F2P Or P2P?

[atazs 965]

^ The current system is not great otherwise the game would be far more popular. You can cater to more people by separating shards into things such as

1, normal wurm

2, exp gain +25%, action bar rates reduced by 25%(as an example)

3, F2P only shard

4, premium only shards

The 1 thing which has made this game popular to a small community is the 1 thing which also holds this game back and thats time investment, you do not need to ruin it for 1 group without pleasing the other group and at the end of the day more players = more money = better development, there are reasons why a sandbox/building/survival MMO only has 1000 active players, this is more to do with game design rather than F2P or P2P.

F2P is far too restrictive in terms of skill caps and those same skill caps limit hugely the amount of players which would even consider trying to the game out, myself as an example i only finally bit the bullet so to speak because i was bored and thought why not. I had known about the game for years and its a style of game i love, yet the restrictions put me off from trying it regardless of the fact i would have no issue dropping money into the game.

What i would i do is remove the 20 skill cap and raise it to 50, but back to design again due to bad design choices and the ability to earn premium in game you are stuck not allowing this, which is where the server shard segregation of rules comes into play.

There are some very serious reasons why the game is not popular, going fully to F2P or fully P2P changes none of them and i dont think its the correct place for me to go into them, the above would be the best way to increase the user base and new unique players, but it wont change the fact the game will appeal to a very small amount of players due to some issues with the game itself, rather than the fact of its genre and time sink design

I am sorry but if you didn't pay because the restrictiosn were too much yet you would have had no problem paying then thats really retarded and shows that you dont care about this game. If you didn't notice that we had a massive increase of players and premium players ever since 1.0 came out. The fact that this game is barely advertised is the main reason why it's not really growing. That and the fact that this game is not appealing to your average MMO player. Please don't talk about things that you have no idea about.

1. We already have this?

2. It's called Epic and wurm does not need this on the other servers.

3. We already had this and didn't work.

4. Same as above and it didn't work. Now its only elevation

Why do you call the servers shards though?

Edited May 4, 2013 by atazs

[Eversor 1]

Call it a shard because thats usually what you would call something in this system, ie freedom has a group of servers under 1 banner, i have no idea if it is in fact an actual shard or not, just a common name for this sort of system regardless of if it is or not.

I thank you for calling me retarded, but what truly is retarded is a response like that, Wurm was actually advertised on RPS and PC gamer which is why there was a spike in interest. You do not have a game active for 8 years and have 1k people in it just because the masses as you assume do not like this style of game, advertising will help but the main issue is the design of the game systems. You guys sound stuck in the mud rather than what is best for the game only thinking of your own self interests and if this is whats been going on and the devs have listened its clear thats what the issue is, no i dont especially care about the game i have played it for a few days which allows me to speak impartially and with my experience in the games industry and amount of years i have played games for i feel i have a good take on what makes a game unpopular.

Its like you do not understand what i said so i shall say it again

1 you cater to more than 1 group of people who dont like change because they want their money making game exactly where its at

2 you have a server which is NOT pvp only which has increased exp rates and lower action bar rates

3 you have a f2p server, the only reason you gave is you want slaves to do your dirty work ;-)

4 the premium only

This allows different rule sets for each so you can draw in more people, as you say not everyone is interested in a game where it takes you 100 hours to build a small house, raising the skill cap on F2P is only an issue because you can buy in game premium time, which if you read is what i said about the design of the game itself being the issue not if it should be 1 or the other or whats best, its the fundamental design of some game systems which is the issue and indeed of the population issue

also no i dont need to stop talking about things because your highness says i should and also assumes that i know nothing, people like you

atazs

are the issues with games like this, snobby close minded and rude

Like i say, the issue and questions shouldnt be about F2P or P2P it should be about what makes the game unpopular and what issues need improvement because without that whatever price plan the game has means nothing

Edited May 4, 2013 by Eversor

[Zuuma 42]

It's a question of scale, and where Rolf sets the bar. Code Club's profit and overall financial turnover has increased quite dramatically over the last few years according to Code Club's financial statements (you can find a compilation of some of that information HERE (Swedish source)). Wurm can, and has, grown without necessarily competing on the same market as Minecraft.

