currency. This would put Wurm in a unique position for a computer game and push it yet again beyond the normal theme park towards a real sandbox. The goal of this post is not traders, so please don’t derail on that. The goal is to further the sandbox environment by putting one more thing directly in player control.

The question is, how could we do it ? Here is one idea I’ve hammered out.

Many numbered points will have a bullet under it to explain the ‘why’ of the number. It’s a bit of a read.

I will add a section at the bottom of this post for my answers to frequently asked questions/comments. As always, forgive any formatting errors.

Imagine silver as it is now doesn't exist. All currency in game is player made.

Out of Game ~~

1.) Silver cannot be purchased at the shop.

  • Required obviously for the 'remove silver' part of this idea.
2.) Traders are removed. Compensation of 50s worth of the below mentioned account ‘credits’ given to offset purchase cost.
  • Fair is fair, they paid 50s to buy it afterall.
3.) Cash-shop items are handled directly with RL money instead. All can be put on merchants.
  • This will promote RL money purchases going to Rolf and allow people to move real money to in game money easily.
4.) Premium time cannot be purchased in game except via ‘Premium Tokens’. See #5.

5.) New cash shop item: Premium token. Gives one month of premium. Can be sold and put on merchants.

  • This will allow people to move real money to in game money easily and keep the market available for in game purchase of premium time. Also, keeps Rolf making money when people buy premium in game.
6.) Deed upkeep can paid via cash shop, gifted, and purchased in game using player-made currency (at whatever cost Rolf feels appropriate).
  • Keeps Rolf's money coming in both directly via cash shop and gifts and indirectly through the removal of player-currency.
7.) Silver is removed from accounts and account ‘credits’ given that can be turned in for premium time, deed upkeep, and deed worth (see below).
  • This will allow for Rolf to set initial relative worth for player based currency and ensures no one loses any net value on their accounts in the currency transition.
In Game ~~

8.) All mayors can stamp coins out of gold. This could also be a permission.

  • This puts currency into sandbox mode ! (The Goal) The next several #s are gonna be a bit dry mechanics btw.
9.) The gold coin would bear the name of the town it was minted as well as the description wanted by the deed and the worth of the coin.
  • Example: ‘Tap Dance Doubloon (100 worth)’. (obviously starter deeds wouldn’t generate worth, but it’s convenient for example purposes)
10.) The worth of the coin would be determined when it was minted by the mayor.

11.) The coins minted by the mayor decrease the ‘worth’ of the deed.

12.) A deed generates worth based on its size and how many actions are performed on deed. It would be a ratio of about 90% deed size to 10% action timer length.

  • This will make more active and more expensive deeds ‘pay out’ more and mitigate worth-farming.
  • Example: If a deed has 100 worth and the deed's mayor decided to print coins worth 20, he/she would be able to print 5 of them, and his deed’s stored worth would be back to zero; or he could print a single coin worth 100, or anything in between.
13.) Disbanded deeds’ minted coins would slowly lose worth (1 or 2 a week). Coin name would reflect that the deed is gone.
  • This would promote deed longevity and provides some additional long-term inflation control.
  • Example: ‘Tap Dance Doubloon (disbanded) (98 worth)’
14.) Merchants are changed to have you set the price in 'worth' and accept any type of coins.
  • Required obviously for the 'remove silver' part of this idea.
15.) Merchants give change in the appropriate currency for the deed they are placed on. If not on a deed, merchant is exact change only.
  • This one is pretty self-explanitory. Also allows a method for non-mayors to recycle defunct currency.
16.) Merchants placed on a deed and by the deed-holder would have an option to convert coins received into raw worth for the village.
  • This would allow recycling of worth from defunct deeds by active players.
17.) Any coins can be decommissioned by a mayor to add raw worth to the village.
  • This would allow recycling of worth from defunct deeds by active players.
18.) Coins put into the player's bank would be converted to worth value and could be withdrawn from any token in the appropriate currency for where they are withdrawn.
  • Another method for non-mayors to recycle defunct currency.
FAQ ~~

See next post.

