Three Months, Five Hundred Euro - A Fair And Unbiased Analysis Of The Game

[Archaegeo 136]

As a side note after some comments in game on this post....

I want to make it clear, I do NOT feel that 500e is needed to have a good experience in game. I went through that much cause I chose to move my token on large deeds 2x in the 3 mo and to purchase assistance and things.

I do feel however premium is definitely required, and either a good trusted village to work in or your own deed.

[Alyeska 2,621]

And technically, if part of a good village, you could just have the priest account

It is very possible and for some, even enjoyable, to play on a priest character. I myself have played as apriest for the past years and never felt restricted, simply becuase I can still do everything I enjoy and trade the goods I need in return for spells, and have a village with friends to help me out.

I think it's meant as an incentive to promote people playing together and a more lively trade system, but in reality it just means a lot of people create a secondary character becuase they want to be self-supplying

Edited March 7, 2013 by Alyeska

[Druidnature 1,118]

Good post, a lot like myself infact... Been here a month and have spent over 1000 euro >.<. And have massive time played per day.

I like most of what you suggested, exept for the eve-like leveling... That is the reason I left eve, I'd also leave the very day that got implemented here. I don't like being held back in leveling like that would do to me. I like earning the experience myself, not by a set timer. That's more like a bot then playing a game...

[alaskanbob 225]

Clickfest....Very much agree. Doing anything to help this out even a little bit would be a huuuuuge +1

From what I've seen of PvP so far I have to disagree with you. It is coming across very much more strategic.

[Rolf 3,563]

Yeah, I will give you that priest restrictions are purely a way to get people to have more than 1 premium account, but thats only because everyone in this game wants to do everything themselves <grin>

But hey, the company is entitled to make money, and you are not required to have a priest to have fun, so its all good, almost like an upsell thing.

And technically, if part of a good village, you could just have the priest account

Hehe so wrong. The ONLY reason is that otherwise you lose if you're not a priest and everyone should become one. Especially since praying gains are time limited.

Anyways, my group wouldn't use anything else than the hardcore rules. So glad if I can give something back.

I pretty much agree and as Epiphron says we are aware of a lot of what you say. Glad you believe in us.

[Archaegeo 136]

Thanks for chiming in Rolf ! And thanks for making a game with such HUGE potential.

And while it may not have been your intention to have priest generate extra income from extra premium accounts, it HAS to be a nice side effect <grin>

And wow, cant believe folks still using the HCR, so glad to hear it, warms my heart really

Edited March 7, 2013 by Archaegeo

[Ronnie 64]

Yeah, I'd picked up the general idea of how the security worked, but I was more intrigued by the resources. What were they collected for etc.

LIke wurm, resources are collected, but then what happens? I know the they're collected in far greater quantities than we do in Wurm, but then Wurm is one planet (though we do seem to keep finding new continents ), while Eve has enourmous tracts of space. Are the resources in Eve finite as in Wurm, or will new asteroids etc appear in belts over time?

Once the resources are collected in Eve, what happens? Some presumeably are made in to things, much like iron is made in to tools, gold in to altars etc in Wurm. But can they be sold to Eve's equivalent of traders if such a thing exists? Is there an infinite money pool to buy resources from players?

In my mind, the Eve set up would be something like this in Wurm:

Server 1: Kind of as now. Warring kingdoms, mixture of mobs, deeds, defenses, towers etc. same resources.

Server 2: Can't plant deeds, can build stuff* including towers, a couple of more valuable resources.

Server 3: Can only build towers, tough mobs, another couple of resource types.

Server 4: Can't build anything, lots of monstrous mobs, most valuable materials.

*By build, I mean structures. You can of course build items like carts etc.

Due to the time it takes to do stuff in Wurm (As I understand it you can leave stuff ticking away while you're offline in Eve) travel between these servers would need to be fast - by portal, you collect what you can and run, or you can take the slower option (by boat) to be able to transport greater amounts.

