Regarding The Price Raise Discussion

[Kegan 3,926]

i am fine with the traders getting changed but there will be a HUGE fallout over it thats for sure i am here either way.

[jmitch 10]

If you will just allow me to sink passing ships with my catapult I will pay triple

Edited April 20, 2013 by jmitch

[yarnevk 257]

Still allowing people to get premium with in game silver for the same price ( no 60% increase there ) and the financial loss he has from trader draining, i would say he is doing this with a very short sighted viewpoint.

Rolf is still under the old belief that the trader system is functioning as Protunia has documented that it used to be, that you paid Rolf your 60s with 60e or $80 for your trader deed, and in return if you where very good at figuring out an undocumented complex ratio system it will start paying out that initial cost after a year, but was never enough for anything more than a few goodies, certainly not for paying your premium and your upkeep.

Rolf probably is completely clueless that players have figured out how to game the system such that he never earns a dime even for the trader/deed purchase since that comes from trader players cheap gold now, likewise he has no idea that the payback time has been publicly documented how to earn that payback in as little as two months, and to geometrically build out your trader empire from there.

The reality is if traders where forced to backpay for the deed and premium with cash, the tax mans cup would overflow, and there would not even be a need for the rate hike, and that is accounting for those rage quitters that are not addicted enough to actually follow thru on their rage quit.

Edited April 20, 2013 by yarnevk

[Protunia 735]

We wont even go into the land being taken just to hold all these trader deeds for draining coin

[Ayes 3,715]

from the perspective of one without a trader to train.

Then somehow I suspect your post is to defend this Trader Draining system to the benifit of one or one's that you are well acquainted with.

Traders get money equal to a portion of money spent on traders, money spent on deeds, and money lost through the draining of deeds. This money does appear from nowhere- it comes from the player base in one form or another.

Exactly. The rest of playerbase is paying for these Trader Drainers game time, deeds and RL gold sales profits. Good to see that you are clear on this then.

because the only way to get money would be to buy it from the shop.

Again, exactly. This is the point that I have made many times already. That if Trader Draining is eliminated then players will have to purchase their game coins from the shop, rather than from price undercutters who drain coins from Traders and sell it to other players which in turn "obviously" reduced Rolf's game income. Again, good to see that you are confirming this as the case.

Removing trader drains is almost synonymous to removing the option to hold massive deeds

True. It removes the ability for Trader Drainers to hold massive deeds. I don't see this as a bad thing, although you do, which strikes me as a view baised towards Trader Drainers benifiting at the expense of others having to "buy it from the shop" as you stated.

Furthermore, the money drained from traders doesn't explicitly go into upkeep. Much of it is likely spent on buying player made goods, and paying players for services.

Yes indeed. The Trader Drainers are spending their free ride money to their benifit. Again, this is "obvious".

What you seem to be missing in all of this is that the majority of the playerbase, myself included *does* purchase their premium time and silver/gold from the Wurm shop. The only ones that don't are by the major proportion Trader Drainers who after their so called initial "investment" are able to drain that payment back out within a few months and then indefinately obtain all the other benifits that you have described without paying anything for their for any of their Wurm expenses again. Then add onto that, that they sell off excess silver/gold drained from Traders for RL money profits, which in turn removes any incentive for other players to purchase silver/gold from the Wurm Shop.

To a much lesser extent crafters are selling silver/gold to other players but they are actually creating something and in turn for their skills and efforts *earning* money from other players and not receiveing "money for nothing" such as the Trader Drainers are doing from tapping the "money tree" within Wurm and draining the lifeblood out of the system. So I see no problem with crafter sales of goods and services as being a contribution to the Wurm economy.

Otherwise, I see no problem with having to purchase ones silver/gold *exclusively* from the Wurm Shop. Yes, players will then all have to pay with RL money and just purchase what they can afford to purchase but less is more income in this instance since Trader Drainers were not paying anything in the first place. Some that enjoy playing the game may then continue to play for just that, as by the way most of us do. These profiteer Trader Drainers will then move to other online gaming where they can make their profits from playing the game and I for one will not miss their departure in the least.

With TRADER DRAINING then eliminated, Wurm will be on a more stable financial platform not undermined by others who are quite happy to take part of the profits for their own use to the games detriment financially. The future will be brighter since Rolf would have then decided to take the sensible step to stop supporting these freeloaders and have more money to invest into the game and his own personal income as well.