Edited by Elen
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Here be the FAQ

... armies of alts grinding whatever has the shortest action timer...

Also, how would any citizens be guaranteed a portion of the 'worth' generated?

Worth gain would be based ~90% on deed size (money to Rolf) and the remaining ~10% on action timer total length. Yes though, more active deeds would generate more wealth.

The citizens couldn't be guaranteeded a thing. Not different than now.

...removing silver from the shop would cut wurms profits beyond belief...

You will note that in the suggestion are things players would buy with real money, and then sell for ingame money.

Go make ye own game

I did, its a tabletop pen and paper game. Modern setting with zombies and magic and stuff. In beta testing now.

Then you'd have armies of alts grinding anything, probably longest action timer so you could leave it longer before alt tabbing back to the client.

So lets say the size of the village would get it 80 worth and they grind grind gind to get another 10%, which would be 8 worth. They bar can be set low enough that a casual village can hit the cap too, thus removing the desire to mega-grind for no additional benefit.

Edited by Elen

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Result of above idea = armies of alts grinding whatever has the shortest action timer...


 


Also, how would any citizens be guaranteed a portion of the 'worth' generated? The mayor could just make off with it all. Oh, and what if there's one person who grinds loads, and other players who mostly don't even log in, the person who's always in-game will be a bit put out if the result of all the hard work is either split evenly, or not split at all to any of them.


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Lol, was just about to make a comment on your post in the other thread but felt it was not along the threads path.


 


This would definately be an interesting direction for the game.


 


The biggest problem I see is that it would encourage grinding actions for currency sake rather than adding true value to base that currency on.


 


PVP servers would have a difficult time with this because RL currency is really the main way they can catch up to older deeds.


 


Also, I would bet a significant part of the population play because they can in effect P2W, either by using RL currency or by abusing the trader system.  When confronted by actually having to perform actions to gain value, I think many would leave.


 


I will give you a small +1 because I liked the idea at start, but the more I think of it, the more I dont think it can work the way the game is now.


Edited by Pollo

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I'm seeing all kinds of problems with the idea but im working right now and cant type them up :P plus i might be misunderstanding some. =] I think the current system is fine and quite sandboxy... id rather get some more servers and people playing :P to make rolf more money... :P


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-1    What a joke....  Sorry but removing silver from the shop would cut wurms profits beyond belief... lol Monthly costs would have to hit 20e a month(not 2months) to support such a silly idea...


 


 


And player made coins would be more Theme park then sandbox seeing as you can have endless supply as long as your willing to put time into grinding it out were as wurm, how deep your pocket is....


Edited by Ronnie

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Result of above idea = armies of alts grinding whatever has the shortest action timer...

 

Also, how would any citizens be guaranteed a portion of the 'worth' generated? The mayor could just make off with it all. Oh, and what if there's one person who grinds loads, and other players who mostly don't even log in, the person who's always in-game will be a bit put out if the result of all the hard work is either split evenly, or not split at all to any of them.

 

Adding mention of suggested ratio of deed size to grinding, effect on worth and action timer length.

The citizens couldn't be guaranteeded a thing. Not different than now.

 

Moving to FAQ

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This would rely on too many changes on how wurm works, I honestly dont see it implemented, regardless of it being a good or bad idea.


 


I do think, that aiming for something more tangible as a test would be required.   Maybe an alternative currency, 100% player driven and managed, to see how viable is using coins that hold no direct RL value.


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Adding mention of suggested ratio of deed size to grinding, effect on worth and action timer length.

The citizens couldn't be guaranteeded a thing. Not different than now.

 

Moving to FAQ

Then you'd have armies of alts grinding anything, probably longest action timer so you could leave it longer before alt tabbing back to the client.

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you can already "print" your own "currency"

make items, sell them, simple, you earn silver

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no thanks, it works fine the way it is


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Then you'd have armies of alts grinding anything, probably longest action timer so you could leave it longer before alt tabbing back to the client.

