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Sarcaticous

F2P Or P2P?

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" Free-to-Play or Pay-to-Play, that is the question

In the US, the share of revenues coming from free-to-play MMO games continues to rise, reaching 50% this year, up from 39% in 2010. German free-to-play spending already passed the 50% mark in 2010 and is expected to grow above 60% in 2015. At the same time, Europe witnesses a rebound in spending on pay-to-play MMOs. Many newcomers, drawn in by free-to-play games, are also signing up for triple A paid MMO games like Diablo 3. By increasingly offering free trials and in-game purchases, pay-to-play games are implementing the success factors of free-to-play games. The distinction will become harder to make in the future, as business models mix and merge.

Peter Warman, CEO of Newzoo, adds: “MMO players are very dedicated gamers. As the majority already plays games on other screens, it will be interesting to see if publishers succeed in extending and monetizing their MMO experience across all screens. Working together with SuperData adds enormous value to both our own insights as well as those of our clients.â€"

cited from http://www.superdata...g-exceeds-12bn/

If you read the entire article it made me wonder if perhaps Rolf should reconsider his business model. He could possibly make more money. It appears the f2p and p2p cash shops are the current and future money makers. And as so many who support WURM's price increases have pointed out, more money ensures a better and more lasting WURM.

Another thing that might help WURM is picking up the pace of the game. It's currently a grind for anything you do. This ends up turning away a good many new players. Reducing materials and or timers required across the board (or bored) might entice more people to stick around for longer than a month. Maybe even allowing people to pay for reduced timers. Yeah, I know, "I don't wunt no play to winnnn". There is no win in WURM. It's a sandbox. There is only play.

If you are on a PvP server reduced timers could easily be restricted. They could be physical objects bought from the shop that can be activated once in game but only on PvE servers. You could have all kinds of different timer reducers. Fighting, carpentry, masonry or even different timers for skills in those skill trees. Think of the MONEY Rolf could make. I most certainly would not sell them on Traders. The shop is much easier to access and ensures all the money going to the company developing the game.

Just my 2 isk worth.

Edited by Sarcaticous

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i hate p2p cash shops because they are simply pay to win even more then what the players make it, i am 200% against pay2win cash shops by the creator.

Maybe random cash items like item sets that look diffrent but have no effect and are just for show, stuff like items that are on traders into the shop for Euros, but besides that nonono.

-1 your timer reducing suggestion

Edited by whykillme
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I think the current system is excellent.

-1

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Free to play model is horrible. Paying to win is even more pointless than trying really hard to win to no end.

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ive played a few MMOs with cash shops, pay2win really sucks for the casual player.

saying "the casual player can purchase X from the shop to catch up to hardcore gamer" wont work, because the hardcore gamer will also be buying the same X to go above and beyond the casual guy.

these play2win games don't always last too long either, well, their quality goes down over time and you end up with like 4 or 5 guilds on each server. one game I played went from 1 server to over 300 servers, and was just a mess.

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These replies are all rather funny considering cash shops are now the most popular way to play. And reduced timers was only a suggestion since there are a million different ways to make more money FOR THE GAME in a cash shop. And again, there is no win in WURM.

Edited by Sarcaticous

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These replies are all rather funny considering cash shops are now the most popular way to play.

because we dont agree with you we are funny?

Well you' re retarded then

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-1 sorry but if wurm had made the skill gain any easier, there wouldnt be any need to buy silver coins other then to pay your deeds taxes, as everyone and their mom will be able to make 70QL tools in less then a month, Which is do able already without Enchanted tools.

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Im an old school player who likes difficult games. If Wurm becomes a "Easy Button" game like all the other trash being made today, i would no longer play it as i have done with other games.

There is no sense of accomplishment when games are easy, or when you can pay to make them that way.

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Popular of late because its been a huge cash cow for the developers of certain games and middling for others. Pays well due to a select class of so-called gaming whales along with the average 100-200 US dollars per player.

Now Wurm even for mmo players has been sort of a niche, while not as hardcore as some Korean mmos in gameplay. That said Rolf, while not using a pure f2p model, has had a cash shop of sorts ingame for years now.