As you mentioned, all this is "obvious" to me and you have even confirmed some of my previous points made by your own statements. Repeating myself can at times become annoying and at that point I don't respond until the next post comes along that "encourages" me to respond, which then I may or may not do. I am unpredictable in that way; but, here with your response you do not do well to defend your Trader Drainer friends who will continue to drain financial profits from the game of Wurm to their benifit until Rolf becomes bold enough to stand up to them and put an end to this untenable system.

=Ayes=

[Kegan 3,926]

We wont even go into the land being taken just to hold all these trader deeds for draining coin

But that is the best part can't leave that out i have a huge sprawling land mass i guess you probably have never seen it.. let me show you, lol

The red area is either controlled by perimeter or deed the spots are the traders.

[alaskanbob 225]

Still allowing people to get premium with in game silver for the same price ( no 60% increase there ) and the financial loss he has from trader draining, i would say he is doing this with a very short sighted viewpoint.

Not against raising the price of buying prem time in game. Blah trader this blah trader that. The ones on the older servers still take months to make back the initial investment.

[yarnevk 257]

But that is the best part can't leave that out i have a huge sprawling land mass i guess you probably have never seen it.. let me show you, lol

The red area is either controlled by perimeter or deed the spots are the traders.

You continue to astound me in how you have managed to game the system beyond even my wildest imagination of what living large for free is.

[Ayes 3,715]

But that is the best part can't leave that out i have a huge sprawling land mass i guess you probably have never seen it.. let me show you, lol

The red area is either controlled by perimeter or deed the spots are the traders.

I really hope Rolf makes a *follow* to review all your recent posts. You make the best case as to why Trader Draining should be eliminated with no refunds even considered for any existing Traders, which then should be made public for all to use as future game income generating items are added to them. I almost feel sorry for you, as you seem like a nice person otherwise.

*come back to the Light Luke*

=Ayes=

[Kegan 3,926]

Bottom line it is flawed it probably does need fixed i started the deal with one trader and worked my way up. I have bought maybe $300 dollars worth of store bought stuff and i have did good on some investments like then i bought 12 spyglasses for cheap but yes it needs work and for the good of game it does need reviewed. It took me two years to get to this point but it can be done and with a system he has put in.

Edit: I have well earned my money back and have made a profit. I guess i have maybe 10-12g worth of stuff still that i could cash out on but getting 1-2g a month from it the way it is now. ( the upkeep is about 75s i think)

Edited April 20, 2013 by Kegan

[Ayes 3,715]

You continue to astound me in how you have managed to game the system beyond even my wildest imagination of what living large for free is.

Naw, actually I am not surprised at all by this. Been around longer than you I guess and known Protunia as a neighbor a long time as well. Had some interesting conversations with 'em about the profits being made, although going to the *dark side* was just not worth the effort to me since building deeds that I payed for out of my *own* finances was always my interest. Never did go for handouts in RL either, so maybe that has something to do with it as well.

=Ayes=

[ZarmaZarma 192]

Then somehow I suspect your post is to defend this Trader Draining system to the benifit of one or one's that you are well acquainted with.

And I expect your attacks to be based purely on envy, and an inability to understand a system far too complicated for you to spend time learning. Now that assumptions are out of the way...

True. It removes the ability for Trader Drainers to hold massive deeds. I don't see this as a bad thing, although you do, which strikes me as a view baised towards Trader Drainers benifiting at the expense of others having to "buy it from the shop" as you stated.

How do you not see this as a problem? You are proposing that all the players in the game that want to have a large deed, a very fun and fulfilling part of Wurm, should spend massive amounts of their income to support it. Wurm is an extremely expensive game- if you want to spend 100e a month on Wurm, more power to you. Most people do not. Most people don't have that kind of money. You are making an argument that appeals, strictly, and in fact despicably, to the small portion of players that are willing to put that sort of money down on Wurm. We would NOT gain more money by removing trader drain. All you would do is force certain players to get less. By removing a primary force in the Wurm economy, you would hamstring the very "common player" you claim to protect. If anyone here is "elite", it's you. Frankly, it's unbearably offensive.

Yes indeed. The Trader Drainers are spending their free ride money to their benifit. Again, this is "obvious".

Please take a course on economics. This is the heart of the capitalism. I won't even try to explain this to you, but I will tell you this: the poor gain money through the rich's spending. You claim that trader drainers impoverish those who do not own traders, but this is either a blatant lie, or astonishing myopia on your part. The money that they gain goes back to the players that spent it in the first place. Without it, you would be FORCED to buy all of your money from the Wurm Shop.

