How To Sell Premium/silver Explained

[Jarosz 189]

So, in a few other "here is how to make more silver per Euro" investment threads I had talked about the ability in this game to make more silver, while benefiting F2P, Gold buyers, Gold Sellers, AND Rolf. Most people thought it was a con, but I can guarantee I did it from 2006 to 2010. It works, and has the benefit of keeping silver IN the economy as opposed to a money sink (currently in game premium option). (When Rolf has a few premium/silver sellers in the Game it behooves him to have more currency, when they are absent it is better to have a money sink... ultimately, the game economy can grow if the working class grows.)

by starting out with 100 euro I calculated 9 different combinations of low-mid-high in game premium cost (sold by players) and low-mid-high in game silver cost (sold by players)

While the price of silver has pretty well settled to 65e:100s when I was running my Premium shop the prices for silver were 75-85 euro for 100s (arguably because of the supply/demand of silver... a premium salesman can get up to 10 gold pretty fast if they put in the effort, which causes demand for silver in the economy... you can literally starve trader drainers out of house and home if you aren't careful... or if you wanted to ... the biggest economy whine fest I saw in 2010 was that traders weren't paying enough... that's when I had 10 gold in my bank accounts)

Here are the numbers

Premium per 2 months:

low: 14 silver

mid: 16 silver

high:18 silver

(Notice they are CHEAPER than in game... some people will even pay you a flat 20 silver, or they used to before Rolf added the mechanism in game)

Silver/Euro conversion:

low: 65 euro

mid: 75 euro

high: 85 euro

(My highest sale was 90 for 1 gold, my lowest was 70... if you are in a rush, don't expect that high, ride out Gold availability in the market. the more you hold, the more people will spend for it)

Assuming that you would never take any silver or euro out, and that excess silver/copper were sold here are the numbers:

Those are the first 2 months. If you sell low on both premium and silver, you will be losing money, any other option will keep you in the black.

Here are the numbers 12 months in:

Notice that really big number at the end if you sell high-high all year round? You could be making 16k euro at the end of the year (if you cash out after the 12 month) Granted... I don't think you will find 1048 accounts in wurm that will all want to buy from you. Chances are, you will never see more than 60-100 accounts (many people will come to you to get 2-5 accounts each) in a year. my estimate was about 50-100 accounts that I supported before I quit.

Keeping this in mind... you will most likely be looking at a price scheme of Mid-Mid (as no one will pay high, unless they are strapped for time, or they don't care) That is a rate of 16 silver for 2 months (20% lower than in game option) and 75 euro a month for 100 silver.

Now a lot of you are thinking, wait... Rolf is increase costs 60%. Here is what month 12 looks like at 16 euro per 2 months at 65-75-85% Silver/Euro sales:

Low-Low and Mid-low will start losing you money. Low-Mid keeps you running even.

2 things to notice. If at the end of the year you never pull any money out (silver or euro) Rolf will benefit to the tune of: (calculated as sum of assisted accounts)

1 silver :1 Euro:

1 Silver to 1.6 euro:

Any questions?

Edited April 27, 2013 by Jarosz

[Jarosz 189]

hmmm apparently excel cells don't transfer well (looked good before I submitted (I'll work on it)

If anyone wants to see the chart I made, send me a PM... this might take awhile... lol

Edited April 26, 2013 by Jarosz

[silakka 2,360]

oh boy, goodluck cleaning it ^

[Jarosz 189]

yeah... any suggestions on posting excel in the forums??

[yarnevk 257]

1 2 3 4 5 6

guess not, you used to be able to cut/paste an excel table, the editor shows it as a table, then when you post it falls apart.

attach or dropbox a .doc or .rtf formatted table?

Any analysis you include May2nd price anyways see if you have a scam for skimming profit still.

Edited April 26, 2013 by yarnevk

[Zuuma 42]

yeah... any suggestions on posting excel in the forums??

Screenshot and post the image.

[Jarosz 189]

edited it a bit... still isn't pretty (seems space formatting doesnt work either)

[Jarosz 189]

1 2 3 4 5 6

guess not, you used to be able to cut/paste an excel table, the editor shows it as a table, then when you post it falls apart.

attach or dropbox a .doc or .rtf formatted table?

Any analysis you include May2nd price anyways see if you have a scam for skimming profit still.

From my excel sheet,

12 months into the 1.6euro for 1 silver:

starting with 100 euro:

low-low= 23.58

low-mid=108.63

low-high = 480.98

mid-low= 97.40

mid-mid= 521.00

mid-high= 2,342.20

high-low= 391.03

high-mid= 2,194.88

high-high= 9,640.00

[Jarosz 189]

Theoretically... if there were enough players, and enough gold coin to support the trade: (selling at 90% of 1.6 euro ratio)

with 1228 players served:

You would touch 575 gold coins (365 days a year... would be pretty tough to circulate more than a gold a day...)

Rolf would earn 51,188 euro.

