Elevation Logoff Timer On Deed And Stronger Guards

[Rolf 3,563]

PvP on Elevation is supposed to be based on hunting for rewards and loot. This is why focus is on rewards there and will be tweaked upwards until they are satisfying.

Equipment is a means to achieve those rewards, but of course also function as rewards in themselves. When playing on Elevation you are however supposed to be prepared to sacrifice your equipment at the table so to speak, as if betting in poker. This will increase the rewards for everyone.

I suggest that we add something like an hour logoff timer when logging off on deed. We need to combine this with a lot stronger guards.

The reason is of course that we have no idea who is an alt or not. It will also encourage you to stay and fight or run away.

It should also be possible to defend alone and make a difference against attackers, possibly knocking one or two off together with the guards. It should be fun and rewarding to defend, and attackers should have to want to use their best equipment when raiding.

[Protunia 735]

Now this sounds more fair and might encourage someone to stay and fight knowing they have a chance to actually beat attackers and save their gear. How you adjust and implement it will be the key to its success.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Protunia

[Bart 954]

I like the sound of this, having been an attacker and a defender, I like the idea of guards being actually worth the money I pay for them. Only thing I would day is make them stronger in smaller numbers but weaker as you get more of them, otherwise I forsee deeds with 20 guards demolishing raiders, they should help, but not fight the battle for you

[KalinMenajin 100]

The principal of the idea has a good basis..

People don't raid often since it's not rewarding and defenders don't stick around since they got their items safe,so they logout instead.

-But it's not the items they carry that affect this. (they usually travel light anyway with a set or 2 of basic PvP gear)

It is the safety of alt-storages.

"If I have my stuff stored safely, I'll just swap to crappy gear while on deed and not care about token looting "

I kinda feel that it's the opposite that should work: Make available for looting items that have been on a char inactive for too long. Storages made less safe, need to defend the deed greater. Simple.

Plus it would address things like, having dozens of alts sitting forever on valuable looted items and players who quit holding on to loot forever gone from the server.

I should also mention that stronger guards would just make small raids even more scarce and large raids don't happen that often. Maybe -what? 1-2 per month?

Successful large raids were like.. 4 in past 3 months?

I think large deed owners should state more valuable opinion than mine but that's just 2c by me.

[Redd 4,281]

Whatever you do rolf, Chaos doesnt want it.

Just so you know.

[Protunia 735]

I like the sound of this, having been an attacker and a defender, I like the idea of guards being actually worth the money I pay for them. Only thing I would day is make them stronger in smaller numbers but weaker as you get more of them, otherwise I forsee deeds with 20 guards demolishing raiders, they should help, but not fight the battle for you

i don't see many deeds paying 60s a month regardless.

You could scale spawn timer based on number of guards.

You could also have an increased cost based system for more and more guards starting lower then going higher.

You could base it on deed size or population for the number of guards you could hire like having citizens.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Protunia

[Entendu 1,197]

Edited March 22, 2013 by Entendu

[Ruger 610]

Explain hour log off timer.

You mean my window is closed but my character is sitting there for an hour? My window is open and I cant log off for an hour. Enemy comes into local and triggers a timer says I cant log off for an hour. You need to explain this more because right now how it sounds is terrible and if thats the case right now, okay, I will run out the back door to off deed and log out instantly rather then wait an hour. Either way, its a terrible idea. However, guards need a buff anyways. They are weak as hell. Always have been and not really worth the money.

So explain more.

Also wasn't it you that said "forum polls are horrible way to get opinions from the players as it isnt a complete picture". I believe it was. How bout you start implementing a ingame poll system to actually get feedback from your players. I know you can do it and I know it wouldnt be difficult to do, so you should do that because not only could it be used here in this situation but it could be used in many more situations in the future.

Edit: Isnt it already set to where you cant log out if enemy is in local anyways?

Edited March 22, 2013 by Ruger

[Archaegeo 136]

I know Elevation is pristine only, but until you fix the issue of people making throwaway alts who have no risk all reward for attackign a main character as a group, Ill stay away from pvp.