After reading your posts, all I can think is that you are upset that others are spending less and being more successful. By your logic, we could easily remove other things to make Wurm a more "stable financial platform". Why not make transmutation rods the only way to get ore veins? Surely, if players wish to have ore, they might as well buy the silver necessary from the shop, and promote Wurm's financial stability. Why not make it impossible to trade silver? This way, the money can more quickly leave the system, by being spent only on objects that- under your system- would be nonrefundable in anyway? Yes, I can certainly see how this mode of play would benefit the "fair Wurm player", who buys all their silver form the shop, and is willing to take out loans to maintain their Wurm deeds.

[Protunia 735]

Zarma you're stepping in deeper and don't even know it yet... lol.

*Gets out Shovel.

[Zuuma 42]

Wurm is an extremely expensive game- if you want to spend 100e a month on Wurm, more power to you.

And will be 60% more expensive soon, but not for drainers.

Without it, you would be FORCED to buy all of your money from the Wurm Shop.

And Rolf would make more money that way. Period!

[yarnevk 257]

Edit: I have well earned my money back and have made a profit. I guess i have maybe 10-12g worth of stuff still that i could cash out on but getting 1-2g a month from it the way it is now. ( the upkeep is about 75s i think)

So 2g-75s is 1.25g net which you can sell next month sell a gold coin for between 100-160e cash per month. Leaving you 25s a month to pay premiums, services, goods, etc, of which Rolf does not see any funds because it is trader drained silver. And Rolf is not making any current income off you someone who has spent less initial cash in two years than I have spent in six months because I do not play the trader game. Yes you would have to reduce down to a few deeds to live within a cash budget that is generous, but Rolf would be making money.

Edited April 20, 2013 by yarnevk

[yarnevk 257]

Frankly, it's unbearably offensive.

Indeed it is unbearably offensive that you think you deserve to live large for free by exploiting a game mechanic far beyond what ever intended. Do you also take shortcuts like this in the real world? Do you work at McDonalds and say they is making thousands of dollars a day in your till while you cannot afford a hamburger so you start taking from the till to go live at Park Place? Because that is not capatilism, that is frankly considered embezzlement in the capitalist world. The entire accounting concept of lost income is that there are those who received the same benefit as those that pay, but have found a mechanism to not have to pay. It is an accounting concept as it is necessary to account for income you should have received for serviced provided. It is necessary to account for this because the premium features of service providers cost them money, so they must either get that money from you, or record it in the loss column as lost income so that when their accountant sees they are in the red they can say it is due to lost income, fix that problem to get in the black.

At least the other traders have conceeded it is broken and partly responsible for the financial mess Rolf finds himself in to the point that his accountant is requiring a 60% rate raise. So clearly this financial shortfall goes far beyond VAT, which is not even supposed to be paid by US. Clearly traders are going to enjoy 60% higher gold sales (lets say 50% for those want the appearance of not being greedy for doing absolutely nothing while those who actually pay Rolf to play are paying 60% more to fund the traders cash outs.

The state of the virtual economy is irrelevant. The price of player trader gold is irrelevant. Rolf makes nothing from such activities to fund game development What matters is does Rolf retain enough f2p as p2p premium deeders that use the cash shop such that he can afford to live, and pay programmers to live as well . If that offends you that they live off people playing a game, then I suggest you go write an indie game as a non-profit. Just keep your eye on the till for people like you.

If you want to play for free, then you have the option of doing so subject to enclosure security/safety issues as well as skill caps, with many missing features designed to get you to pay up for premium. Most of those f2p issues are worked around by joining a village and depending on others that pay for your security and have others with skills.

Edited April 20, 2013 by yarnevk

[Kegan 3,926]

So 2g-75s is 1.25g net which you can sell next month sell a gold coin for between 100-160e cash per month. Leaving you 25s a month to pay premiums, services, goods, etc, of which Rolf does not see any funds because it is trader drained silver. And Rolf is not making any current income off you someone who has spent less initial cash in two years than I have spent in six months because I do not play the trader game. Yes you would have to reduce down to a few deeds to live within a cash budget that is generous, but Rolf would be making money.

well 2g is not the norm i usually have 1g maybe a tad more after i pay upkeeps i don't sell coins like some of the people do..well not regularly. I do buy a lot of stuff off players..tools, bulk goods, HotA statues this last month along with collectable things like i have a full set of rare plate made by the same player. (must have took them a long time to make it)

I like to try my hand at buying and selling but i am not very good at it and usually over pay. For me it started out about making RL money but that changed pretty quickly but yes i started with $300 and sold probably $1000 worth of coins. I got my money back and have been playing free for a long time buying and selling things and so is most of the older players. Not all of them take it to the extreme with 15 traders but some do.