Annual financial turnover of Code Club (Retreiver Business)

Personally I don't think that's true at all. While they may both fall into the sandbox genre the level Sim City and Wurm operate on is vastly different and they don't share the same fan base because they appeal by design to vastly different skill sets and preferences. But then again, I classify Wurm as a challenging fantasy-survival MMO with some sandbox elements, not a sandbox management game.

Again, Wurm by design renders its target audience narrow. While there are lots of small things that I think could be developed or changed I don't support changing that overall design to appeal to a significantly wider taste. Call it selfish if you want; in the end what matters is where Rolf wants to take Wurm.

True, the "Rolf dream" is part of problem. We have 3 in each 4 players/accounts online in PVE servers but the dev focus is the PVP. And maybe that can explain why Wurm hitted some peak after the 1.0 and is going downhill now. Or someone think the price increase can bring more players in the short term?

Any business need to listen what the customer wants to survive/grow.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Zuuma

[Eversor 1]

I'm confused by your suggestions.

But if you were to implement them all at once you'd divide the playerbase more.Having people who have played for years willing to spend some time helping out the new guys is a huuuge +1. This can be answering questions, helping building projects, supplying tools & materials. Intermingling f2p with the other guys gives the f2p a chance to earn silver. If they had their own server that opportunity wouldn't be there. So I'm not quite sure where you're coming from with this.

I just reply to this separately

By design the game seems to need division which is why there are so many servers already, without it there would be no space due to deeds, or atleast a lack of desirable space. Adding more servers is obviously dependant on population, im not saying add 100 new servers today lol.

Just because of a F2P only server does not mean they can not get help because just like as happens now the higher level people help just as they would on F2P, i did not say that all F2P should all be on only 1 server and thats it, only that they can have their own server such as a test bed, would be a better introduction for me atleast than what i and others i have spoken to and seen in game.

But should F2P be able to gain silver? thats what i was saying by bad design it limits what you are able to do with the game, having them on their own server stops this and with the skill cap raised gives them something. Runescape would be a good example of p2p vs f2p, i have not played in years so it could of changed when it changed owners

It also shows that the documentation of the game is poor, i had no idea that there was a premium only server, the whole experience of choosing what server to play on was a poor experience as was the tutorial, but thats another thread lol

The are not many players becouse the "mass" likes fast-paced, easy games which do not require time investment. That's why wurm can't be so popular.

F2P restrictions are good. If you don't want to pay you can have a great time ( i was playing for abour or more than year with F2P ). Moreover you can invest time to gain practically everything from few coins to traders,premium,deeds.

Raising cap to 50 will be absolutely insane. F2Ps will start bashing, griefing and so on. Also rectrictions won't help becouse less players will buy premium.

Buy or play that's an option to become premium. If you just don't want to benefit wurm (investing time and making goods for it's economy or paying with real cash for money) then don't play.

I dont agree, i have been a part of many gaming communities which long for sandbox MMO's, i would actually say its also wrong as many of these so called action games have just as much grind elements, only you are not staring at the floor 90% of the time while doing it ;-)

50 was as an example and can be F2P server only ruleset,bashing and greifing assumes that everyone is a jerk, which they are not and that comes down to game design rather than poor attitudes

True, the "Rolf dream" is part of problem. We have 3 in each 4 players/accounts online in PVE servers but the dev focus is the PVP. And maybe that can explain why Wurm hitted some peak after the 1.0 and is going downhill now. Or someone think the price increase can bring more players in the short term?

Any business need to listen what the customer wants to survive/grow.

This is another issue with design that i learnt very quickly, lets focus on the PVP when the combat is worst thing in this game, makes about as much sense as half the other stuff in wurm

Edited May 4, 2013 by Eversor

[Zuuma 42]

It also shows that the documentation of the game is poor, i had no idea that there was a premium only server, the whole experience of choosing what server to play on was a poor experience as was the tutorial, but thats another thread lol

But it is a feature.

And no FAQ in home page, only in wiki.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Zuuma

[atazs 965]

Call it a shard because thats usually what you would call something in this system, ie freedom has a group of servers under 1 banner, i have no idea if it is in fact an actual shard or not, just a common name for this sort of system regardless of if it is or not.