(Since the game is free to play, people can make 5 alts per email address, so get 3 people together, thats a swarm of 15 attacking 1, with those 15 having newbie tools only, and the 1 having loot to lose, yes, its hard to coordinate 5 at once, but not when bashing or doing other nefarious deeds, and you can get 10 people together on throw away alts and they just go a ganking for all reward, no risk)

[vinius 1,496]

No

So you basically want guards to be stronger, thus discouraging more raiding?

Let me show you the new meta:

Log out in a mine with a 90QL steel door, 4 guards so enemy champs can't get points, yet being effective enough to hold off most small to medium raid parties.

I know Elevation is pristine only, but until you fix the issue of people making throwaway alts who have no risk all reward for attackign a main character as a group, Ill stay away from pvp.

(Since the game is free to play, people can make 5 alts per email address, so get 3 people together, thats a swarm of 15 attacking 1, with those 15 having newbie tools only, and the 1 having loot to lose, yes, its hard to coordinate 5 at once, but not when bashing or doing other nefarious deeds, and you can get 10 people together on throw away alts and they just go a ganking for all reward, no risk)

This is the stupidest thing I have read all day

[Manny 380]

I know Elevation is pristine only, but until you fix the issue of people making throwaway alts who have no risk all reward for attackign a main character as a group, Ill stay away from pvp.

(Since the game is free to play, people can make 5 alts per email address, so get 3 people together, thats a swarm of 15 attacking 1, with those 15 having newbie tools only, and the 1 having loot to lose, yes, its hard to coordinate 5 at once, but not when bashing or doing other nefarious deeds, and you can get 10 people together on throw away alts and they just go a ganking for all reward, no risk)

Elevation is premium only

[Bart 954]

i don't see many deeds paying 60s a month regardless.

You could scale spawn timer based on number of guards.

You could also have an increased cost based system for more and more guards starting lower then going higher.

You could base it on deed size or population for the number of guards you could hire like having citizens.

Only 30 silver with capitol bonus, but I see your point

[MrGARY 12,421]

All I'm seeing here, is taking something that could use fine tuning, and just smashing it into one hell of a mess instead. One whole hour to log off, even on your own deed, that's incredible. One person buzzes local and leaves, now you have to wait an hour? Or someone just constantly comes into local to keep the logoff timer at an hour? Easy "griefing" imo.

Making guards harder doesn't help either. Makes it less "fun", and people just won't bother unless they have a huge force, and then the defenders are forced to die.

Not everyone can stay online and fight. A noob with 20fs and a new deed isn't going to be able to fight off a mere sailboat worth of enemy, should he be forced to die and hand over everything he has, because logging off to escape takes an hour? I don't see good new player retention with this.

I've had people log off at deeds I've raided, I don't really care, it happens, sometimes it is just necessary. Big raid force shows up at little deed, big raid force whips out a bunch of catapults, starts wrecking the place. They got large mauls, mine doors don't stand a chance. So first the deed's gonna get wrecked, and now the player is literally forced to suicide and lose everything on them because it'll take an absurd amount of time to just log off? That's just brutal and unfair. Yes, it's a pvp server, and we should pvp, but we shouldn't be lining up in front of a meat grinder without choice.

Seriously, this doesn't need changing right now, fine tuning is nice, but creating major problems like this isn't necessary when there is so much more that really does need fixing.

[Protunia 735]

If the attacker leaves local the timer should reset.

[Fooligun 591]

This is a bad idea.

I have a question, would this be implemented on Chaos as well?

The reason I think this is a bad idea is because it will affect smaller deeds on Epic which lack the defences to hold off for an hour, basically making them dead unless they have a safe mine to log off in. I agree the ability to use alts etc to keep gear logged off is as bad as the merchant issue, however this won't stop people from using alts to hold everything, only logging them on to take an item from them and logging them back off. If people really want to be kept safe, they will pay for safety with a huge deed and lots of guards no matter how much it costs and this won't affect them.

The addition of merchants being "threatened" has made previous long-term merchant sites useless, this will simply cause people to move into a single large deed and if anything kill PVP because of it.