I did buy a years premium with the new changes with RL money but to be honest i had sold a priest for 280e that i had bought in a bundled deal that i paid 4.6 gold for from trader money i had saved up so i guess technically that was bought with trader money too.

Anyone can do it just buy a trader and get started.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Kegan

[Jerrywalker 16]

When deeds were changed it made them unbalanced for the amount of upkeep players are paying now per deed.

So its no longer a long term investment, but a quick and easy turn around and as you already know that promotes making more and more and more speeding up the process.

Anyhow they give plenty of benefit and if it took 8-10 months to pay off people would still buy them I know because I bought 4 when they gave hardly nothing as a long term investment.

Because of this price change I feel changing them in the way I mentioned is really fair for the whole player base.

The Economy would grow more because more players would have more silver not less and less players would control a large portion of these upkeep funds that are taken from all players deeds.

We can go round and round about this, but in no way should one trader mean free premium play forever

off the backs of all players within a few months.

And this price increase in premium justifies balancing Traders for the good of the game.

Go jump from the roof !

If spending 50 euros on trader contract is nothing for you i don't understand why you use traders at all ? just buy yourself all that you need. For most players 50 euros is quite large sum of money. I've bought a trader and i want to get some money back. I'm still paying for my 2 premium accounts thru paypall because trader don't gives much and ingame premium costs twice as high. And about "free" money from trader - did you forgot that i'm already invested in game 50 euros IRL just to buy it ? So i don't want that any player running by just drain it and get what i've paid for. - that's about suggestion to smash buildings around traders

[yarnevk 257]

Anyone can do it just buy a trader and get started.

Of course if every alt bought a trader using cash to purchase trader player gold coins, then pay in-game silver from that coin for the deed/trader and use the trader drain for premium/upkeep and their toys beyond that, be it gold coin sales, more deeds or more items, the entire system would collapse because it relies on those putting cash into Rolfs shop to keep the system going. And of course Rolf would collapse from making zero income if that happened that everyone worked around paying the shop cash, so I suggest not everyone rush out to buy a trader in an attempt to collapse the system.

Rolf needs to collapse it and replace it with a small bonus that rewards only those who pay cash to Rolf and continue to p2p for a long time. I have suggested the king become a drug pusher and have the traders pay out in sleep powder, though it is maybe redundant with this being a monthly freebie, someone with that large of deed can use all the powder they can get no doubt.

Edited April 20, 2013 by yarnevk

[alaskanbob 225]

Of course if every alt bought a trader using cash to purchase trader player gold coins, then pay in-game for the deed/trader and use the trader for premium/upkeep and their toys beyond that, but it gold coin sales, more deeds or more items, the entire system would collapse because it relies on those putting cash into Rolfs shop to keep the system going. And of course Rolf would collapse from making zero income of that happened, so I suggest not everyone rush out to buy a trader in an attempt to collapse the system.

That would just decrease the income of the trader to a nonexistant point. Feel free to do it.

[Ayes 3,715]

And I expect your attacks to be based purely on envy

Tisk, tisk. Labeling my arguements against Trader Draining as "attacks". Since you perceive them as such your inference to being unbiased in this situation by stating that you have no trader yourself would indeed lead me to believe that you are *defending* others by your stance here, although I suppose defending ones friends, if even under a guise such as you claim, is only the natural thing to do.

Also, you have no way to justify my stance taken as being done out of "envy", since you would have to know in more detail my viewpoints on the distribution of wealth through socialistic governance, my financial status as well as my views concerning the spending of my funds and to what extent that applies to our fond game of Wurm. Anyway, it is a shallow term to throw out bilthly in the manner you have done and even if it *were* true it would add nothing to justify the continued existence of the Trader Draining mechanic. So I would ask you to refrain from making the use of such slanderous terms applied to myself.