The trouble is making the valuable stuff valuable/useful, but not game winning, otherwise the strongest/richest become unbeatable. I'm guessing that due to the player numbers in Eve, this effect is felt rather less.

It's possibly the kind of set up that could work further down the line with a larger active PvP-centered player base.

aaanyway, I'm thoroughly derailing your thread at this point with my idle ramblings, so I hall desist

Well on eve online the only thing thats npc seeded/sold is skill books and blue prints to make everything. Ships, bays and ammo are all player made. So everything you can mine,strip,scan,hack,salvaged are used to build EVERYTHING within the game. You the player can even build space stations that you dock at. But inorder to do so you most hold sovereignty of that system.

So to the sense wurm is the grindy medieval version of eve online. (making a new thread for such idea to keep the thread from getting off topic)

Edited March 7, 2013 by Ronnie

[Archaegeo 136]

Nod Ronnie, which is why i feel its PvP system would work so very well in Wurm.

[Depends 220]

#1 Enhancement - Flush out existing systems.

If there is one thing that could be done that would most enhance the game (other than correcting Con #1), it would be to stop new development and flush out the existing systems in the game. Jewellry crafting could be more than a trader trash endeavor. Cooking used more than for raising soul depth. Ships could do so much more, mines could be enhanced, houses given more decorations. The game has a rock solid foundation in place that needs the existing systems improved, rather than new material.

This is the most important point for me. So many features that just seem like placeholders for future reworking.

If we are lucky 5 years down the road the feature may be picked back up and fleshed out. There is a lot of potential being missed with the current game that seems to be overlooked in favor of adding more half-baked features.

(I'd trade the last year of new features for some minor mining improvements.)

Edited March 7, 2013 by Depends

[Che 250]

I think make combat more skill dependent rather then sit back and let those numbers do all the work, parry & block in real time, hit in real time.

(skill can still be implemented to actually do something, same with quality of the item and enchants.

not saying that is skill not needed at the moment but I think combat should be a bit more less numbers more actual player skill.

more like this

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7LbtHBP-Ro

same with archery, you have to aim at them rather then clicking>shoot

would probably be too hard to implement without a long time of preparing but it would be optimal

the wind on the server will affect how arrows move once shot etc etc

Edited March 7, 2013 by Che

[Archaegeo 136]

Rolf said he was looking into twitch combat, but I for one do not see it being pulled off with the current engine and lag without a major code rewrite. That being said a lot could e done for combat just giving us more options during it.

But that aside, as stated above by depends, by gm eph, and by me originally, so many systems exist that cold enhance the game so inch for so many with just a little enhancement and making them more interrelated.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Archaegeo

[yarnevk 257]

2.5D really, not 2D. That means you have an X,Y grid of Z locations, but you can never have two things at the same X,Y but different Z. Evident by multistory that disallows the same things occuping the same tile column, and mineshafts that connect tunnels that intersect X,Y but not Z, and ores that are also columns.

But I think it is this very thing that makes terraforming so incredibly simple and fundamentally possible, yet still look realistic. It makes the game fundamentally no different than the 2D isometric view games of decades ago, the camera is just moved down into the game. This is why I like where Outerra is going in that the map has the exact same 2.5D nature on a coarse grid, but what you see is instead is fractally generated landscape that looks photorealistic down to cm details. So you edit the major grid and make major changes to the landscape moving boulders and with some work mountains, but you do not have to worry about placing the pebbles as you would in a truly 3D world, for that you sacrifice the ability to do land bridges over land.

Onto your other major point. Most carpal tunnel injuries come from use of the mouse, not from use of the keyboard, this is true even when ergonomic mice are used. This is why Windows windows can be worked using the keyboard, so they can avoid the lawsuits. So moving mouse clicks to the keyboard makes it more playable even though it is same number of tasks, it is actually easier because you do not repeat the cascading thru the menu. I think adding game automations that significantly decrease the number of keyclicks and increases timers is not desirable because it only further reduces player immersion, but absolutely cut down on mousing because it does not actually defeat macroers.

