Penning Feedback

[Thorin 58]

So you can stop thinking that your highly detailed plan thought up by a couple people would have had the influence you seem to think you have, which if this thread had a poll on it would have been voted down overwhemingly. As usual Rolf did what he thought would solve the problems because he knows the code. sadly it was in response to a non-problem about someone running an archaic computer without using the fps tweaking features of the game, who overstated the problem in dramatic fashion by bending the ear of devs on irc, which should not be allowed.

Well Said Yarnevk !!

To all you "Chicken Littles" out there....guess the sky wasnt falling after all.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Thorin

[Protunia 735]

It was a good change if you keep more than 1 animal per 15 tiles it will have a higher chance of problems.

he made more animals spawn.

he lengthened being able to breed so soon

Now you will have to pay for more space to keep your ratio down if you want less problems.

[Cuddlekinz 18]

This is ridiculous, just because someone was a hoarder we all must be punished? I personally breed horses and supply the indy community with great horses and deals. I moved to a new 25X25 deed just so my 30 horses in my breeding program could have more room, if this isn't changed expect bad feedback from me. Did i mention i also work with a leather worker? Its important to have high number of animals if anyone expects to get a fair amount of leather. This change should have been posted on the client for everyone to have a chance to put their 2 cents in this had better change!

My horses alone have a huge pen that takes up half my deed! No more than 8 horses in a pen (each inner pen has a minimum of 20 tiles within it) i groom them daily and make sure they are well fed. I do not experience any lag, wolves, bears, wildcats, unicorns and spiders spawn around me daily!

Not everyone has time to spend their day combing through the forums to find this! Its a bunch of crap!

If I invest coin to make my own deed, to keep horses I paid for with cash, I expect to be allowed to keep them without complications. There are better things that could have implemented into the game rather than putting in something that was not in need of immediate attention.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Cuddlekinz

[Protunia 735]

This is ridiculous, just because someone was a hoarder we all must be punished? I personally breed horses and supply the indy community with great horses and deals. I moved to a new 25X25 deed just so my 30 horses in my breeding program could have more room, if this isn't changed expect bad feedback from me. Did i mention i also work with a leather worker? Its important to have high number of animals if anyone expects to get a fair amount of leather. This change should have been posted on the client for everyone to have a chance to put their 2 cents in this had better change!

My horses alone have a huge pen that takes up half my deed! No more than 8 horses in a pen (each inner pen has a minimum of 20 tiles within it) i groom them daily and make sure they are well fed. I do not experience any lag, wolves, bears, wildcats, unicorns and spiders spawn around me daily!

Not everyone has time to spend their day combing through the forums to find this! Its a bunch of crap!

Your deed size can have 41 without any problems.

[Cuddlekinz 18]

really? because my ratio is 10? so i dont see how that could work

[Protunia 735]

really? because my ratio is 10? so i dont see how that could work

25x25 deeded tiles is 625. divide by 15 is 41.6667

unless the ratio is different than 15 to 1 or you have more animals than you thought or less deed.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Protunia

[Neb 42]

This has been an issue for the past 4 years.

(Oracle bought Java and stopped developing JOGL, it is a community modded add-on)

Each new Graphics artist adds more and more polys (never less) and recently more animations.

Thus pushing up the min. spec PC required as Wurm pushes J-OGL to its limits.

Solution to GPU lag = Streamline the graphics (less poly), or move away from J-OGL.

I run a 1Gb-GPU, 4Gb-ram 3Ghz-i3, i can manage 2 clients.

I used to run 5 clients with a 512mb, 2Gb, 2Ghz - Thus I put far less Euro into the game than I did 4 years ago.

Sure the client is flexible however I can't remember when I last had a client on Max settings.

If Rolf want's more players to pay for better/more servers & more paid developers - then the minimum spec that's needed to play needs to be considered.

[dipse 231]

This has been an issue for the past 4 years.

(Oracle bought Java and stopped developing JOGL, it is a community modded add-on)

Each new Graphics artist adds more and more polys (never less) and recently more animations.

Thus pushing up the min. spec PC required as Wurm pushes J-OGL to its limits.

Solution to GPU lag = Streamline the graphics (less poly), or move away from J-OGL.

