Item Count Per Floor Level

[Silures 91]

I wish I knew a thing about Wurm occlusion but I don't. Unreal Engine uses something called static meshes, only one instance of something standard needs to load in a map (would be local in Wurm) and a mapper can spam the instance a thousand times with very little extra load, the mesh dimensions can also be changed however you like with these but it will always have the same polys. It's a natural way for Wurm objects to be used as every barrel is uniform, even the dimensions. UE also uses occlusion volumes and sheets, while these are created by the mapper, a tall wall would be an example of a perfect occlusion sheet where no object need be rendered that is behind the sheet from the camera viewpoint. One other similar occlusion method is zones, a house for example would be a natural place to zone, or the floors of a house. Nothing rendered inside until there is a visual between the FOV and the interior. As Wurm walls are standard too, it would be no problem putting pixel tight sheets over windows, doors and any other opening. This would be the method for a high poly count 3d engine crunching vast numbers. The Wurm leveled columnar engine should yield infinitely better results as it's so much more basic. Eg, the last example of a mapper zoning off 'all air' from a house with sheets isn't even needed, Wurm could zone the entire column (tile or tile level) instantly inside a house, objects and all if there's no visual to any of it. I'm struggling to find a reason why UE works like silk and Wurm doesn't. I hope this gives a few culling ideas anyway, UE might even use old ways that Wurm has surpassed for all I know A few methods in this vein and the appropriate efficient server client netcode and I think Wurm could have it all.

Btw, I'm sure everything outside the FOV is culled.in UE too, terrain and map polys but not sure on that one. Wurm seems to have each barrel individually in place ready by the sound of it, along with everything else within 6 tiles and plenty more in local prerendered. Dunno.

[Keldun 335]

Afaik Rolf doesn't have much of a clue about graphics and rendering, he is mostly doing program logic and game mechanics.

It's prefectly possible that he doesn't mean the actual "rendering" part as drawing the pictures on the screen, which Wurm actually seems to be doing quite well as far as I can tell.

The bigger problem seems to be loading the object data through network, keeping them in ram and telling the renderer which objects he has to process.

[joedobo 1,187]

Using the old method of potentially 100 decoration items per a tile could lead to this: 6 tile render range for house X 100 items per tile x 15 stories = 9,000 object request from a single client on the server data base ( correct me if I'm wrong) resulting from a player traveling one tile. I don't know how much data is held client side but I frequently walk far enough away form a house that its interior objects don't render. If this means new data fetching must be done every time I walk away and then again approach a house its a lot of potential data transfer.

I can understand why the change was put in place. I just wish they would try different solution instead of "nerf into compliance" attitude. Perhaps this was the easiest way to solve the problem. I bet redesigning optimization schemes are complicate. An example might be where when objects of like kind are dropped they make a pile. Further, you'd have say a pile of barrels which is a single item. The specifics for that pile aren't access until the player opens it up. I'm thinking you could have a pile of piles with this set up.

[Silures 91]

Saying Wurm does things badly is unfair, I didn't mean to imply that really. UE deals with mostly indoor maps smaller than a Wurm local, that's a lot different than everything Wurm deals with like dynamic large outdoor locals, rendering distant terrain 1000 tiles away and remaining playable. Something I would see happen differently though as I've said before is keeping the client usable above all else. The client needs to be dealing with that surprise troll and what I'm doing about it rather than locking up for 10 seconds because of it and telling me I'm dead, again. Running to water no doubt if I can get an active frame to turn and autorun before the red mist. That kind of reminded me of the old Jap RPGs like FF8 where the action zooms in to what's important and the world melts away till the troll is gone. Just give me a wireframe path to the shore in realtime and cull everything as the troll's still caving my head in on the server and I've just got a full health screenshot from a dead man walking.

Gonna have to buy that RAM yet Wurm is always playable apart from the above. :/ Hence the frustration.

Sorry for the offtopic.

Me> I love Wurm, listen to that high summer as I walk this familiar little ridge.

Wurm> I'm awesome aren't I. Look there's the bench that guy made and the cherry's getting old lol, look at my grass sway, Off white flowers for ya , tall walls still seem safe from here, raging trollface at your peripheral, wow nice butterfly, ever seen one that colour?? love the way the path swoops to the vista down h...

Me> Wait, what was that troll thing??

Wurm> brb

Wurm> Strongbox or Outside Strongbox?

Me :C

Me> Ok. Strongbox

Wurm> Don't forget the RAM lol

Me> Ok thx again. Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..

Edited March 22, 2013 by Silures

[Lycanthropic 523]

Hardcore item-limit work around, build 9 story house, place max amount containers on each tile of each floor, destroy house: BAM lots of containers on one tile

(for the true wurmians amongst us )

[RockyBalboa 565]

15 items per tile sound way better i was happy with 100 before too

[validate 598]

hmm. don't kill for this guys. but maybe they just need to make items solid. we they can't over lap eachother any more. like no more hiding BSB under a forge or a ton of barrels overlaping.

allow many items as long as no over lapping?

[Lycanthropic 523]

hmm. don't kill for this guys. but maybe they just need to make items solid. we they can't over lap eachother any more. like no more hiding BSB under a forge or a ton of barrels overlaping.

allow many items as long as no over lapping?

That would kill soooooo many creative things people can do with items, like the pictures posted in here. And I think it would cause wurm to bug out completely if Rolf made those items solid XD

[Ulviirala 431]

I do think the 100 barrels are a little extreme not everyone has a barrel collection like that but most do have decoration that well exceeds the 5 count for sure. Even if it was raised to 10-15 it would be fine. Not sure why we are given all this space with multistory houses if we are not going to be able to decorate it the way we like.

Yes, the tiles are so big, to properly decorate them in places that you want, 5 isn't enough :\

Think of all the tiny gift boxes around the christmas tree, nope.

Plus, you can't even push or pull items around when you hit the 5 limit. You can't pick up large chests for example, so everything is now immovable, congratulations! This limit is not good at all, I wish it was reverted completely. I'm not one to do something in excess, say 100 large barrels - now that feels just stupid.

Also, during the Q&A they said that they will add more decorational items for houses... so how's that going to work then? lol

Edited March 26, 2013 by Ulviirala

[Shidoni 84]

my store house is completely obsolete now. Since I use it to like...store things that otherwise won't stack or go in bins.