[Entendu 1,197]

You're putting a tourniquet on something that doesn't actually need it. YOU are causing more harm than good and I suggest you reevaluate your plans and go a different route.

1. Log off timer -- This is stupid and is not needed. I would go back to the drawing board and talk to some trusted veterans on the Epic cluster.

2. Stronger guards - You clearly have not raided a deed with 20 guards. I have and it's not easy, and with 2-3 people defending, it's a lot harder.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Entendu

[Mattown 349]

i'd say it should have this timer only if the deed is under attacked so as soon as a player raises village alarm (or a tamed horse/pet) it will last for 15 minutes where you can log with a hour timer, if they're truely raiding then the timer should be reset over and over.

[Protunia 735]

This is a bad idea.

I have a question, would this be implemented on Chaos as well?

The reason I think this is a bad idea is because it will affect smaller deeds on Epic which lack the defences to hold off for an hour, basically making them dead unless they have a safe mine to log off in. I agree the ability to use alts etc to keep gear logged off is as bad as the merchant issue, however this won't stop people from using alts to hold everything, only logging them on to take an item from them and logging them back off. If people really want to be kept safe, they will pay for safety with a huge deed and lots of guards no matter how much it costs and this won't affect them.

The addition of merchants being "threatened" has made previous long-term merchant sites useless, this will simply cause people to move into a single large deed and if anything kill PVP because of it.

Thats the real question here.

What would it take to hold off say 5 attackers with their better gear for an hour on a basic small deed?

What would it take for the player(s) defending to want to stay and fight?

[Protunia 735]

2. Stronger guards - You clearly have not raided a deed with 20 guards. I have and it's not easy, and with 2-3 people defending, it's a lot harder.

Oh really so a tank cannot hold off that many guards? lol

From what I've heard they can tank many

Edited March 22, 2013 by Protunia

[Maximustehgreat 353]

Thats the real question here.

What would it take to hold off say 5 attackers with their better gear for an hour on a basic small deed?

What would it take for the player(s) defending to want to stay and fight?

Depending on how many catapults the raiders have, 2 at minimum can hold off a small group with 1 cata. The guys defending, 1 repairing walls, 1 hauling bricks.

so you are looking at 2 defenders per catapult.

Most raiders bring 2 to 5 catapults.

[Protunia 735]

Depending on how many catapults the raiders have, 2 at minimum can hold off a small group with 1 cata. The guys defending, 1 repairing walls, 1 hauling bricks.

so you are looking at 2 defenders per catapult.

Most raiders bring 2 to 5 catapults.

What about guards and how many it would take now to defend against 5 raiders if you had 2-3 defenders on.

Lets say they plasted through the walls and are coming through fighting.

Remember this is with their very best gear supposedly...

There needs to be honest feedback about the basic deed and players here.

Not oh such and such had uber deed with 20 guards those types are not the ones getting raided most I will bet.

If we base it on that standard most deeds will fail very quickly.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Protunia

[Maximustehgreat 353]

A minimum of 5 guards, that is if the 2-3 people there defending are putting effort in, and not loot hoarding scrambling for a bed.

But since the guards apparently got nerfed, maybe double that now.

[vinius 1,496]

What about guards and how many it would take now to defend against 5 raiders if you had 2-3 defenders on.

Lets say they plasted through the walls and are coming through fighting.

Remember this is with their very best gear supposedly...

1 or 2 guards, with a guard tower on deed

proper gate hopping and wall repairing, defenders have a huge advantage being it is their deed

[Protunia 735]

1 or 2 guards, with a guard tower on deed

proper gate hopping and wall repairing, defenders have a huge advantage being it is their deed

If they have such a huge advantage how come they are logging off?

Remember this change would be to make them stay and fight for an hour and possibly win.

They would also be losing all gear on them if they lose or log

Not just run away gate hop and hide or log off.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Protunia

[Redd 4,281]

Actually, Nadroj made a good point to me today.

I dont like how res stones work always even after you have activated one like a year ago. I think they should have something like a 1hr to 30min effect, so you can pop them when you are dying instead of just having the constant bonus.

Just thought i'd throw it in.