So adding an interactive feedback reward for the immersed attentive players is the way to go. Ironically if you do try to reward yourself by timing the timer spacing your queue out max stamina/skill gains - you are risk at getting flagged as a bot! You probably do just as many click actions in other games but you never realize it because you are immersed in having fun. With all these clicks it took to write this email I could have made a boat already, but because it is not repetitive actions I am not injured nor am I bored and it kept my mind engaged.

Edited March 7, 2013 by yarnevk

[Jarosz 189]

Hehe so wrong. The ONLY reason is that otherwise you lose if you're not a priest and everyone should become one. Especially since praying gains are time limited.

Anyways, my group wouldn't use anything else than the hardcore rules. So glad if I can give something back.

I pretty much agree and as Epiphron says we are aware of a lot of what you say. Glad you believe in us.

That would make sense... except that because Priest skill is time based, the oldest priests will win, so you might as well get a priest when you first start the game along with your main This was especially true when it came to Artifact hunting. Only those on day 1 that designated a character for a "champ" could cast the spells necessary.

[Ronnie 64]

just copying and pasting what i posted in another thread

Well, I would leave the skill system wurm has now as is since as I see it, its good as is. Yes Im sure there are skills others will say needs tweaking, but other then that its fine.

First off, really need to get known bugs fixed, and strengthen the server and client files.

Server 1: Kind of as now. Warring kingdoms, mixture of mobs, deeds, defenses, towers etc. same resources.

Server 2: Can't plant deeds, can build stuff* including towers, a couple of more valuable resources.

Server 3: Can only build towers, tough mobs, another couple of resource types.

Server 4: Can't build anything, lots of monstrous mobs, most valuable materials.

Well how that would work is, work on the servers files and game client to support a larger player base then it already can.

Second, Have a LARGE MAP, talking indi 8x8 and having 2x2 of the map size protected land, so those that want to live out of harms way can live there and care-bear as they say under the watch of templars..

And then a 1x4 outer ring around the center protected lands is a less protected with just towers and guards instead(towers have to be 100tiles apart and still only respond if your targets within 25tiles and player has bad standing) .(perimeter if you will, without the timer of "if you stick around the templar will come after you anyways" 2-3minutes thing)

And lastly is the own free to pvp are that's along the outer edge of the server.

Can reuse the alignment system(leave the old one in place for religions) And use it as a pvp/pve rating. Above 0.0 is PvE and -0.01 is pvp rating. To work as eve's sec standings. Players with a below lets say -50.0 rating will not be allowed into the center "protected" area, as the templars will attack them.(Im sure this system would take a lot of testing)(No deeds are to be used to setup the protected area, have an "event string" instead that acts like a deed but doesnt prevent players from paying forms to setup sub-parcels(deeds without perimeters) Along with stealing/looting off.

Each god has their own starting town within the protected area, Fo/Vyn/mag/lib

Each starting town will have 3 traders, And one large/mid size house with beds for rent and two forges and ovens.

Each starting town will have a working well/fountain

Each town will have an altar of the god they follow

NOW How will players build in the protected area? Two ways that I can think of.

#1:

Have houses onces the walls are up and finished that a "tax" chest spawns by one of the houses door and based on how many tiles the house the player will have to pay monthly. Let say its a 3x3 house, 9tiles total. So lets go with 5c per tile, so 5 x 9 is 45c a month for the house.(unpaid taxes will case the house to decay within 3days regardless the ql) Players can not build towers within this area.

Weak animals can be found roaming around, with the random troll or ten >:3

Templars will not attack animals

Low QL veins can be found here 1-40

Whats to stop players from placing a 1x1 house and fencing off a large area?!

Have an npc that sells whats called sub-parcels(just like a deed but without a perimeter) Thats set sizes, So lets say they range from 5x5 to 20x20(so there would be fair enough space for players to claim), That will have a token and uses the same tax system as we all know and love and the say options(KoS/invite players/your own templar/ect)

And fences can only be built on player owned deeds they have the right to build on. So you can own a house but not a free field/yard.

