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Kegan

Account Sales - Are We Protected?

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With the resent account fiasco I was put in when trying to buy an account got me thinking is buying an account really safe anymore? I know that the staff might not be able to reveal how they do things but what is stopping an old player coming back lets say a year or two later and saying hey my account was stolen? How does one secure themselves when making legitimate purchases? Will the account always default back to the maker if you don't have proof of ownership with saved pm or something? With everyone buying accounts and the amount we pay for them (sometimes can be hundreds of dollars) are we really safe in the end? What are your thoughts and experiences on the deal and maybe a GM can come in on this and give a little walkthrough on how to make safe purchases that will hold up with the staff?

In the end is it always going to revert back the maker and we are just relying on the makers merit to not make future claims?

Edited by Kegan
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Change the password, change the email, save proof of your paypall transactions and other logs, and make sure to pay some premium from your own paypal account right away. Other than that, there are no ways the prove you own an account. There is a thread in the game rules about it; specifically point 4; http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/6089-character-buying-selling/

4/ How you conduct any transaction is entirely up to you ,and we have no advice or association in any such transactions.

Remember at the end of the day there is no insurance and its entirely buyer beware.

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keep logs of transaction, change email, change password.

Outside of that account sales are not covered by rules.

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I have bought an account and years later had it stolen back by the original owner.

Account buying and selling is at your own risk.

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In the end is it always going to revert back the maker and we are just relying on the makers merit as to not make future clams?
No, this isn't how it works, and as others have said - no, there's no guarantee of protection. However, if you keep logs, pics etc etc. of any purchase and ensure you change registered e-mails and passwords etc. as soon as you gain possession you will usually be fine. However, there's no 100% safe way.
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Honestly is someone quits playing for a year and comes back and says someone stole my account and there is proof of it being sold they should be told to start a new character. Not doing that would be a good way to have your company reflected negativly and put an end to some good paying customers. I think Eve has a good rule where the person selling and buying posts in the same thread and that locks the account sale forever. Original owner gives character to blank, blank sells character to blank. There is a running thread of ownership. All accounts sold before x date are final and no research will be done. If you own the character on 3/21 it is yours. Any future transactions not made by the new rules could result in the loss of your character. All characters who are passed on to a friend must be done so in the forums to show new ownership as well as sales / auctions. This system would provide safety for all involved.

Edited by KleverMonkey
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I have bought an account and years later had it stolen back by the original owner.

Account buying and selling is at your own risk.

That sounds pretty rough how in the world did you let it happen?

I always set up any account with a new password and new email thats generic so the person can change those.

If someone changes the email and password that should be enough.

The only thing that bugs me is people cannot change the question for redoing the challenge question and password or can you???

I would think there should be a way for the account holder to change the question and answer.

Edited by Protunia

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Honestly is someone quits playing for a year and comes back and says someone stole my account and there is proof of it being sold they should be told to start a new character. Not doing that would be a good way to have your company reflected negativly and put an end to some good paying customers. I think Eve has a good rule where the person selling and buying posts in the same thread and that locks the account sale forever. Original owner gives character to blank, blank sells character to blank. There is a running thread of ownership. All accounts sold before x date are final and no research will be done. If you own the character on 3/21 it is yours. Any future transactions not made by the new rules could result in the loss of your character. All characters who are passed on to a friend must be done so in the forums to show new ownership as well as sales / auctions. This system would provide safety for all involved.

This sounds like an interesting idea and a better way then we have now.

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Everything mentioned so far is valid, and there is no 'official' advice beyond what has already been stated or posted in the rules.

Just like any online transaction, do as much as you can to verify the integrity of the seller (this is a pretty tight community, ask around), try to conduct all conversations and discussions regarding the sale in the forum, forum PM, or some external method that allows for logs or transcripts. Be very clear in those discussions (i.e., "This message confirms that I am purchasing the Wurm Character 'Maxtheminer' for (3) Cheeseburgers and a Hat on 21 March 2013. Do you agree to these terms?"). IMMEDIATELY change the emails and passwords to any newly acquired accounts, and retain all Paypal records and make sure those transactions reference the character name in the notes. Then cross your fingers.

Always remember, if a deal seems sketchy, it probably is.

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Paypal receipts were sent in to GM's prove my account was indeed mine, I had played it for like 3 years, it was still given back to the original owner.

I am proof you can get robbed. Again, at your own risk.

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There should definitely be a way to protect the account after purchase. Other games I've played in the past make it take 2 weeks for a change in recovery information to protect account hacking and stealing. I think it would be easy and should definitely be added in some way. Asap.

Even if you got the account back... what about all items that could be looted if you are done for a few days for any reason. Could those be retrieved? To my understanding that is no, jw.

As a game that doesn't BAN account sales, they should have steps in place to keep buyers.and sellers protected.

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There should definitely be a way to protect the account after purchase. Other games I've played in the past make it take 2 weeks for a change in recovery information to protect account hacking and stealing. I think it would be easy and should definitely be added in some way. Asap.

Even if you got the account back... what about all items that could be looted if you are done for a few days for any reason. Could those be retrieved? To my understanding that is no, jw.