[einnel 13]

You could simply save a screenshot, i suppose. Might be the easiest.

the

 function might also work, but its a bit dodgy to get the spacing correct

[AryaStark 76]

Jarosz,

Remember my thread from yesterday? I demonstrated that with minimal effort one can get 15 silvers out of every 10 euros (16 euros after May 2nd) (5 silver from shop, 2 from premium, 6-7 from referal (+dust), 1-2 from the dummy acount). That means that I can get my silver at a rate of 67 euro per gold now and 107 euro per gold after May 2nd.

Aiming to sell your silver at a higher price then this (which you seem to do) is really not realistic.

Also by buying them premium I guess you

mean you sending them 10 (16) euros via PayPal, because otherwise I don't know who would give you their pasdwords.

From now on, using only new price:

So basically you say you would buy sillver from those players at a rate of 1 euro per silver (16 euros per 16 silver - two months premium). Then you would sell that silver at a rate of ptobably no more thay 1.1 euro per silver (for reasons already explained).

This indeed gives you a potential profit margin of maximum 10% (Paypal feed mot considered). But personally I think that the profit margin, the market size you can realistic grab and the time involved are too low to make it a worthwile investment.

Yeah, maybe do this for 10 people in your alliance, then sell the 1.6 gold and afford to pay your premium for free is possible.

But to dream at scaling this up to the level you actually make noticeable profit sounds totally unrealistic to me.

Now don't get me wrong, I wish you best of luck, just that I think you're oveoptimistic and overenthusiast.

Cheers,

Alex

[Jarosz 189]

Jarosz,

Remember my thread from yesterday? I demonstrated that with minimal effort one can get 15 silvers out of every 10 euros (16 euros after May 2nd) (5 silver from shop, 2 from premium, 6-7 from referal (+dust), 1-2 from the dummy acount). That means that I can get my silver at a rate of 67 euro per gold now and 107 euro per gold after May 2nd.

Aiming to sell your silver at a higher price then this (which you seem to do) is really not realistic.

Also by buying them premium I guess you

mean you sending them 10 (16) euros via PayPal, because otherwise I don't know who would give you their pasdwords.

From now on, using only new price:

So basically you say you would buy sillver from those players at a rate of 1 euro per silver (16 euros per 16 silver - two months premium). Then you would sell that silver at a rate of ptobably no more thay 1.1 euro per silver (for reasons already explained).

This indeed gives you a potential profit margin of maximum 10% (Paypal feed mot considered). But personally I think that the profit margin, the market size you can realistic grab and the time involved are too low to make it a worthwile investment.

Yeah, maybe do this for 10 people in your alliance, then sell the 1.6 gold and afford to pay your premium for free is possible.

But to dream at scaling this up to the level you actually make noticeable profit sounds totally unrealistic to me.

Now don't get me wrong, I wish you best of luck, just that I think you're oveoptimistic and overenthusiast.

Cheers,

Alex

Alex,

Everyone I bought for shared a password with me. Like I said, you need to build trust to do this. I had 1 forum post for premium sales and 1 forum post for gold sales. I publicized everything.

When I used the term "benevolant" I wasn't joking. I scaled to over 50 unique accounts. some were 1st time (who sold their referrals to me) some where 2 months, some 4, some 12. While your method creates dummy accounts and arguable takes doing the tutorial 10 times to produce your profits, my method just takes people going to an NPC village and trading silver with you.

Yes, it takes sharing screen name/password. But, like I promoted in the Suggestion thread is a "referral" type puchase/token in the Wurm Shop. One that could be traded, assinged, or consumed by the purchaser. This would take away the requirement to share login info.

You have to build your name to build your pool of accounts that you support. I don't think anyone tried while I was doing my business. There were lots of sceptics at the time, but the sceptics were those who either could afford their own premium, afford their own silver, or simply lacked the trust in a well publicized forum posting that tracked sales and "thank you" replies for every purchase.

Your initial 1 time investment of 10 euro made 16 silver. You could scale it up to 100 for 160 if you really wanted to do the tutorail 100 times. My method turns 100 euro into (16 silver for 2 months, 75 euro per 100 silver) 1,152 silver.

its not a quick churn around and its arguably a very minimal work job. you can do this on alts at NPC villages or market areas while playing on your main. Simply arrange a meeting place/date and sign in.

When I did it, there was no 20 silver for in game premium, nor sleeping powder... when their stocks go up astronomically their worth will fall. (if everyone gets a handful a month, they won't buy it from players)

Jarosz

Edited April 27, 2013 by Jarosz

[Jarosz 189]

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Player:Polan

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Player:Jarosz

Check the date stamps

[Jarosz 189]

If anything now is the time to try this again, many people with hordes of silver that usually pay for premium with Euro could be looking for a "cheaper" option. If they have steady silver income, silver is cheap for them.

Also, the only way silver sales will reach their potential is if there is a steady sale of silver. Most people will be holding out, shoot for the moon with your pricing. Someone will buy, and when they do advertise it.

