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Rolf

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I think the whole idea of comparing Wurm to other games is weird. We don't want those other games.

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Its hard to run a SINGLE client without animations in a raid with like 30 players. THAT needs to be addressed because we could do it before 1.0 WITH animations.

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Its hard to run a SINGLE client without animations in a raid with like 30 players. THAT needs to be addressed because we could do it before 1.0 WITH animations.

I had 80 people one time in my local and it was like a hell trip even with every graphic option turned on extremely low.

This client isn't built for so many animations and other things which have been added in the past. It needs a complete new program code and a new engine to solve this issue, well I know that this takes huge amounts of time but it is so needed.

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I think we are looking at the symtom here, not the problem. It dosnt really matter how many items that can be pr tile. ill still have 10 barrels of coc water, some bsbs a few forges/ovens, merchants, beds, flags, piles of junk, large barrels, and what not in my house, I just need to spread it over a bigger/smaller area. We have so many polibilities in this game, and thats why many of us play it, but all those polibilities makes us hoard loads of stuff for when we are going to do this or that. I have some 300 arrows in barrels aswell, for when I want to grind fletching or archery, 50 oars, 150 bows, and god knows what other stuff I have around for when I feel like grinding this or that. If I can only have 50 items pr tile, ill just use twice the amount of tiles.

If you added a combine/split funktion that combined multiple of the same type of item, say 10 arrows into a "pile of arrows" and when fired just ticked down in weight as combined iron does, it would help a bit. ofcause there is some deeper consideration to be made, regarding spells on the items aswell.

I have no idea how the game works in regards to how much information is send where, but I asume when I walk by a house, my computer is told whats inside, the ql and such? I wonder if its needed untill I examin it?

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Hi!

Since many of you seem to have problems understanding why we sometimes discuss nerfs when it comes to the number of items and/or animals available to you per area, I would like to see some numbers from other MMO games. Maybe that will show how bad we are or if we are at par with other games. MMO games we should compare with are not games you are allowed to host on your own computer unless you accept 2-300 players on your local machine.

We are now using fully animated creatures (even if we'll be adding more animations later) with I'd say normal to high resolution textures. You may also consider ground decorations such as moving grass/farms and the density of trees. When it comes to trees we absolutely use less complex models than other games but it makes Wurm forests pretty dense comparatively.

So - please provide statistics from other games about items on ground you can see, items in inventory, number of pets, number of creatures you can control, etc.

Feel free to provide screenshots!

The problem with trying to respond to this is that, reading through this a few times, it's a mixture of things that are handled client-side versus server-side. If we're talking about tracking how many spawns are active on a server, then that's a server-side concern. If we're talking raw numbers of objects being tracked (whether on the ground, in inventory, etc), that's primarily a server-side concern but with some impact on client-side processing. If we're talking how many animations, polygons, and textures are being processed, that's a client-side concern.

So asking us to compare to another mmo is a little too broad in scope with what you've asked us to compare. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this request.

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I had 80 people one time in my local and it was like a hell trip even with every graphic option turned on extremely low.

This client isn't built for so many animations and other things which have been added in the past. It needs a complete new program code and a new engine to solve this issue, well I know that this takes huge amounts of time but it is so needed.

Okay, so thinking about it, there is one thing you could maybe borrow from Second Life, Avatar Imposters. When too many avatars get close to each other outside of a certain drawing range they are rendered as a lower poly/lower animation, almost sprite-like view.

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So asking us to compare to another mmo is a little too broad in scope with what you've asked us to compare. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this request.

I dont know, but I keep feeling this undertone, that he is somewhat very annoyed with us because we complain so much and wants us to know how hard it is to get a game running smoothly without lowering the freedom we have.

And challeging us to show examples of games that run smoother with even more freedom attached.

Could be just me tho, reading to much between the lines.

None the less, you cant compare wurm with other games, since not that many big mmo's are written in java and give the same amount of landshaping we have in wurm.