I run a 1Gb-GPU, 4Gb-ram 3Ghz-i3, i can manage 2 clients.

I used to run 5 clients with a 512mb, 2Gb, 2Ghz - Thus I put far less Euro into the game than I did 4 years ago.

Sure the client is flexible however I can't remember when I last had a client on Max settings.

If Rolf want's more players to pay for better/more servers & more paid developers - then the minimum spec that's needed to play needs to be considered.

The client does not use JOGL anymore.

[Keldun 335]

Linking disease to animal density in an area is a good and sensible game mechanic in and off itself.

Doesn't matter if it is needed for performance issues or not.

I also like the basic idea of linking the amount of animals an animal care taker can have to their AH skill, not as a perfomance stopgap, but as a agame mechanic suggestion. It's only natural that someone with more skill can take care of more animals at once.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Keldun

[alaskanbob 225]

This is ridiculous, just because someone was a hoarder we all must be punished? I personally breed horses and supply the indy community with great horses and deals. I moved to a new 25X25 deed just so my 30 horses in my breeding program could have more room, if this isn't changed expect bad feedback from me. Did i mention i also work with a leather worker? Its important to have high number of animals if anyone expects to get a fair amount of leather. This change should have been posted on the client for everyone to have a chance to put their 2 cents in this had better change!

My horses alone have a huge pen that takes up half my deed! No more than 8 horses in a pen (each inner pen has a minimum of 20 tiles within it) i groom them daily and make sure they are well fed. I do not experience any lag, wolves, bears, wildcats, unicorns and spiders spawn around me daily!

Not everyone has time to spend their day combing through the forums to find this! Its a bunch of crap!

If I invest coin to make my own deed, to keep horses I paid for with cash, I expect to be allowed to keep them without complications. There are better things that could have implemented into the game rather than putting in something that was not in need of immediate attention.

Welllllll with all these new critters leather shouldn't be a problem. I've nabbed 20 some odd hides before on hunting trips & dumped them in front of our leatherworker.

[Shidoni 84]

I never even saw this topic going until I looked in on the change today...as a breeder, I wanted to weigh in.

I have 36 horses. I'm about to acquire much more to help a friend. I know every one of them by name. I know their parents. I know their traits. I know their 'story'. Each one is individually significant to me. Each one gets groomed and properly cared for. If you've seen Breaking Point since I've acquired it, you know my animals are not in any way crowded.

I don't kill my animals. Ever. I refuse. Any animal born in my program is either given a home with someone who otherwise wouldn't have a horse or lives out it's life with me. Anyone active on Deli will tell you that I routinely give away my horses (you also can see a thread I made for a giveaway). I have never sold a single one even though they are good horses. People will also tell you I've been spending a lot of my own money to keep alive a friend's herd since they have been pulled away from Wurm.

I know many people can't and won't understand why I play how I play, but caring for my animals is pretty much the only thing I do on Wurm. I have Asperger's. And though that may not mean much to anyone, it makes me have fairly intense interests. For me, it's animals. I love that with proper care, documentation and time I can make a 5 speed horse who's ancestry I know by heart. It gives me something to focus on. Something I can control and protect.

I understand hording issues. I'm the first one to be saddened when I walk by a tiny deed with 2-4 horses piled on a single tile. I know this limits the ability of new players to get livestock. I don't want to be part of the problem. So I give away animals to new people whenever I can. That said, anything that ruins my ability to do what I love on Wurm will see me leave it. If I am forced to kill my animals simply because someone else doesn't feel about them how I do, I won't tolerate it. I don't like the way tons of people play. I think there is a lot of immoral and downright cruel activity that goes on, but I don't get to make that choice for other people. And you shouldn't for me.

[Alyeska 2,621]

And you shouldn't for me.

Sadly all it takes is an anonymous IRC account to get what you want.

[Cally 96]

This almost makes me wish I played a PVP server so I could devote my life to making that guy's life miserable D:

[Shidoni 84]

I've been thinking about this for a few hours because I do think there needs to be a solution, but this definitely is not it. So I came up with a few ideas that reward players who put effort into their animals, and hampers those who are 'hoarding' beyond their means.