A rather amusing trend of late has been every new f2p claiming to not be a pay2win; though, some actually do live up to such promises.

Edited by Klaa

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These replies are all rather funny considering cash shops are now the most popular way to play. And reduced timers was only a suggestion since there are a million different ways to make more money FOR THE GAME in a cash shop. And again, there is no win in WURM.

Maybe wurms strength lies in that it is a unique game that doesn't follow with the rest of 'the most popular way to play". I'm pretty sure the fact that wurm is different is what attracts the paying customers of Rolf; otherwise there's a bazillion other games out there that would be just the same and people would just hop over to the one next door.

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-1,000

Free to play with stores that let you buy premium content always leads to 'special' content available on the store that you can't get in-game on top of 'special permanent bonuses', etc. Have to admit that yes, it brings in more money - but at the cost of alienating your long-term players. I really don't want to see 'Hellhorse Mount with Blue Flames and Adamantium Barding that Respawns when Dead!' or any such items available for 50 euro on the store.

Yes, it's one of my hot button topics. But I also feel that if the devs of a game are going that route they are also dumbing down the game to get a mass influx of new players - once again alienating their long term players. The reason I stay with Wurm is because it has not and shows no desire to turn into any of the MMOs i've seen go down that road, cheapening and negating any of the long term projects and areas you have sweated, bled and suffered wife aggro to create over the years.

Example: Star Wars Galaxies. It took 18 months for the first player to discover how to start learning the force and start the road to becoming a jedi and then another 6 months of going to the academy. At the end Sony changed it so you could just start a character as a jedi for quick cash. Do you want to earn your accolades, or have them handed to you?

/Soapbox off

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Wurm has multiple avenues of approach for all player types.

Those who want Pay2Win can simply buy up all the silver they want (from the shop or other players) and hire a bunch of day laborers to get their dreams made be its roads, canals, tunnels, houses, castles, cities etc. There is no "unique" uber gear to grind for that is found in most MMOs. Everything in Wurm is player made, therefore, anyone given enough time can make whatever they want.

There are even players who don't have to pay a dime and can make by just fine in the game. (they rely on the Pay2win crowd sourcing them money).

Both of these types rely on a strong and numerous "working class" of players who will work for others. Which is arguably not found in any other MMO. There is no central market, most work is either on site, or Bulk delivery by players.

pay2win cash shops would simply kill this class of player. As those with money would interact less with other players to get things done.

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Sure Rolf could make more money by making Wurm 'pay to win', but with that he would only be able to develop a better pay to win game.

I'm not interested in that at all. What tickles my fancy is the fact that you don't buy your way into this game (bar buying already developed toons), you work long and hard in order to get good at things. Even the 'accursed' trader drainers/fat cats in the game can't buy skills, all they can do is buy the best enchanted items in order to skill up marginally faster.

Every time I chop down a mountain, well, a hill, in no time at all it is because I invested all that time in digging, not because I spent 1000 Euros on a 'magical shovel of mountain moving' that ups my digging skills by 80 points. When I see a massive area made flat as a pool table, I know some other player has invested blood, sweat and tears into doing that and I duly stand in awe of such dedication.

That is the true sense of satisfaction and accomplishment a player can get out of this game. Were it to be poisoned with a bunch of 'no attention span/instant gratification' kids who only come here to dig away mountains for the bragging rights, the game would lose appeal in a big way with me. It would become a different game.

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:P Oh yeah did I neglect to mention Wurm's playerbase tends to be rather passionate on the subject?

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Sure Rolf could make more money by making Wurm 'pay to win', but with that he would only be able to develop a better pay to win game.

I'm not interested in that at all. What tickles my fancy is the fact that you don't buy your way into this game (bar buying already developed toons), you work long and hard in order to get good at things. Even the 'accursed' trader drainers/fat cats in the game can't buy skills, all they can do is buy the best enchanted items in order to skill up marginally faster.