One sub-parcel per character, most be active(paid) to own one.

Free and paid can build a house as long as they keep up with the taxes.

#2

Just allow players to freely build as already but increase the rate that animals will bash walls of houses and fences.

And slightly increased decay(like 5%-10% per tick within the center area only) and allow players to place deeds under the same rules

The outer less protected area will work as wurm already does, but with pvp/stealing/full loot. But players are not allowed to build their own towers within this area, Whats placed by the devs is what players have to use.

Players can place their own deeds

Can build houses without the tax system but decay rates still increased 5%-10%

Stronger animals will be out roaming then whats found in the center of the map

Mid QL veins can be found here 1-70

The outer edge or Free mans land

Pretty much the same as the outer ring but without and Dev setup towers and are able to build their own.

Players can place their own deeds

Build houses as they please without taxes or increased decay rate.

Strongest animals can be found here along with a mix of weaker ones

Highest QL veins can be found here 1-99

Protected area

Outer ring

Free mans land

x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x

So pretty much just like that. One large server, with every play style.

If you want to live in the protected area and still able to care free have access to higher level veins you will have to buy the rode from a trader and place it.

Add more weapons along with balance them out

So at least each weapon class has a slow but high damage and a fast but low damage weapon. So 2 two handed swords, 2 one handed swords, ect....

So players can pick between either attacking fast but weak, or slow and hard.

Have different armor types protect against different attack types

Slash/chop/bash/stab

One armors better at one defense then the others.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Ronnie

[ReaverKane 363]

OK, on the Eve PvP...

I think Rolf is/was kinda aiming for that on Epic (look at the ore cap on the home servers).

But needs more, and better.

I'd probably get extended "cities". Which would be 100% safe zones on home servers.

Each city would have like a GM/CA/Volunteer-made castle at its core, with trader, guards, towers, walls, and maybe even a market.

Then around that city there would be a big-ish area of influence (kinda like a suburbia) mostly for new players to settle. Maybe even deedable (but would ahve to be carefully considered, this).

Then add no-raid on kingdom influence (towers and guards would need to be a bit tougher on home servers).

Full pvp outside capitols and deeds.

Elevation Full pvp, and all the good stuff.

(also i'd cap wood ql as well)

Edited March 8, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Archaegeo 136]

Nod, would be pretty easily doable, not sure it will be done.

[thenewcndo 528]

Solution: Restructure PvP more like Eve with safe low resource areas and high risk valuable resource areas. I hate to say it, but from a PvP standpoint, Eve has hit the nail on the head. Ten years going and their subscription base is still growing. WoW can't even say that.

Eve pvp is literally the same exact thing as wurm, text based nothingness. The only difference being the lack of excitement of eve knowing that all you lost can be re bought in a matter of seconds.

And the rest of your suggestions are terrible, try playing on epic or a pvp server before you make suggestions for it.

Edited March 8, 2013 by thenewcndo

[Klaa 4,872]

Pvp loss or rather re-equipping afterwards in Wurm and Eve are very similar when boiled down. Granted Eve being scifi means goods traverse the server cluster faster, not to mention tens of thousands of players active at any given time: miners, crafters, merchants, etc. Theres a massive supply of material.

Still dealing with loss can be divided into two player styles. Solo players have merely their own resources to depend on; as a result, imho even if your playstyle is more independent, you should hook up and contribute with a group.

Logistics is of even higher importance than strategy.

[thenewcndo 528]

Pvp loss or rather re-equipping afterwards in Wurm and Eve are very similar when boiled down. Granted Eve being scifi means goods traverse the server cluster faster, not to mention tens of thousands of players active at any given time: miners, crafters, merchants, etc. Theres a massive supply of material.