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I do and don't agree to this comparison question

Having bookshelf with a lot of mmos and games I've bought and played

There isn't many to really compare to wurm

Every item/object/player is a active Entity

And without some hardcore modifying a database"streamlining" or server hardware or subdividing

The current maps there will be no way lower the load of the servers

Eve online had a really big problem with items stored in stations/space

During this early hardware there was a ever slowing of server responses

They ended up converting to 64bit nodes/higher ram for high traffic systems

And stack less Python to help with processes. And even came up with coding

To enable 3000+ vs 3000+ thru Time dilation. " slowing of actions to prevent the node from crashing and still allow playability

Now wurm can't use some of the trick most other games use c++ vs java

There is no simple answer but there is a overage of items

Limiting does shrink he sandbox. But limiting with a fine touch does less damage vs a hard nerf

" may edit later to clean up the post. Typing on a phone sucks "

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The animations gives wurm a bunch of atmosphere wherever they appear.

Rolf isn´t to blame for a "step back" caused by crappy PCs.

I don´t say that the performance of wurm can´t be better, but the annimations are a BIG step forward,

and nothing else but that.

PS: if anyone want to compare Wurm to another MMO then please to another MMO which is programmed on Java... i mean... its Java...

Please... I can run crysis 3 on the highest settings with about 30-40fps yet i struggle to run wurm on the highest? Crappy PC? I dont think so.. Poor optimization? Yes kinda but its also java...

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Just add in the suggestion that was made a month ago in the Q&A, make a poor mans mode for people who's PC's aren't the greatest and allow old player and creature models as an option. People could still use the new player models if wanted, this would solve a lot of lag issues for people and would make a huge percent of players happy.

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Please... I can run crysis 3 on the highest settings with about 30-40fps yet i struggle to run wurm on the highest? Crappy PC? I dont think so.. Poor optimization? Yes kinda but its also java...

You can't really compare the two, and shame for trying. A single player FPS is maybe the most optomized game type there is. There is nothing on your screen that the devs haven't accounted for and trimmed, tweaked and voodoo'd into submission before your video card even touches it.

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You can't really compare the two, and shame for trying. A single player FPS is maybe the most optomized game type there is. There is nothing on your screen that the devs haven't accounted for and trimmed, tweaked and voodoo'd into submission before your video card even touches it.

The question is not how optimized Wurm is compared to Crysis, but whether it is the lack of properly optimized animation OR the hardware on users end that is at fault. Sure, Wurm is "decent" compared to everything, but there is still lots to be done

Edited by san_tropez

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I dont know, but I keep feeling this undertone, that he is somewhat very annoyed with us because we complain so much and wants us to know how hard it is to get a game running smoothly without lowering the freedom we have.

And challeging us to show examples of games that run smoother with even more freedom attached.

Could be just me tho, reading to much between the lines.

That would make sense. And while I agree with Rolf and the crew that developing and running a game like has got to be a headache a lot of the time, I just don't think the questions that he opened the thread with are the right questions due to how sprawling their concerns are. :)

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Rolf, a reason we play wurm is because its not so much like MMOs but now you're asking us to compared wurm to other MMOs????

Yeah, its a bit concerning. Every nerf in Wurm concerning how many animals/items we are allowed to have just brings Wurm one step further those other MMO's and one step further away from being the most unique and best MMO there is. I'll post a statistic later explaining why the animal cap is really set very unrealistically low.

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Xsyon------- Unlimited. Also since ur takin this trolly, Xsyon has a better house customization ie. there we can really do some wicked neat multistory designs. games had this since launch. there is no limit to wat we can have on tribe, inside the homes, Basically, if it fits, it stays :-P But then again Rolf, wurm uses java and is based on cubes. mine craft also. Xsyon is a full 3d game and looks great. It just lacks wat wurm has, farming (which is about to go live on xsyon) then combat is still being tweaked yet in its broken state blows wurms out of the water, but then again wurm doesn't really have one. Wurm wins in the end due to mining,making boats and priests. For now that is. one day xsyon will have these things and if it doesn't, wont be long till someone else does. So Rolf, you should make housing have more decorations, more custumizations and we play wurm for 1 reason, freedom, which is slowly poofing. You can not say your a unlimited sandbox when ya got limitations, but for animals I can understands, but this games needs a serious database and hardware overhaul as you cant Handle a 2k pop. the spawn rates speak it all..lol. So yea theres my 2 cents, your not the only game that's a sandbox Rolf. Also to remind you Second Life is the sandbox king and you can do literally everything in that game, you name it and it can be done. that's true freedom, though I don't want to see wurm like second life, but still just sayin players enjoy more to do, more customization and more to explore.