How do you not see this as a problem? You are proposing that all the players in the game that want to have a large deed, Most people don't have that kind of money. You are making an argument that appeals, strictly, and in fact despicably, to the small portion of players that are willing to put that sort of money down on Wurm. By removing a primary force in the Wurm economy, you would hamstring the very "common player" you claim to protect. If anyone here is "elite", it's you. Frankly, it's unbearably offensive.

Exactly. If players want to have a large deed they should actually have to pay for it themself. This is pretty much how life works except for government give away programs, which do nothing to incentivise others to acheive financial success by themselves. Some even abuse it to the extent that the Trader Drainers do within Wurm. That to you it is "despicable" and "unbearably offensive" that everyone should have to purchase their own premium time, deeds, pay deed upkeep and purchase silver/gold from the Wurm Shop makes it plain that you think this concept of paying you own way in this game, and no doubt in life as well, clearly indicates that you feel somehow entitled to a free ride.

What you fail to realize is that this comes at others expense such as myself and the rest of the player base who pay for these things out of their own hard earned RL money. We buy these things from the Wurm shop which then enables Rolf to give them away to Trader Drainers. Without us "elite" as you have labeled us, a term which by the way I nowhere used, there would be no money to give away to the Trader Drainers which you so staunchly defend in this unreasonable expectation of continued wealth distribution from those who pay for the game to those who want the free ride and the ability to resell *our* RL money in this manner to benifit themselves.

If anything is "offensive" it is this giveaway of this hard earned money to those who contribute little to nothing to support this game at the paying customers expense by the use of the misguided manipulated excessive giveaway Trader Draining system which Rolf blindly continues to perpetuate. I will point out to you that this is *directly* tied into the stated price increases, since Rolf has stated he needs to cover expenses and continue to develop the game in a progressive manner, which is necessitated by the fact that up to this point in time Trader Drainers have taken these otherwise Wurm profits and used for their own whims.

Undoubtedly if Trader Draining had been discontinued when objections to it were persented most recently, perhaps a year ago, although even before that the negative implications were pointed out, then we may have not been in the dire straits in which the game is as present. Of course this *one* point is pure conjecture, none of the rest is so don't get too hopeful as seeing this as a nullification of *all* the rest of the points being made.

Please take a course on economics. This is the heart of the capitalism. I won't even try to explain this to you, but I will tell you this: the poor gain money through the rich's spending. You claim that trader drainers impoverish those who do not own traders, but this is either a blatant lie, or astonishing myopia on your part. The money that they gain goes back to the players that spent it in the first place.

I would suggest that you learn at least the basics of economics, as you clearly are unable to distinguish socialism from capitalism. The Trader Draining system is certainly a system in which the wealth is redestributed from those who pay for the game with their own funds to those who then in turn drain this out to their own benifit. This is a socialistic support system that has nothing to do with free market capitalism in which progress is made by those who input into the economy, just as the paying customers do within Wurm which contributes to the financial success of the game, rather than those who lay back and drain it out through govenrment giveaway programs similar in concept to Trader Draining supported by the misguided generosity of the monarch of Wurm.

Again you resort to this response of applying slanderous and demeaning terms to my presonal character; "blatant lie, or astonishing myopia on your part" to try to defend your position. This is uncalled for, adds absolutely no validity to any of your statements and is not the way to continue any reasoned discussion of the matter. I would think that you as a Chat Moderater would at least realize that by insulting others in this unvarnished manner you are stepping over the line of stating your opinions on the issue at hand. Check your emotions and deal with the issues at hand, for I won't put up with these types of insults and will continue to call you out for making them.

After reading your posts, all I can think is that you are upset that others are spending less and being more successful. By your logic, we could easily remove other things to make Wurm a more "stable financial platform". Why not make transmutation rods the only way to get ore veins? Surely, if players wish to have ore, they might as well buy the silver necessary from the shop, and promote Wurm's financial stability. Why not make it impossible to trade silver? This way, the money can more quickly leave the system, by being spent only on objects that- under your system- would be nonrefundable in anyway? Yes, I can certainly see how this mode of play would benefit the "fair Wurm player", who buys all their silver form the shop, and is willing to take out loans to maintain their Wurm deeds.

I really had to chuckle at your opening sentence above. Furthermore my "logic" dictates nothing of the following that you would try to propose. These are all your exaggerated thoughts of which I have never made mention in any of my posts upon this issue. I wouldn't see these as a logical conclusions to come to upon any statements that I have made. Please attribute these offbeat tangental ideas to the source from which they have emerged. That would be you by the way.