Lastly, if people can ride out the fluctuation in pricing, you might become their go to person. This isn't about offering people premium mule accounts with no skill, this is about keeping skilled players premiumed.

[Klaa 4,872]

[Protunia 735]

Um during that time in 2010 a certain some one sploited traders for months causing no one to get anything.

Was actually Corpses Dropping Trader Items I believe....http://forum.wurmonl...hboi-restarted/

Anyhow plenty of people have come up with schemes and scams...

As far as you're plan good luck with all that nonsense during the slow time of year.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Protunia

[Jarosz 189]

I've already done it before for 4 years in gold 1 to gold 2. (its what lead to premium in game). Since no one picked up the torch I decided to let anyone who might be interested know the numbers involved

Please enlighten us what is the scam? Are the numbers wrong? Or are you just trolling (still waiting to see a constructive post from you for once that doesn't come out negative to something)

If you can find someone I scammed with my program, by all means drag my name through mud.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Jarosz

[Ayes 3,715]

From all that has recently come to the fore about the ability to make large profits which can then be used to Subsidize ones Wurm gameplay and then sell large quantities of silver/gold to make RL money, this indicates to me that Rolf is well aware of this process and has indeed structured the game mechanics in this manner. Since this is his game I have no rights to dictate to him that he do otherwise.

For a time I had thought that he was unaware of the extent that this system could be used to any players benifit in the manner in which you have described here. If I *were* to give any credence to your figures, this would only point out to me more clearly that this is indeed Rolf's intent. Although I see no "How To Sell Premium/silver Explained" explained here but rather just statistics that you have presented as "fact" and backed by your "guarantee". Guarantee's are based upon substance, which in your case would have to be backed up by the proper documentation and certified by some reputable company set up for that purpose. This is perhaps why as in your own words "most people thought it was a con".

Since I have no way of confirming nor denying your claims made with any authority, nor really any interest in doing so, I will leave it and that and not go into any further details about various structures setup in other countries throughout the world as legal entities with favorable laws established to enhance their operation as well as make these places international banking centers for favorable tax protection and shelter of the monies contained within them. Although your "Premium Shop" not even slightly resembles their sophistication, in other ways it reminds me the types of "guarantees" that some of these less reputable operations offer.

Again, I will say I am sort of disillusioned to have realized by all these recent exposures that the game is set up in this way by the game creators intent. Although I knew for a long time that one could make silvers within the game by various means and then use it to support their Wurm game play to various extents as well as sell off the same for RL profits; it sort of escaped me that one could "play the game" so much with this focus in mind since the game creator had structured it in this manner. I had just gone along merrily in my way, purchasing from the Wurm Shop, then placing my deeds and enjoying building them as well as enhancing the local areas around them. Since this is what I enjoy doing, I shall continue on in this manner and leave the making of profits from the playing of the game to those who think it worthwhile.

=Ayes=

[Jarosz 189]

Ayes

When I ran my shop it was ran as a social program. (This was before the in game premium option). People were aware that buying gold from me equated to more premium players in the game. They knew I helped those who couldn't afford it because of RL issues or PayPal not being supported in their country.

They knew this because it was their village mates and neighbors getting premium. They were willing to pay a bit more because they understood the benefits. I even told them up front, for me to keep the program running I couldn't sell for less, and in order to help more accounts the next month I had to sell for a bit more.

And I never had an issue selling gold at the price I set it, in a market selling at 70% I could openly sell at 80%.

I would actually argue that Rolf encouraged me to run this program. He helped me directly setup my "premiumShroud" character at the BL NPC settlement on wild (now chaos). A character with 0 skill yet BL and was never converted by another player. He also almost wrote me a letter of recommendation for a gaming QA job, but the job said I wouldn't need any.

I was in open conversations with several GMs, and almost had a permanent sticky in the "market" forums, but that only lasted a few days when I was told I couldn't be shown more privileges than other players and it got unstickied.

I had warnings on my posts stating the rules on shared account info and that Rolf could not reimburse players who were swindled (as I had asked him well before it started if it was ok for me to run the program in the shadow of his shop. His terms were that I added the warnings and absolved him of any responsibility)

[Gavin 971]

Um during that time in 2010 a certain some one sploited traders for months causing no one to get anything.

Was actually Corpses Dropping Trader Items I believe....http://forum.wurmonl...hboi-restarted/

The bug was you were able to breed a zombie male human with a zombie female trader and it would then lay a 'Son/Daughter of Trader_XX' baby which you could kill and retrieve all of the sized deeds off it (eg "size two hundred village deed" worth 20G) you could then plant said deeds and disband to get half of their worth back, or, after the deed change you were able to hit 'refund' on the deeds and it would give to the worth in silver. The purpose of the refund option was so people who legitimately purchased deeds and hadn't planted them would not be out of pocket after the change was implimented.

This had absolutely nothing to do with the amount of money one could make from a trader and would have no negative effect on them. If anything it would have HELPED the trader payouts as 'spawned' silvers were circulating through the economy that otherwhise wouldn't have been.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Gavin