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Rolf

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sorry, that answer doesnt seem complete enough to explain. So how do you think the game will handle sheep and other animals, seems too simplistic to me. More like there is a reluctance to expand the memeory capacity to handle the growing needs of the game... perhaps that is a more complete answer?

Edited by Thorin

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Problem: With the current caps you get like 13 non-aggro animals per player.

Also, my village has 5 active premium characters, we have like 30-40 animals (2 of the chars have 40+ AH, because i started breeding with my main, but then stopped grooming to give way to my fo priest).

If we go this way, for a village to provide animals for all, then everyone would have to be AHers? Should we start making it so that items are bound, and each one has to craft his own tools and gear? Why, we could just make this a single player, that would completely fix the server issues.

People here just keep making assumptions based on their own play style, well, newsflash, not everyone is like you, thank god!

EDIT: Although i quoted Kegan, this is not directed toward him.

Agreed !

This game was supposed to be out of beta, remember the big release? Hmmmm...cant even handle more horses? maybe its time to go back to the drawing board, shut the game down, and install a new engine, and re-release it when its up to the task...! (I say this with only some sarcasm)

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This is how surface mining got nerfed. Just sayin.

well from his post this one and the one about other mmos I am guessing it is going to be anyway it is best if we can work out a fair system before he does it for us.

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Suggestion 1:

Make is so an enclosure counts like a house of sorts. Only so many animals allowed in a specified enclosure size.

This would mean that people would need larger pens to keep their animals which would mean more care of the tiles and the fences.

Not sure if this is a bit extreme but maybe someone has a variation in mind. Only problem would be people walling off half the server. If the enclosure size was limited somehow?? Maybe could work.

Suggestion 2:

People if they take care of their animals regularly should be able to have as many as they like. i do however think maybe that animals that are not taken care of should get ill and die or something maybe a bit sooner.

BTW where are all the chicks gone. Have not had a single egg hatch in ages.

That is something i would like looked into.

Edited by Lolabelle

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Personally, I would like a clear answer from someone that actually works for Wurm, telling me why they think all the restrictions are so critical to the growth of this game!

No offence Kegan, but you seem to be bent on creating a solution, (a potentially harmful solution at that), when all Rolf asked in his orginal post was whether the guy who was running a toaster for a PC. should be taken seriously.... I am not sure how it has morphed into a cut and slash spree....

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Well here is what I have put together so far from the ideas we have been talking about..

1) The animal must be cared for by you to breed and can only breed with another animal cared for by you.

2) Any animal that goes uncared for all pregnancies will terminate.

3) Drop the inbreeding penalty.

4) All uncared for animals have a lifespan of 14 real life days.

5) Animals have to be cared for by the person branding them.

6) All deed members may breed each others animal as long as they are branded

7) F2P cared for animal can not be branded.

8) Branding is taken off when the animal becomes uncared for.

Rise the AH cared for cap to 3x-5x the current amount to be:

1-20 = 4 (max IMO maybe just 2 would be best?)

21 = 9-15

30 = 12-20

40 = 15-25

50 = 18-30

60 = 21-35

70 = 24-40

80 = 27-45

90 = 30-50

Like it or not I feel this is the best way to move forward IF we have to have change. Pick it apart as you may and the numbers can be tweaked to pull them in on what he needs but it seems fair to me.

Edit: Note: Young age will be put back to breeding age and the baby stage for foals and calves will remain unchanged to give time for sales.

Edited by Kegan

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Well here is what I have put together so far from the ideas we have been talking about..

1) The animal must be cared for by you to breed and can only breed with another animal cared for by you.

2) Any animal that goes uncared for all pregnancies will terminate.

3) Drop the inbreeding penalty.

4) All uncared for animals have a lifespan of 14 real life days.

5) Animals have to be cared for by the person branding them.

6) All deed members may breed each others animal as long as they are branded

7) F2P cared for animal can not be branded.

8) Branding is taken off when the animal becomes uncared for.

Rise the AH cared for cap to 3x-5x the current amount to be:

1-20 = 4 (max IMO)

21 = 9-15

30 = 12-20

40 = 15-25

50 = 18-30

60 = 21-35

70 = 24-40

80 = 27-45

90 = 30-50

Like it or not I feel this is the best way to move forward IF we have to have change. Pick it apart as you may and the numbers can be tweaked to pull them in on what he needs but it seems fair to me.