So lets say the size of the village would get it 80 worth and they grind grind gind to get another 10%, which would be 8 worth. The bar can be set low enough that a casual village can hit the cap too, thus removing the desire to mega-grind for no additional benefit.

FAQ updated with more stuffs !

Edited by Elen

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So lets say the size of the village would get it 80 worth and they grind grind gind to get another 10%, which would be 8 worth. The bar can be set low enough that a casual village can hit the cap too, thus removing the desire to mega-grind for no additional benefit.

FAQ updated with more stuffs !

But you said the mayor would then print money, which would lower the worth, and you start again, so the mayor would just print money as soon as (or just before) the cap was hit, meaning that deed would still be pumping out cash. Unless there's a limit to how much a deed can provide which is purely based on deed size, or something arbitrary. the trouble is that would be tied to how much RL money the player can afford to put in to the deed, so we're back at paying to get in game money.

 

Incidentally, only people who pay with RL money would be able to print this money because you have to own a deed in the first place - bought with RL money,

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But you said the mayor would then print money, which would lower the worth, and you start again, so the mayor would just print money as soon as (or just before) the cap was hit, meaning that deed would still be pumping out cash. Unless there's a limit to how much a deed can provide which is purely based on deed size, or something arbitrary. the trouble is that would be tied to how much RL money the player can afford to put in to the deed, so we're back at paying to get in game money.

Incidentally, only people who pay with RL money would be able to print this money because you have to own a deed in the first place - bought with RL money,


The cap could be weekly, monthly, or w/e worked best. Yes, really it will still come down to RL money for in game, but its more sandboxxy (complicated).

3.) Cash-shop items are handled directly with RL money instead. All can be put on merchants.
6.) Deed upkeep can paid via cash shop, gifted, and purchased in game using player-made currency

So a freebie could still get a deed and print money without ever touching RL money. Edited by Elen

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No player group should be given control of the whole games money supply.. big fat -1.


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Got stuff to go do, will update FAQ tomorrow. Keep em comming.


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Cool sounding, but I couldent support it at all. Way to much to go wrong, and overal I don't see it ever working. With respect, I give it a huge -1

I like that you can up with it though, it does sound unique :) - just not for wurm, couldent work, and much to big of a change for anyone to handle

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wouldn't work unless we could jail fraudsters.


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I'd rather hear specifics on what you dislike so much about the current system and come up with ways to make that better... not start from scratch. rolf has personally made about 500 dollars from me... and i use traders as well... i spend a lot of time "grinding" just to make stuff to sell i probably spend close to a quarter of my time doing that. my upkeep... for all characters and deeds is close to 85silver upkeep per month... so all that time i spend just making items to "abuse" traders as you say goes right back into the economy. Extra goes to the less fortunate new players that want to grind a skill for some silver. it seems the current system covers the intended points of an economy gives people goals. I don't think anything is running rampant. prices are staying generally the same after 9 years ;p like wow... any other game... wow... diablo... UO... etc prices get inflated really badly... whatever rolf has done appears to be genius to me. =] why break the system? :P 


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I'd rather hear specifics on what you dislike so much about the current system and come up with ways to make that better... not start from scratch. rolf has personally made about 500 dollars from me... and i use traders as well... i spend a lot of time "grinding" just to make stuff to sell i probably spend close to a quarter of my time doing that. my upkeep... for all characters and deeds is close to 85silver upkeep per month... so all that time i spend just making items to "abuse" traders as you say goes right back into the economy. Extra goes to the less fortunate new players that want to grind a skill for some silver. it seems the current system covers the intended points of an economy gives people goals. I don't think anything is running rampant. prices are staying generally the same after 9 years ;p like wow... any other game... wow... diablo... UO... etc prices get inflated really badly... whatever rolf has done appears to be genius to me. =] why break the system? :P

 

Unfortunately, prices aren't going to stay the same. They are going to start deflating.

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