I thank you for calling me retarded, but what truly is retarded is a response like that, Wurm was actually advertised on RPS and PC gamer which is why there was a spike in interest. You do not have a game active for 8 years and have 1k people in it just because the masses as you assume do not like this style of game, advertising will help but the main issue is the design of the game systems. You guys sound stuck in the mud rather than what is best for the game only thinking of your own self interests and if this is whats been going on and the devs have listened its clear thats what the issue is, no i dont especially care about the game i have played it for a few days which allows me to speak impartially and with my experience in the games industry and amount of years i have played games for i feel i have a good take on what makes a game unpopular.

Its like you do not understand what i said so i shall say it again

1 you cater to more than 1 group of people who dont like change because they want their money making game exactly where its at

2 you have a server which is NOT pvp only which has increased exp rates and lower action bar rates

3 you have a f2p server, the only reason you gave is you want slaves to do your dirty work ;-)

4 the premium only

This allows different rule sets for each so you can draw in more people, as you say not everyone is interested in a game where it takes you 100 hours to build a small house, raising the skill cap on F2P is only an issue because you can buy in game premium time, which if you read is what i said about the design of the game itself being the issue not if it should be 1 or the other or whats best, its the fundamental design of some game systems which is the issue and indeed of the population issue

also no i dont need to stop talking about things because your highness says i should and also assumes that i know nothing, people like you

atazs

are the issues with games like this, snobby close minded and rude

Like i say, the issue and questions shouldnt be about F2P or P2P it should be about what makes the game unpopular and what issues need improvement because without that whatever price plan the game has means nothing

Maybe i didn't word my sentence properly. I wasnt calling you a retard i was calling that reason retarded. By the way you seem to forget Rolf in all this. You make it sound like we are the reason the game is not advancing. Why is that? Why do you think Rolf isn't changing this system or hasn't changed this system in the past 10 years? Because he wants to make a game like this. As for 1. 2. 3. and 4. you couldn't be more wrong. Besides from your posts it seems you don't like this game and want instant gratification. What you also seem to be missing is that oldest server on this freedom "shard" was made by notch back in 2007. Now adding a PvE server with increased skillgain would destroy the whole point of wurm and work that people has put into these servers with the current skillgain. The reason it was added to the epic "shard" is to allow people to catch up in PvP faster. The game is doing fine and has been doing fine in the past 10 years which is more than the timelapse of an average MMO. If you don't like the way it is, then make a suggestion thread of things you want to change, instead of blaming all this on the playerbase. And we might be rude and snotty but thats because we hate people who try this game for a few days then come in here trying to make game breaking suggestions to a game we have been playing for years and years now and find it fine and has no idea what he is talking about or dead wrong in most part After all in a few days you probably learned everything know this game in and out right?

Every year more and more people try this game and its improving. If rolf wanted to change the current system then he would have done it by now. This game is a long term game, you need to play for years and years to be good, and things take time. That is why there are people here still playing since 2003, because they have something to do, unlike games like WoW where you reach max lvl, do things for a month then quit because you ran out of things to do. That is where most modern MMO fails. One last thing:

Both the OP and you should know (how could you know? You only played a few days... See where i am going?) that there are people who spent more than 10k euro on this game over the past few years. Ive heard stories where someone spent 2k in one week, and owned deeds with upkeep more than 1gold. The person could probably buy wurm online but thats another thing... These people could dominate this game if it had cash shops.

Edited May 4, 2013 by atazs

[vill 248]

-1

Current system is good: 0 OP items in shop and legal gold shop.

I would say its almost the same like in EvE Online which is fine with such system.

[atazs 965]

I just reply to this separately

By design the game seems to need division which is why there are so many servers already, without it there would be no space due to deeds, or atleast a lack of desirable space. Adding more servers is obviously dependant on population, im not saying add 100 new servers today lol.

Just because of a F2P only server does not mean they can not get help because just like as happens now the higher level people help just as they would on F2P, i did not say that all F2P should all be on only 1 server and thats it, only that they can have their own server such as a test bed, would be a better introduction for me atleast than what i and others i have spoken to and seen in game.