Edit: Note: Young age will be put back to breeding age and the baby stage for foals and calves will remain unchanged to give time for sales.

I like it. Lolabelle, I think like you that there should be no limit if people spend time to care for them, but I just think this compromise is better than the potential of harming casual players or players that take occasional breaks from the game and return to dead animals because they didn't log in for a week. A compromise is needed because from what I can read between the lines in Rolfs posts here and in Town Square is that its not possible to raise the caps, at least not by as much as is realistically required.

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You are gambling alot of people's enjoyment in this game by "reading between the lines" ! I dont think you should be speaking for Rolf, Wulfgar!, If its impossible to raise the caps, I want to hear it from Rolf, and I want to hear why!

Edited by Thorin

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I received this PM today and wonder what you think about the situation and if we should do something about it

<mib_nd83zy> i got 2 fps when passing this place today

<mib_nd83zy> pictures for you

<mib_nd83zy> http://imageshack.us...01303220625.png

<mib_nd83zy> http://imageshack.us...13032206252.png

<mib_nd83zy> http://imageshack.us...13032206251.png

<mib_nd83zy> excessive animal hoarding is really driving hunting in to the ground, plus causing lag issues i noticed

Hmm..seems to me like Rolf had a straight up,simple question.... do we take this guys post serious or not?

I have not heard the majority of people in this thread voice the same concern as this guy! Therefore, I say this particular concern is not one that deserves a knee-jerk reaction. Period!

Seems to me like you guys are adding your own agenda here, let Rolf speak for himself !

Edited by Thorin
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I would much rather like a larger animal cap above all else.

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@kegan: if you think we only have horses and mere cattles you are wrong.

Here is the tally of my animals:

12 horse foals, i wait them to maturity before culling the 3 traits and below, keep the 4 traits and above for selling.

22 horses -- 9 of them is breeding pairs, one is vene horse i kept, the rest is for selling. And believe me, I don't have enough for selling

17 deers -- my leather source

2 champion crocs, I plan to breed them to 5 or 6 -- pet for later, also to make my coloseum of deadly crocs.

1 champion bear, plan to breed her for a pet I can bring along

1 bear with two good traits.

5 dogs of different characteristic

2 pigs -- I kept them to make sure the island will have pigs.. if these are to die, then there is a chance that no more pigs on the island.

18 hellhorses -- still unable to get 5 speed from them.

3 cows -- I would love some cheese but these cows are not on my island so I rather to not have much of them and have to go back and forth for keeping them well-fed / milking them.

total 83 animals

Just got to 40 ah and I keep my pets well fed with both crops and meats. For the agros and dogs alone I can spend at least 30 fillets a day assuming I don't make them pregnant...

Edited by rosedragon

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One of my neighbours have tonns hell horses and regular animals that cause less than 10fps for me(have 70-78 normally).All 5 villagers have same problem on that place (5-15FPS ) - we need use low settings in our village.We strongly request to decrease penned amount, during it cause FPS problems.Maby best way to allow select old animals models in settings(if it possible)

But limits in sandbox games - limit our imagination.Limit animals today,Limit charcoal piles amount(yup it low FPS too) tomorrow,then limit maximum players on local areas..... That can be just temporary solution before optimization.

Edited by kazui

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One of my neighbours have tonns hell horses and regular animals that cause less than 10fps for me(have 70-78 normally).All 5 villagers have same problem on that place (5-15FPS ) - we need use low settings in our village.We strongly request to decrease penned amount, during it cause FPS problems.

Or, and I like this better, optimize the engine so that this isn't necessary.

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@kegan: if you think we only have horses and mere cattles you are wrong.

Here is the tally of my animals:

12 horse foals, i wait them to maturity before culling the 3 traits and below, keep the 4 traits and above for selling.

22 horses -- 9 of them is breeding pairs, one is vene horse i kept, the rest is for selling. And believe me, I don't have enough for selling

17 deers -- my leather source

2 champion crocs, I plan to breed them to 5 or 6 -- pet for later, also to make my coloseum of deadly crocs.

1 champion bear, plan to breed her for a pet I can bring along

1 bear with two good traits.

5 dogs of different characteristic

2 pigs -- I kept them to make sure the island will have pigs.. if these are to die, then there is a chance that no more pigs on the island.

18 hellhorses -- still unable to get 5 speed from them.