Every time I chop down a mountain, well, a hill, in no time at all it is because I invested all that time in digging, not because I spent 1000 Euros on a 'magical shovel of mountain moving' that ups my digging skills by 80 points. When I see a massive area made flat as a pool table, I know some other player has invested blood, sweat and tears into doing that and I duly stand in awe of such dedication.

That is the true sense of satisfaction and accomplishment a player can get out of this game. Were it to be poisoned with a bunch of 'no attention span/instant gratification' kids who only come here to dig away mountains for the bragging rights, the game would lose appeal in a big way with me. It would become a different game.

Train yourself for months, or pay 100 diggers/miners for a day. Multiple ways to move a mountain in Wurm that does not require a magic shovel.

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Big -1 for all suggestions related to changing Wurm business model - Wurm economy is player-driven and current model perfectly fits to it.

I recognize the current Wurm business model as one of the best business models I know and I can't imagine Wurm without it.

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While making timers and whatnot easier if they felt like throwing fireworks or some other random item on traders it could help boost his $$. $ from the pool would not be circulated in the deed upkeep pool but be a moneysink. Tbh he doesn't need to put 20 different things on there or continually update them but putting 2-3 more money sink items wouldn't hurt.

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Train yourself for months, or pay 100 diggers/miners for a day. Multiple ways to move a mountain in Wurm that does not require a magic shovel.

There's always some smartass who wants to misunderstand, isn't there? :D

a ) the player who paid, will hardly be seen as the person who dug down the mountain. It would be a community project though, which is also one of those Wurm things a person can admire.

b ) pick another example if you like. How's about ql90 sword? You can't turn that into a community project. The smith will have to be a person who trained that skill, instead of using a 'holy hammer of +80 smithing skill'.

Edited by Myriad

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Im an old school player who likes difficult games. If Wurm becomes a "Easy Button" game like all the other trash being made today, i would no longer play it as i have done with other games.

There is no sense of accomplishment when games are easy, or when you can pay to make them that way.

Sadly, I partially agree with the OP and disagree with the above quote only because I'm not so sure it's not already an "easy button" game. This is not a difficult game, this is a wait for the timer game. There is NOTHING difficult about watching netflix while waiting for timers to mine walls for example.

I'm all for having stuff take a lot of time to finish for that sense of accomplishment, but have it be an active amount of time where you have to participate, not wait 40secs per action and BOOM, a completed/imped item appears.

Cash shops can still be useful if used correctly, The above examples are pretty extreme with magic shovels and bs like that, but for example cosmetic items don't affect the game other than make stuff look good and yet can still provide income for the dev.

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Sadly, I partially agree with the OP and disagree with the above quote only because I'm not so sure it's not already an "easy button" game. This is not a difficult game, this is a wait for the timer game. There is NOTHING difficult about watching netflix while waiting for timers to mine walls for example.

I'm all for having stuff take a lot of time to finish for that sense of accomplishment, but have it be an active amount of time where you have to participate, not wait 40secs per action and BOOM, a completed/imped item appears.

Cash shops can still be useful if used correctly, The above examples are pretty extreme with magic shovels and bs like that, but for example cosmetic items don't affect the game other than make stuff look good and yet can still provide income for the dev.

Once it starts you can't stop it, and at some point there will be magic shovels, thats simply how it works. -1

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Once it starts you can't stop it, and at some point there will be magic shovels, thats simply how it works. -1

Trying to predict the future and be Miss Cleo. -1

:rolleyes:

EDIT: Sorry, Miss Cleo = TV Fortune Teller for all the people who don't know.

Edited by Mitgira

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:P Oh yeah did I neglect to mention Wurm's playerbase tends to be rather passionate on the subject?

By 'player base' do you mean the 1% who are on the forums or the 99% who are not on the forums? 1% Does not a player base make.

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cosmetic items don't affect the game other than make stuff look good

Want to look good? Become a master clothes creator, or spend coin to reward one. That's already pay to win enough for me.

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Trying to predict the future and be Miss Cleo. -1

:rolleyes:

EDIT: Sorry, Miss Cleo = TV Fortune Teller for all the people who don't know.

Sorry, but there have been several if not many games that claimed they would do cashshop without pay to win, and they failed.

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