I have to agree Xsyon is the closest thing to wurm that I have played but when I was there it had more issues then we have here. They had horrible creature spawns and AI along with bad loading times and DC it got to be to much for me and I had to quit. I do like aspects of that game though and see its potential but if wurm keeps going with their development I don't think anyone will ever catch them without a huge budget to work with. Edited by Kegan

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Just add in the suggestion that was made a month ago in the Q&A, make a poor mans mode for people who's PC's aren't the greatest and allow old player and creature models as an option. People could still use the new player models if wanted, this would solve a lot of lag issues for people and would make a huge percent of players happy.

This would help us so much more than fixing minority alt and merchant problems.

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FYI: Try to change the settings in your graphics control panel, Anisotropic filtering 2x or off, Antialiasing 2x or off and lower other settings too.

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FYI: Try to change the settings in your graphics control panel, Anisotropic filtering 2x or off, Antialiasing 2x or off and lower other settings too.

I've had those off since before 1.0 :unsure:

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Ultima Online has thousands of items potentially on screen at a time, it has visible armor and it is a true MMO. That game allows placing items on the ground, on walls,on tables etc. It's a 2D game though, but it has been handling this since 1997. Does it lag? Yes :)

Btw, entering line breaks doesn't seem to work using IE 10 on this forum :(

Edited by Torgrim

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A lot of people say they don't want barns because they want to see the animals, I think an animal stable that you basically hitch the animal into the stall which turns it "off " might help. That way everyone can still see all their pretty ponies or whatever and still right click to interact with them but they will just be objects standing there. I guess what I'm getting at is that instead of nerfing and making things more painful for the players, figure out a way to work it out differently.

Then again I still have villagemates that can barely play if they get near my dozen or so statues so what can you do?

The animations are neat and stuff but I turned them all off and play on low settings too.

Edited by Depends
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Since many of you seem to have problems understanding why we sometimes discuss nerfs when it comes to the number of items and/or animals available to you per area, I would like to see some numbers from other MMO games.

As you probably know, you can't compare Wurm to any other MMO or game out there. Why? Because we have so many skills, so many things we can do, almost unlimited creativity and terraforming and this makes Wurm Online a unique and brilliant game.

Maybe something needs to be done, but lets play with numbers first. I picked Deliverance as thats where I live. The server graphs can be found here: http://freedom002.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/

Deliverance has about 700 premium players at the moment, I can't find a way to tell how many free players there are, but that would be difficult to use anyway since so many people use free alts for crafting, mining or as storage alts etc. There are 760.000 non-coins items which is not much more than 1000 per player which actually is lower than I expected, considering the many skills we can do and how advanced crafting is compared to other games. The graph shows almost 400.000 coins from what I can see, so is there really a reason to keep each coin as a seperate namable item in the database? There are still some things that are quite easy to fix to lower the item database numbers, like making more items combinable or bsb'able so I won't waste more time on that.

The non-aggro cap is 10000 animals. Non-aggro covers horses, cattle, hens, roosters, pheasants, pigs, dogs, unicorns and deer. 10000 animals is 14 animals per premium player AND to cover the 4 million tiles of the server for roaming wildlife to kill and for new players to find. Thats not nearly enough but if it is really not possible to raise that cap, we need to think about solutions. Removing breeding would be the obvious one, but not sure how many players will be lost on that one though.

How about some creative solutions, like a seperate cap for animals bred in captivity or penned, so we at least have some non-aggros roaming the server? How about removing all the caps and have some intelligent code that regulates amount of animals per region of the server, and also making animals stuck on rock tiles or in caves die of starvation? I am not a big fan of the barn solution, because I don't think it will get used much. Most people breed animals because they want to look at the animals, not just some numbers in a container.