As a game that doesn't BAN account sales, they should have steps in place to keep buyers.and sellers protected.

its not banned, it is allowed either, sort of, it is at your own risk, its your choice to do it after all. A game like this at this moment can't support protection for account purchases 100% because there simply is no money for it. I don't see why any more protection should be there, if you got your facts, logs, payments etc correctly you can get it back if the owner wants to steal it back you have proof of purchase.

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So I have to keep records forever? And that doesn't stop the original owner from.regaining control until I notice it

If the GMs will Assist in helping get a.character.back after a sale.. the do allow it. There isn't a gray area.. they.do.or.they don't.. and they do...

And what kind of support is required in.making.the recovery changeable? I can't see it. It would save the GMs a lot of work because.after 2 weeks of the purchase everything is safe.. if there is a dispute it can only be within the 2 weeks after the sale therefore keeping records wont be an.issue and.everything will be relatively fresh.

Also we already have someone in this.thread claiming they had all proof and couldn't keep control.of a character at a decision.made by a GM.

There are so many holes in the way it.is.now... I put lot of money into this game.. only been playing since 1.0. And would like any accounts I purchase WHICH ISNT AGSINST THEIR RULES. To be MINE until I decide to gift them or sell them off.

Can someone with the knowledge of how their recovery system.works tell me why this wouldn't be easy to implement?

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So I have to keep records forever? And that doesn't stop the original owner from.regaining control until I notice it

If the GMs will Assist in helping get a.character.back after a sale.. the do allow it. There isn't a gray area.. they.do.or.they don't.. and they do...

If you change the password and email, how will they be able to log in the account to do harm? Even if they try to reset the password, the new password goes to your email - not theirs. If they call a gm to say "I never sold my account, someone stole it!" The account will be frozen to prevent anyone from doing harm and you will be contacted, rather than letting the person on the account. This is the timeframe where you present your screenshots, PMs, and logs to the staff team, and they try to help you as good as they can.

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The biggest problem with the current system is that there are several accounts that the old-timers know by name that have been through several owners already.

Who is to say that the original owner sold the account? Or, at least, how is the person at the end of the ownership tree going to prove continuity of sales?

But, there is abit of buyer beware and maximizing your case of ownership on an account that you did not start is about all we can do.

Try to remember that the GMs are mostly volunteers who have the thankless job of trying to figure some of these situations out.

Never buy what you can not afford to lose, there are no guarantees in game or in life.

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Paypal receipts were sent in to GM's prove my account was indeed mine, I had played it for like 3 years, it was still given back to the original owner.

I am proof you can get robbed. Again, at your own risk.

iirc you never changed the registration email tony :P

as an eperienced seller and buyer of accounts (owned over 30 accounts in total and sold about 15)

1) make an agreement with the seller, its just like a second hand tool or anything you're buying.

2) make a conclusion of what its about, if the player is in a hurry selling it for ½ of the normal value you gotta raise an eyebrow because it seems weird.

3) after you got the password the first thing you should do is change the password, change the email and ofcourse log the convertsation with the seller (including him saying the bank/paypal adress) and money transaction, i recommend Paypal for sending money because you can easily dispute the money and freeze it during the process

everything is ofcourse on your own risk, ofcourse you can loose it if you dont pay attention and Wurm online/ Code Club AB has it written in game rules that they do not take any resonesibility if something goes wrong. They may help you but you can never expect help.

Edited by Zazz

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As I posted in another thread, a village mate's account was stolen (along with everything they could pick up when they logged into the village) and sold.

He was basically told that since he couldn't prove he didn't sell the account himself, he couldn't have it back. As far as I know the account is still being played on Indy.

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No tommyt, actually I let him play on the account and he changed the password. No paypal receipts, or 3 years of premium payments was enough to convince the devs it was mine.

Hows that car lookin these days bro?

You buy/sell at your own risk. nothing you can do to make it perfectly secure except know who you are dealing with personally.

Edited by Suntzu

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No tommyt, actually I let him play on the account and he changed the password. No paypal receipts, or 3 years of premium payments was enough to convince the devs it was mine.

So he had the password all along, how could you prove you were in the owner, when you might have just been the caretaker, paying for premium while you played?

All the advice in this thread is valid. If you really do need to share accounts, password hashes can be used.

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So he had the password all along, how could you prove you were in the owner, when you might have just been the caretaker, paying for premium while you played?

All the advice in this thread is valid. If you really do need to share accounts, password hashes can be used.

This!

If you change the password and e-mail (can be conveniently done in-game) and don't give the ACTUAL password (but the hash stored on your computer - which the people you lend to will have to reproduce) you should be safe from getting account issues. But still lending an account will cause you trouble if you don't strictly know the person.

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Giving out the password hash gives little to no extra security in comparison to giving out the password.

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Giving out the password hash gives little to no extra security in comparison to giving out the password.

Can't change password or email.

Yes you can suicide the account, steal everything that character has access to, but you don't exactly give the hash to every person on your friends list.

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I had my account stolen by Ruger and he was asking me to buy back my acount from him but I've contacted a GM, sent him the paypal recipts about me paying prem for that account and everything was fine:D

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Can't change password or email.

Yes you can suicide the account, steal everything that character has access to, but you don't exactly give the hash to every person on your friends list.

# Changing the e-mail only requires the password of any existing accounts on the target email. It does not require the password of the current account, as you can read in the /help contents.

# The password 'hash' is stored in a very easy encryption. Notch only made it so that it wasn't stored in plain text.

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