Still dealing with loss can be divided into two player styles. Solo players have merely their own resources to depend on; as a result, imho even if your playstyle is more independent, you should hook up and contribute with a group.

Logistics is of even higher importance than strategy.

nah

[Kagrenac 812]

Those problems you see with pvp aren't really much of an issue with it. There consequences for losing in pvp can be pretty large. Losing your horse, and all your horse gear can cripple you for a good amount of time, and losing all of your gear can do the same. It can take a long time to get a full set of good gear, with good casts on it, and you can lose all of that by dying once in pvp, and either have to remake and reenchant, or find someone selling that gear and pay a ridiculous amount for it.

In eve, you just need to spend money.

Not sure why we would need the whole zone idea, pvp servers are already pretty safe.

Making certain areas of the map safer already exists in the form of guard towers and other players, running into an area covered in guard towers, or near other enemy players deeds, and trying to kill someone generally wont go well.

[Che 250]

Eve pvp is literally the same exact thing as wurm, text based nothingness. The only difference being the lack of excitement of eve knowing that all you lost can be re bought in a matter of seconds.

And the rest of your suggestions are terrible, try playing on epic or a pvp server before you make suggestions for it.

I think you are bad at twitch-combat and therefore you immiedietly dislike it due to if it gets implemented you'll sit there getting abused by weapons

but ok

Edited March 8, 2013 by Che

[Torgrim 403]

Solution: Not mine to suggest, but if Code AB wants to have the growth of other games and see income rise, they need to become more organized and professional.

Why does so many people see this as some kind of goal every game maker has to have?! Making money.. *sigh* It is what destroys most games! What a game needs to really be good is passionate people, working to make the game better, not because they want to get rich.

I think Rolf and the team is doing it the right way as it is, grow slowly, don't try to maximize short term profit. I love it, and it will keep this game going for a very long time. It has been around for 10 years already and some players have been around for many years. How many other games can compete with that? Maybe a handful. Keep up the good work!

[Che 250]

Why does so many people see this as some kind of goal every game maker has to have?! Making money.. *sigh* It is what destroys most games! What a game needs to really be good is passionate people, working to make the game better, not because they want to get rich.

I think Rolf and the team is doing it the right way as it is, grow slowly, don't try to maximize short term profit. I love it, and it will keep this game going for a very long time. It has been around for 10 years already and some players have been around for many years. How many other games can compete with that? Maybe a handful. Keep up the good work!

so true, too much money makes games completly ######, just look at WoW, was good in the start, turned into some kind of frankenstein-pokemon game that requires you to pay for almost everything, completly lost what made it successful in the first place.

then when companies turn games down becuase they do not generate enough money for them to swim in, they put it down, like star wars galaxies.

I don't think Rolf will go berzerka though

Edited March 8, 2013 by Che

[Archaegeo 136]

Torgrim,

They chose to make it commercial.

And why do so many people think that it is wrong for someone to make money so they can do what they love.

I fully support the company making money, as I have shown with my own. I want them to make more of it so they can hire more passionate people to make our game even better.

Like it or not, you need to work in some manner in life to eat and have a roof and maybe buy products you enjoy. The Devs here that are paid so far are lucky I that they get to do so by working on a project that brings them joy.

There is nothing wrong wanting to make money from the fruits of your labor.

[Che 250]

Torgrim,

They chose to make it commercial.

And why do so many people think that it is wrong for someone to make money so they can do what they love.

I fully support the company making money, as I have shown with my own. I want them to make more of it so they can hire more passionate people to make our game even better.

Like it or not, you need to work in some manner in life to eat and have a roof and maybe buy products you enjoy. The Devs here that are paid so far are lucky I that they get to do so by working on a project that brings them joy.

There is nothing wrong wanting to make money from the fruits of your labor.

It is good that Rolf gets money to make the game more of liking according to both the people playing it and his ideas

It is bad if he for example does exactly like lucasarts or whatever company shut down star wars galaxies, where they don't give a about the game or about the people playing it, where they would do anything to earn more money.