My personal favorite idea at the moment would probably be to try to raise the Care for limit by a factor of 5 or 10 and make all animals, aggro or non-aggro, die within 14 days or a month. That would also solve the problem with animals stuck on cliff sides or in caves for eternity.

The worst thing to do is make some quick nerf that will alienate a large part of the playerbase. Please think about what is the best long-term solution for Wurm Online.

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So - please provide statistics from other games about items on ground you can see, items in inventory, number of pets, number of creatures you can control, etc.

re: items on the ground. There are a handful of games that allow you to drop stuff on the ground of your house - (Rift, EQ2, Vanguard, to name a few). The limits on most of these are the over all 'limit' of your housing area. So 500-1,000 items (unique to each game and what they can handle) per house. Wurm doesn't really have a lot of 'decoration' items. If I drop items on the ground they form a pile (not all items, I know). So If I want a bunch of flowers strewn across my house, and a pelt and a rug for make shift carpets, it's impossible. In Wurm houses are used for storage and crafting, they're not really made for decoration (imo). We can't put things on the wall, can't put things on a table.

re: animals in an area. If players are supposed to play a certain way, and restrict how many animals they can have in an area, then you have to set that in stone some place and make it a rule. Breeding has always been a really key and unique factor of Wurm, but it should NOT be at the expense of the wild animals we find on server. If you're going to restrict it, then take away AH, milking, cheese, and change how we get leather.You can't give people all these skills to work on that require animals and then say "oh, but you can only have 2 horses." - what is the point of adding all these fancy graphics and what not if half the players never get to SEE them. We STILL have no bison on two servers!

re: Inventory. Other games, have inventory bags. Lets say 5-12 slots where bags go. Then bags can have 4-100 spaces, where items go. The main difference between wurm and every other game is that items stack and count as 1 stack instead of counting as 20 individual items. Lets say I'm carrying 50 nails. That should count as 1 stack of nails (keep weight restrictions in place), and 1 / 100 items. Not 50 / 100 items.

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/snip

My personal favorite idea at the moment would probably be to try to raise the Care for limit by a factor of 5 or 10 and make all animals, aggro or non-aggro, die within 14 days or a month. That would also solve the problem with animals stuck on cliff sides or in caves for eternity.

/snip

I think one big problem with this suggestion is.. current system creates old abandoned mines infested with creatures.. that means they are dangerous places as old mines should be. Would be a shame, if this would be changed.

Maybe it is not the best idea, but I know Darkfall had a system, which spawned NPCs only when players were close. Maybe that would help in Wurm, especially with creatures in all those abandoned places. Just save them to a database and load them only when someone enters the area.

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My personal favorite idea at the moment would probably be to try to raise the Care for limit by a factor of 5 or 10 and make all animals, aggro or non-aggro, die within 14 days or a month. That would also solve the problem with animals stuck on cliff sides or in caves for eternity.

I dont got many horses (nine or ten), but i love them.

If all my animals get killed in a short time-period, i sell my gold and take my last wurm-break, my final one.

Edited by Void
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As requested a Java based game to compare, regardless I still enjoy Wurm Online and prefer the complete sandbox appeal there is but as Rolf requested heres a quick run down.

Runescape:

Java based browser game:

"There are currently about a total of 8,300 items in-game. Around 4600 of them are untradeable. There are 47 items who don't have a function and are useless."

"There are currently 1086 monsters in the database. Updates to the database will usually be made without announcement."

Items per "tile" are unlimited and show as a pile.

"Members can freely use the full 536 bank slots."

"They are also able to store free items in their free bank space up to a limit of 68"

Houses are "instances" on a seperate map to the main one via portal as are the majority of PVP areas.

Total Players: 200 million adventurers

gielinor_region_map-12114914-800px.jpg

the-tree-gnome-stronghold-screenshot.jpg

the-dark-warriors-fortress-screenshot.jpg

All images and articles are from www.runescape.com

"This website and its contents are copyright © 1999 - 2013 Jagex Ltd"

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