Responsible spending habits are learned by earning ones own money, which imparts the impression of its worth through effort spent to obtain it. Then one learns to live within their "means". Those who would at any point consider your statement above to "to take out loans to maintain their Wurm deeds" would be ill advised to listen to any of your other *thoughts* contained within that paragraph; so I left it all intact so that others can see the creative imaginings that *you* come up with based upon where you think logic would lead.

Well at least it has been an interesting exercise in futility to ramble on; so I will close by wishing myself and all the paying customers well in the uncertain days to come as this topic slowly shambles onward into the dark night. Only the god of Wurm can decide the outcome. (Yea, he is the monarch too).

=Ayes=

[tobaul 28]

I have no problem with the price increase, i think is was actually way overdue. It is no more than any game that can keep one entertained for in my case70+hrs a week. I no longer consider wurm a beta game, yes it has its bugs and troubles but it is a fully functionin game thats grants me freedom of choice like few others can. As i only play games that allow me to run 2 or more toons, to play wow the way i play here i had to run 2 accounts, which cost me 30 a month, so for me this is still much cheaper. I keep 3 to 5 deeds full time and one to two char premed any month i am well enough to play. I consider the traders to be a perk for involved players, and trust that rolf limits them as they need to be. I just got my first trader this year, with shop silver knowing that i would likely never see more than 10 to15 silver a month, if that. I purchased him to save me the long runs to purchase the things i need and want from one. I use the drained silver for these goodies and to help with deed upkeep. So the many times i buy a settlement form with this silver rolf loses nothing and gains more deed income, and has addicted me a little more lol. I see many heated debates going on over all of this, and none of us are truly enough informed on wurms finacials to be making statements on what has to be done. I myself will just trust rolf, since in the past four years it has done nothing but get better and better in spite of all the times it has made so angry.

[Amarie 0]

I have no problem with the price increase, i think is was actually way overdue. It is no more than any game that can keep one entertained for in my case70+hrs a week. I no longer consider wurm a beta game, yes it has its bugs and troubles but it is a fully functionin game thats grants me freedom of choice like few others can. As i only play games that allow me to run 2 or more toons, to play wow the way i play here i had to run 2 accounts, which cost me 30 a month, so for me this is still much cheaper. I keep 3 to 5 deeds full time and one to two char premed any month i am well enough to play. I consider the traders to be a perk for involved players, and trust that rolf limits them as they need to be. I just got my first trader this year, with shop silver knowing that i would likely never see more than 10 to15 silver a month, if that. I purchased him to save me the long runs to purchase the things i need and want from one. I use the drained silver for these goodies and to help with deed upkeep. So the many times i buy a settlement form with this silver rolf loses nothing and gains more deed income, and has addicted me a little more lol. I see many heated debates going on over all of this, and none of us are truly enough informed on wurms finacials to be making statements on what has to be done. I myself will just trust rolf, since in the past four years it has done nothing but get better and better in spite of all the times it has made so angry.

This. Well said.

I will continue paying for my prem accounts from the shop, and the upkeep for my deeds from trader money. In the time I've been playing (since september 2011), the cost for 2 months premium has gone from 106 SEK to about 88 SEK, that's a lot of money (as in, a lot of less money for Rolf), so I fully understand the cost of it has to increase.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Amarie

[Torgrim 403]

Why are these two threads 80% about traders when Rolf never even mentioned them as a problem?

Traders gives back a set percentage of what players pay in deed upkeep to the players who are willing to invest in them. Traders do not magically create money, all money comes from the shop, period.

Some people get jelous of others having money of course, just as in real life, and that I guess that is the only real problem with traders. But I don't know if it is in any way worse than the fact that different players have very different economical situations in real life.

Looking at the two threads, it seems this jelousy is too much to handle for some people and drives them to completly swamp the threads with the same trader hate posts over and over.

[Keldun 335]

thanks Torgrim, I guess that hits the point, once again to counter the "issues" people bring up:

In game premium costs double, so it increases income for Rolf as someone needs to replace the silver removed that way.

Trader drainers do not only buy premium and deeds and sell gold to players, they also buy bricks, planks and enchanted items, supporting those players that provide the goods.

And absolutely anyone can do this if they like. If you are incapably of comprehending the system, or too lazy to bother with it, doesn't give you a right to complain about those who do.