3 cows -- I would love some cheese but these cows are not on my island so I rather to not have much of them and have to go back and forth for keeping them well-fed / milking them.

total 83 animals

Just got to 40 ah and I keep my pets well fed with both crops and meats. For the agros and dogs alone I can spend at least 30 fillets a day assuming I don't make them pregnant...

I have over my limit too under the proposed system but if we are running at peak capacity and things need to change we will have to adapt. I would have to trim down my animals just like the rest of you but if it is needed then i would rather get to keep a few less then deal with extreme enchanted grass loss or some crazy disease that he puts in to try to "fix" it.

Edited by Kegan

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Over the years i have proposed the following idea to many players/CA/GM

I add it now for you to discuss, but this is only the basics - the intention was to introduce a limit with little alteration to game play.

Branding an animal makes it a Citizen of the village (This limit never gets used presently and can be tweaked easily to balance)

Champions = 4citizens, Traited = 3, Horse & Deer etc = 2, Pigs & Cats = 1citizen.

Non branded animals will simply escape, (exceptions being pets and newborns)

Negatives - breeding is now premi/deed only or requires 2 froob players interacting with their pets.

I hope this could provide funds for better servers for a greater animal limit.

Ill add more details in the AM when i've had time to check my logs for the discussions.

Edited by Neb

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Loving that idea Neb, it kinda make sure that you can only put as much as the deed size allow.. 'we buy the land so we are allowed to have four legged villagers'. Thing is, branding atm means that the animals can't be sold, that one have to be solved. Considering froobs atm not even ride or hitch horses (they can for cows), I think this could works with some considerateable tweaks.

Like.. maybe care for can be used by froobs to take care a single animal. Think of it, even me that nuts making 14 alts won't make 100 alts just for my animals.. I would though, use 10-20 alts to hold on some animals if I happen to reach the limit and can't expand yet. Which, I do unable to expand due to deed expansion need to go both ways.

I still would insist that the 'lag around animals' is not the problem. If people lags around 50-100 animals, what happen when they gather around with other players. Of course, it happen like the recent impalong.. many people can't attend it due to the lag. Neither hoarding these animals affect spawning so much (please a dev clarify if neutral and agros have different spawn cap or not), because independence as the oldest server have many many many penned animals but yet I can jump almost 20 fs by hunting this month. And it is not from single hunting ground, I know more than five places where mobs flourish. I am in the discussion to have a say about those, and to admit that too many animals means resources on the server.

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Making players able to keep much more of them and have them live even longer with 5-10x care for is asking for major problems and only makes it easy to keep super herds that live forever.

You would be better off limiting breeding time and getting rid of care for completely as the care for system has proven it does not make people keep less and has basically out lived its use. ( no pun intended ) ;)

All that would happen is alts would be used to care for even larger herds.

I am also more in favor ( removing care for ) of the grooming timer being reduced as that would give players more chance to skill as well as prove they enjoy grooming and caring for their animals.

I am not in favor of removing bad traits at all.

Edited by Protunia

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Protunia: a few of us have sentiment upon 'our first horse' 'our first pet' to 'the retired guy legacy', believe or not the care for system have been used for this.

Anyone crazy enough to create 100 alts and run them through the tutorial? I would suggest the froobs need to tame the animals to make them stay but you know how good tamed animals vs mobs are...

Oh there is another solution, an untame feature. So froobs can tame a single animal when they going to log out, and when they log back in they untame the animal to be able to bring it along.

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Protunia: a few of us have sentiment upon 'our first horse' 'our first pet' to 'the retired guy legacy', believe or not the care for system have been used for this.

Anyone crazy enough to create 100 alts and run them through the tutorial? I would suggest the froobs need to tame the animals to make them stay but you know how good tamed animals vs mobs are...

Oh there is another solution, an untame feature. So froobs can tame a single animal when they going to log out, and when they log back in they untame the animal to be able to bring it along.

Thats fine.....but it is not being used for that mostly.

If you do this 5x carefor they will use alts and the animal cap for spawning will decrease even faster.

Some people think ALL of them are their "first" and will do anything to ensure none of them ever die.