But should F2P be able to gain silver? thats what i was saying by bad design it limits what you are able to do with the game, having them on their own server stops this and with the skill cap raised gives them something. Runescape would be a good example of p2p vs f2p, i have not played in years so it could of changed when it changed owners

It also shows that the documentation of the game is poor, i had no idea that there was a premium only server, the whole experience of choosing what server to play on was a poor experience as was the tutorial, but thats another thread lol

I dont agree, i have been a part of many gaming communities which long for sandbox MMO's, i would actually say its also wrong as many of these so called action games have just as much grind elements, only you are not staring at the floor 90% of the time while doing it ;-)

50 was as an example and can be F2P server only ruleset,bashing and greifing assumes that everyone is a jerk, which they are not and that comes down to game design rather than poor attitudes

This is another issue with design that i learnt very quickly, lets focus on the PVP when the combat is worst thing in this game, makes about as much sense as half the other stuff in wurm

I agree that the documentation is poor but it's fine. You are supposed to learn it not give it to you on a free plate. As far as i know though... in the tutorial if you choose the epic portal it tells you elevation is premium only Or at least it doesn't let you there if you dont have premium .. Again no idea what you are talking about. The combat could use some improving yes but it's tricky and there are many people who like the combat. It might not need as many real life skills as another MMO but its complicated and knowledge is required.

Edited May 4, 2013 by atazs

[BlGpapa 68]

almost all free to play end up costing more that game with montly subcribtion and the current system is exellent i dont want to see it change!!!

[Clatius 455]

By playerbase I refer to the vast majority of players Ive known in Wurm over the years... hell most of the upper GMs were still regular players then. In addition to the 3-4 various forums Wurm has gone through since 2006.

Nice. You use unsubstantiated fluff to prove a point about something someone else has said. If you are going to contradict him shouldn't you use facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear?

[Klaa 4,872]

Nice. You use unsubstantiated fluff to prove a point about something someone else has said. If you are going to contradict him shouldn't you use facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear?

What are you blathering about? For a quick refresher, I originally made a comment about the playerbase being rather passionate on the subject of f2p models, which is already rather obvious from the number of posts/views in just three days.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Klaa

[Clatius 455]

For a quick refresher your comment was based on nothing but your blathering. No proof. And only a handful of people have commented. A very small fraction of the players. And a view does not equal a comment nor an opinion. It's someone looking at something. Sheesh. How about some real facts instead of weak, unsubstantiated opinion.

 

However, it all may be a moot point. It might be better for Rolf to keep this game a non contender since if it did actually become successful and profitable he would have to start facing some real competition and actually have to produce instead of his current rate of snails pace output. As others have pointed out, this game has been around for six or seven years and is just now coming out with stuff that has been wanted for years. And even that content happens in small, meager spurts. So yeah, keep it a nitch game or maybe get stomped on.

[Aeris 3,751]

We're still doing this? Starting thread after thread on the same topic with the exact sam replies and complaints in every single one of them?

[whykillme 1,621]

We're still doing this? Starting thread after thread on the same topic with the exact sam replies and complaints in every single one of them?

Yes!  

[Asciana 303]

The spergs do need somewhere to let off steam I guess.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Asciana

[Tineen 17]

We're still doing this? Starting thread after thread on the same topic with the exact sam replies and complaints in every single one of them?

If we didn't do that the forum would be a sorry desolate place full of empty village recruitment threads and merchant ads. The spam must flow.

 

On topic, no thanks I like the game as it is, clunky, half broken and without a silly shop system. Perhaps you'd rather play Runescape.

 

 

[Sarcaticous 338]

If we didn't do that the forum would be a sorry desolate place full of empty village recruitment threads and merchant ads. The spam must flow.

 

On topic, no thanks I like the game as it is, clunky, half broken and without a silly shop system. Perhaps you'd rather play Runescape.

 

 

 

Why bother with Runescape? There are much better games available that you can play for free. And like any game that has a shop, you don't have to buy a thing to enjoy the game.

 

Rolf has the resources to open another map and make it the cash shop server without any ties to the other servers. If you don't want to go there then don't. I suspect many would though. People want a fs grinder, er, hunter only server so I don't think another server with a shop isn't possible. Also, all these alts people have are pay to win. Traders are pay to win. Don't really see the problem myself since pay to win is without question a part of the game. If "the majority" (LMAO) are against it why do so many do it? There's a word for that.