1. Increase the gestation period for animals. This means less animals, less quickly.

2. A pregnant animal has a higher chance of miscarriage if it is not 'fat' and not groomed daily. This means people have to actually maintain their animals.

3. A pregnant animal has a much higher rate of miscarriage or death if the animal is venerable. This keeps people from 'caring' for an animal and breeding it indefinitely. It's also realistic. Animals have a prime breeding window.

4. Offspring should have to remain within a few tiles of their mothers until they enter their first growth stage. They will strive for their mothers as chickens do to hens. They cannot eat but from their mother. In this time the mother requires more food and should she drop below 'fat' will stop providing food to the foal.

These possible solutions don't 'punish' anyone. They make animal husbandry more rewarding, more realistic and more sustainable. It's more work than simply increasing the cap or making disease ridiculous, but making a game better for everyone requires work.

I understand people want to hunt. But their desire to hunt shouldn't mean I have to kill my animals because they can't. Focus should be on limiting the new animals and phasing out the aged, not slaughtering existent herds.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Shidoni

[alaskanbob 225]

I've been thinking about this for a few hours because I do think there needs to be a solution, but this definitely is not it. So I came up with a few ideas that reward players who put effort into their animals, and hampers those who are 'hoarding' beyond their means.

1. Increase the gestation period for animals. This means less animals, less quickly.

2. A pregnant animal has a higher chance of miscarriage if it is not 'fat' and not groomed daily. This means people have to actually maintain their animals.

3. A pregnant animal has a much higher rate of miscarriage or death if the animal is venerable. This keeps people from 'caring' for an animal and breeding it indefinitely. It's also realistic. Animals have a prime breeding window.

4. Offspring should have to remain within a few tiles of their mothers until they enter their first growth stage. They will strive for their mothers as chickens do to hens. They cannot eat but from their mother. In this time the mother requires more food and should she drop below 'fat' will stop providing food to the foal.

These possible solutions don't 'punish' anyone. They make animal husbandry more rewarding, more realistic and more sustainable. It's more work than simply increasing the cap or making disease ridiculous, but making a game better for everyone requires work.

I understand people want to hunt. But their desire to hunt shouldn't mean I have to kill my animals because they can't. Focus should be on limiting the new animals and phasing out the aged, not slaughtering existent herds.

That miiiiight work as well. Might force some people to have bigger pens though i.e. 2x2 instead of 1x2 just on the off chance that they can't get on that day and their animal goes buckwild on the grass. Which would in another sense force people to keep less animals.

[yarnevk 257]

I agree with Shidoni, there is a way to make animals take more effort and be more rewarding for those who love to play with the animals, but for those that are just in it for the product would hate. I already do everything on the list even though no mechanic exists in the game.

Those that are willing to work at it, devote the time and space are rewarded and can have as many critters as they can keep up with.

Those arguing to make it easier and simpler because that means you can have less animals to get the same result and the server needs less animals kept, are trying to fool others into allowing them to output a hell of a lot more product with hell of a lot more animals with the same workload they have now, with the real result they claimed more of the spawn cap for themselves.

[Thorin 58]

Shidoni, I like the fact that you tried to come up with a solution that didnt try and punish people for wanting to play the game. It is that kind of attitude that everyone should approach the game with. You are to be commended !

But, to be honest, I suspect that this issue has consumed about all the developer/Rolf time that it is going to get for now (just my opinion). There are a multitude of issues out there that all require attention by the staff from Wurm and as we know Rolf and his staff are spread very thin.

Maybe when they get back to looking at this issue again in the future, who knows ?

I really like your attitude though, well done.

[thenewcndo 528]

This change is ridiculous

[Protunia 735]

I think he already did the older than mature miscarriage or breeding with them thing awhile ago.

People didn't like not being able to get old or ven horses prego so he changed that back I think.

I'd have to look back when he was changing things last time and see what it was exactly.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Protunia

[Depends 220]

Need to have the ability added to groom ALL animals. I wouldn't mind disease being more aggressive if I could actually do anything about it other than dragging my animals to a separate pen and waiting for a week.

[rosedragon 2,282]

Need to have the ability added to groom ALL animals. I wouldn't mind disease being more aggressive if I could actually do anything about it other than dragging my animals to a separate pen and waiting for a week.