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The thing that the accelerated death does it not only speeds up uncared for animal deaths kept on deeds but also all the ones trapped in caves stuck on mountains or even just in remote locations that no one goes. If we keep the cared for thing to slow the dying process on the ones we do care for that would keep the good ones safe. If we have to just stop F2P alts from even being able to care for any to avoid loop holes then fine they would just have to get new animal ever 14 days from the wild. Then If a paid alt goes back to f2p after caring for animals any animals that he was caring for gets dropped as his skills fall to under 20 and the faster death starts on those animals. This way you either have to level your AH or pay for the extra space each month by paying for the alts and leveling their AH up too. The numbers we are talking about is not that bad 15-25 at 40 AH that is not that bad plus if you work on it and get to 70 you get 24-40 but the faster death will help rotate out the wild stock of all the animal and that will make a huge difference.

Edited by Kegan

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21 = 9-15

30 = 12-20

40 = 15-25

Do you really think its that hard to get an alt up to 40 AH if you already have a large amount?

With 80-90coc casts being as cheap as they are?

If they have already prem'd and let it expire are you 100% sure that those animals lose cared for status?

The problem is too many animals living longer in pens not ones stuck in the wild, because they are not spawning in the wild.

The only thing at this point that will work is slowing down player spawned animals in pens.

Unless of course you can get Rolf to raise the cap for animals then that would kick the can down the road for awhile.

I still don't know if you would see many non aggros spawning in the wild if you raised the cap.

Maybe for a couple weeks but they would gather them up and care for them as fast as possible and breed them as fast as possible.

Just like the Items per Tile limit now we are heading right down the same path with non aggro animals.

Anyhow you have to reduce player spawned and kept animals unless you raise the cap.

How ever you can come with a solution its going to get someone mad because they can't keep their 60+ 80+ 100+ animals as easy.

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I still would insist that the 'lag around animals' is not the problem. If people lags around 50-100 animals, what happen when they gather around with other players.

Exactly. I have around a hundred horses in my village as I breed them to sell and my crappy laptop on low settings still does fine getting 20-30FPS. I get into a PvP encounter with more than 2 dozen players in local and my desktop machine on low settings has its Java process completely lock up and go unresponsive forcing me to restart the game. To fix this issue should we consider causing random disease and sickness to players too clustered to get them to spread out :P?

And stuff like this really makes me wish there was a bigger separation between code bases between PvE and PvP servers. This isn't even a problem on my server. Heck I get stupid non aggressive animals spawning within my walls regularly trampling my farm crops I don't even have to leave home to find them. But I get the feeling any changes made to try and lower animal counts is going to very negatively impact me and keeping animals is already a large amount of extra work due to the nature of a PvP server and ensuring they are well protected and that I'm covered in case of a raid.

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Blog:

Animal numbers were increased by 10 000 on most servers as cared for and bred animals now will move less often

Ha, i knew it. It is the movement that requires the limit (;

also:

The tiles per non-human animal or monster on a deed is now considered. Disease spreads a bit easier if you have a higher ratio than 15 tiles, and you will see a bit more miscarriage. The ratio is shown for citizens in Village Info. Also in general, animals that just gave birth will not be in the mood for another mating for about 24 hours or the next restart.

that might be a problem for some of those ranch deeds, but for me, with combined housing, farms and pens it barely matters. One could put the less important animals on perimeter enclosures though.

Edited by Keldun

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  • Animal numbers were increased by 10 000 on most servers as cared for and bred animals now will move less often
  • The tiles per non-human animal or monster on a deed is now considered. Disease spreads a bit easier if you have a higher ratio than 15 tiles, and you will see a bit more miscarriage. The ratio is shown for citizens in Village Info. Also in general, animals that just gave birth will not be in the mood for another mating for about 24 hours or the next restart.

So you can stop thinking that your highly detailed plan thought up by a couple people would have had the influence you seem to think you have, which if this thread had a poll on it would have been voted down overwhemingly. As usual Rolf did what he thought would solve the problems because he knows the code. sadly it was in response to a non-problem about someone running an archaic computer without using the fps tweaking features of the game, who overstated the problem in dramatic fashion by bending the ear of devs on irc, which should not be allowed.

I find it ironic that the major feature of 1.0 being creature animations with better AI for moving around was proven to not be an optimized feature and now has been significantly nerfed. Why add it in the first place just to bring back the puppets on a stick. On the bright side my dogs will now hold still so I do not have to chase them around the pen with a brush, at least this change still allows me to brush my dogs that I enjoy despite this idiotic proposal to nerf that by those who already ground out AH ages ago.

Edited by yarnevk
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Well Yarnevk when this 10k get penned don’t be surprised if this conversation comes up again. Personally I think the extra 10k gives the team a little time to work out what to do with unlimited penning of animals.

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