 

BTW, I only use pay to win because so many like to use that incorrect phrase since there is no win in WURM.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Sarcaticous

[Jarosz 189]

Why bother with Runescape? There are much better games available that you can play for free. And like any game that has a shop, you don't have to buy a thing to enjoy the game.

 

Rolf has the resources to open another map and make it the cash shop server without any ties to the other servers. If you don't want to go there then don't. I suspect many would though. People want a fs grinder, er, hunter only server so I don't think another server with a shop isn't possible. Also, all these alts people have are pay to win. Traders are pay to win. Don't really see the problem myself since pay to win is without question a part of the game. If "the majority" (LMAO) are against it why do so many do it? There's a word for that.

 

BTW, I only use pay to win because so many like to use that incorrect phrase since there is no win in WURM.

 

Win in wurm is to become as self sufficient as possible.  Once you have F2P premium, you win.,, and keep winning when you have several alts with F2P premium. (or make a living off of playing wurm)

 

Sadly, because of how economics works, only a minute few can get there.

[ReaverKane 363]

Win in wurm is to become as self sufficient as possible.  Once you have F2P premium, you win.,, and keep winning when you have several alts with F2P premium. (or make a living off of playing wurm)

 

Sadly, because of how economics works, only a minute few can get there.

That makes it don't pay to win? Or win when you don't pay? Interesting new concept...

Fact is, Wurm has LOTS of P2W stuff, start with sleep powder (extra 60m of 2x exp, common item in Cash shops all around, Large "don't ever lose stuff from decay" chests, premium time (on the mind of F2P players its a pay to win scenario), etc. ect. Just about anything you buy with silver from traders (even buying silver from the shop) can be seen as a pay to win.

If wurm is a economy game, specially in freedom, then purchasing currency is pay to win, purchasing traders is pay to win. If its about settling and surviving, then buying a deed is pay to win (cause it has guards), if its about getting skills faster, then having a deed with a long existence and such (which gives extra skill gain), and having purchasable sleep bonus is pay to win. If its about having a cool large mine, then buying a shaker orb and skip on months of training a Mag priest, is pay to win.

 

If you don't want pay to win, then seriously, a subscription game is the ultimate place NOT to be.

 

PS: In no way do i find those items imbalanced, overpowered or wrong, they are a good idea on wurm, and i always will support a cash shop on wurm. This post is just here to point out how the P2W is a bit hypocritical when applied on Wurm.

[Zuuma 42]

 

 

If you don't want pay to win, then seriously, a subscription game is the ultimate place NOT to be.

 

 

But a PURE subscription game is pay to PLAY only, not to "win" (some advantage). Wurm is pay to play (and even "win"), but still is possible to play (with premium) without paying because we can pay subs with ingame money, then the "win to not pay model" make sense here. And not the unique game to mix p2p and p2w. Entropia Universe do that with some success, but not the same way.

 

And i still think Wurm can do better embracing the pay to win (or comestic shops only) without shame, because subs are one almost outdated business model for MMOs.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Zuuma

[ReaverKane 363]

If you strip it down to the core, you play to win, if you require payment to play, then you're paying to attempt to win. Sure paying doesn't give an unfair advantage (unless you think its unfair that someone gets to play and you don't, but then many people whining about traders apparently think like that).

With Wurm's "Trial" mode, many people see premium as "pay to win". I've seen that attitude in many new players around my game time.

[Martynas5 435]

Wurm is more "play to win" for me. If you have time all you have to do is to invest it into the game.

[ReaverKane 363]

Wurm is more "play to win" for me. If you have time all you have to do is to invest it into the game.

isn't that how its supposed to be?

[Sir Arowhun 473]

These replies are all rather funny considering cash shops are now the most popular way to play. And reduced timers was only a suggestion since there are a million different ways to make more money FOR THE GAME in a cash shop. And again, there is no win in WURM.

 

Cash shops ruin games. The way it is is fine by me.

[Sarcaticous 338]

Cash shops ruin games. The way it is is fine by me.

 

I guess you have not played the game for very long so here's a news flash. WURM has a cash shop. It's called TRADERS. Lots of Pay to Win stuff on them.