Humid drizzle is a fo spell that tend all farms and animals .. including curing animals disease.

[Protunia 735]

Humid drizzle is a fo spell that tend all farms and animals .. including curing animals disease.

Exactly this is why it has been so easy to have large herds you just run out cast cast cast and wala.

What is the timer on that spell? difficulty, favor cost, etc?

Humid drizzle

faith 21

favor 30

diff 20

Tile

tends to animals in an area

Also cures disease

Description

Humid drizzle is an area of effect spell that tends to (i.e. grooms) all animals in a radius of 4 tiles in every direction around the tile it is cast on. It also cures diseased animals.

This spell has a cooldown timer of 14 minutes.

Upon a successful cast, you receive messages in your chatlog describing every creature that is affected by the spell.

That means it covers 25 tiles.

So pretty much with a low level Fo priest all you do is breed never really have to worry about much at all.

So the change was actually a good one regarding the amount of animals on deeded tiles.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Protunia

[rosedragon 2,282]

Remember there is that delay and as people have said they found theirs animals dead when online the next day, it won't really be a saving grace unless you are active.

[Void 75]

The problem with what you're saying is...

solve what?

The only problem here is some guy who doesn't know how to adjust his settings and Rolf not understanding that the problem is the settings/client, not the freaking horses.

Exactly.

And all the known haters jump in like they always do on threads like this, like they do since years.

The 14-day-lifespan alone shows how resentful or mindless some people are.

Other people tell you that you need only 20 husbandry to take care for 9 or 10 animals, what shows that people argue without any knownledge what they talk about.

Hopefully Rolf realize what kind of people write this ######.

Also i doubt it when i see that Rolf make Threads like this.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Void

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

I appreciate this post, just want to comment a few things:

Lairs are good for people who want to hunt and gain fight skill.

Right. But - it's a bit unjust: One gets a lair of scared dogs, the other one gets greenish lava spiders, for months then. You can imagine who will be the unhappy one ...

And with a certain probability the one who gets the greenish lava spiders will hire 3 or more templars, effectively wasting those FS for the neighbors. :/

This is why I'd love to have the importance of lairs reduced, maybe with a slightly reduced spawning frequency, maybe with a shorter time to life. I'm sure it would be better for all of us, more players would be able to enjoy a good spawn.

Creatures currently feed on other creatures, but they butcher the corpses rather than burying them. Stuff really can last a long time starving though, but I dont think thats the issue

Leaving corpses can be an issue at least when it comes to the number of objects the client has to draw (Read this thread). And starving creatures living very long are a problem for sure, as soon as they spawn in abandoned and caved-in mines - they are not anymore available for the common hunter. And they are legion!

That would promote a leveling system, which doesn't really make sense when it comes to fighting. The areas nearer the spawns are also much more densely populated which would result in there being a lot less dogs, rats, and deer.

I'm sure this could be solved. I just cannot help to realize it's not the best of ideas to have a colored troll spawn where all the newbies start, and scared dogs out there in the wilderness, where every ambitious new player would get eaten a bazillion times trying to reach this spawn ...

That method of raiding money would mess up the epic servers pretty hard, and adding more farwalkers isn't the best idea either.

I'd not insist of farwalkers to be among the gifts

But maybe it would make the playground more level? Dunno.

I dont really see an issue with people penning animals, there are always going to be a wild creatures, you just have to find them, and that is part of hunting.

Qft!

Next one:

Large quantities of penned Hell Horses effect the aggressive cap, so therefore there is less hunting.

Correct. I'd not mind if they'd be removed by all servers but Epic (and maybe chaos), after all they don't really fit anyways. And for the PvE servers they're useless now anyways, after the nerf. Instead a lighthouse item, maybe? Or charmable lava spiders?

Besides, hunting is not only for Aggressives. Hunting is also killing deer, livestock, and unicorns for skill as well, which is also effected by penning.

I doubt you'd get much FS from those, besides unicorns, and they're all over the place, anyways ...

Finally:

Ironically, now that we finally again found anything other but those dreaded unicorn pest in the wilds, the numbers we can keep get nerfed. And to add icing to the cream, it seems that monsters caught in long forgotten caverns are counting, too ... Miners, get to work! ;-p

Have a good time!