Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Hi,I happened to make a newbie account recently for general messing around. Obviously starting a newbie account you are given a shortsword and wooden medium shield. I decided to take up some combat skilling anyway and remembered how awful skilling shields is at the inital starting phase.The shield you are given is 10QL, when going into combat with anything, whether you're in defensive or not - blocking anything with your puny 10ql wooden shield is a rarity. The only way you can really get some skill is to constantly shieldbash weak animals, which give much less skill than blocking a hit, due to the shieldbashing nerf you're unable to shieldbash constantly for skill. When you do manage to land a shieldbash you'll likely get a 0.06 increase at 1.00 shield skill.I got hold of a 30ql shield and found this was just as bad, there's literally no point in handing a newbie a shield as they can't effectively use it.My suggestion is: Allow practice dolls to fight back and allow you to block hits with your shield up to a maximum of 20 shieldskill of any shield type & give a small bonus to shields when under 20 skill like mining timers (this bonus is NOT effective in PVP)Back when i first trained shield skill on my main account, i worked out shield skill didn't help too much until you got into the 20's, so this would be fantastic for starting with. This will encourage the use of shields rather than relying on dual weilding when starting out.Shields prolong life for newbies (should they be able to use their shield), thus less deaths of newbies, which might prevent fustraited early quitters = More players! Edited February 10, 2013 by MetalDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 10, 2013 -1 because it makes the game too easy for newcomers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 10, 2013 -1 because it makes the game too easy for newcomersYou have to be kidding me, the game at its current state is extremely punishing for new players, give them a break.It indeed makes no sense to give a 10ql shield to a newbie with his stats. So im going to fully agree with this suggestion.Though one issue, is that it a practice doll needs a pumpkin to make. Im going to assume that the moment a newbie can get his hands on pumpkins that he settled down and has farm animals to train on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 10, 2013 -1 because it makes the game too easy for newcomers... oh so lets make it harder for them starting out great way to make new people to stick around (sarcasm), sure we dont want it to be too easy but give them a fighting chance to run to block and run away 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 10, 2013 Although it sounds weird to have practice dolls attack you, i understand what you want. Good idea +1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 10, 2013 Doesn't need to be a practice doll, can be a seperate peice of equipment, i just couldn't think of anything genious for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 11, 2013 If those opposing could offer some alternative? Do you not think it's bad that when you're a newbie you're given a shield where you're likelyhood of blocking an attack with it is 1/200? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 11, 2013 Massive +1As a newbie without a clue how to get my shield skill up, something like this would be perfect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 If those opposing could offer some alternative? Do you not think it's bad that when you're a newbie you're given a shield where you're likelyhood of blocking an attack with it is 1/200?No.That's an incentive to make a better shield. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 +1on the shield skill gained from practice dolls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 No.That's an incentive to make a better shield.No it's not, its an incentive to switch to a second sword or a two handed weapon. Seeing an item perform horrible is not a reason to get a better version of that item, its a reason to ditch that item and switch to something else. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 Aye, as a newbie if i saw the shield pretty much doing nothing then i'd imagine the whole shield system is crap, infact back then i did - i dual weilded longswords for a good year before i started my shield grind - never understood how good shields are. The 'practice doll' system doesn't make it overpowered as it hard caps at 20, same with ALL weapons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 shieldbash practice dolls for shieldskill only? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 No it's not, its an incentive to switch to a second sword or a two handed weapon. Seeing an item perform horrible is not a reason to get a better version of that item, its a reason to ditch that item and switch to something else.... and then you realize that a sword in the offhand does absolutely nothing... and then you don't put anything into your offhand... and then you make a conscious choice between dual-wielding and shield-using. Your move? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 +1 Getting shield skill in the beginning is downright horrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 +1or remove the shield at beginning, why give something useless? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 ... and then you realize that a sword in the offhand does absolutely nothing... and then you don't put anything into your offhand... and then you make a conscious choice between dual-wielding and shield-using.Your move?Well you still didn't give a real reason to why not. You just said it makes the game 'too easy', no it won't lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) ... and then you realize that a sword in the offhand does absolutely nothing... and then you don't put anything into your offhand... and then you make a conscious choice between dual-wielding and shield-using.Your move?The only rason to get shield skill up is as a way to protect yourself against archers in PVP servers, on PVE, the combination of a useless tool (ql 10 shield) and a horrid and painfully slow skill gain, plus the lacking of bow´s welding mobs make you realize the clear facts, you will be more eficient, more happy and will die a lot less switching to any 2H weapon, even polearms are a better choice than going around with 1h + shield.Your move? Edited February 12, 2013 by KunAlt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 12, 2013 Hey the dummy has a sword and shield , why not make it enchantable to fight back, like a low low low level enemy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 13, 2013 Good idea, have the doll swing about once you hit it and 'hit' you back for a chance to block. +1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 13, 2013 ... and then you realize that a sword in the offhand does absolutely nothing... and then you don't put anything into your offhand... and then you make a conscious choice between dual-wielding and shield-using.Your move?Im afraid it wont go like that. That second offhand sword? sure it wont hit often. But instead of doing nothing it will actually do another hit. And thats a visible effect a new players actually notices. An a second hit once in a while, sure its not often. But it's clearly there.And then the cycle of players wanting a better version of the item really starts. Because there is a visible effect which actually does something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 14, 2013 The only rason to get shield skill up is as a way to protect yourself against archers in PVP servers, on PVE, the combination of a useless tool (ql 10 shield) and a horrid and painfully slow skill gain, plus the lacking of bow´s welding mobs make you realize the clear facts, you will be more eficient, more happy and will die a lot less switching to any 2H weapon, even polearms are a better choice than going around with 1h + shield.Your move?Ah, that's right. I forgot 2 handed weapons existed, even though my weapon of choice was a 2H axe. I should rephrase what I said. Players would make a conscious choice between 2 1h weapons, 1h weapon and a shield, and another weapon altogether. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 14, 2013 Im afraid it wont go like that. That second offhand sword? sure it wont hit often. But instead of doing nothing it will actually do another hit. And thats a visible effect a new players actually notices. An a second hit once in a while, sure its not often. But it's clearly there.And then the cycle of players wanting a better version of the item really starts. Because there is a visible effect which actually does something.That's where the "conscious choice" comes in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 14, 2013 As a side note, i want to show you my numbers, as a solid evidence of my words.Fighting: 59.13504 59.13504 0 Shield bashing: 2.544142 2.544142 0 Taunting: 1.0 1.0 0 Normal fighting: 14.686424 14.686424 0 Defensive fighting: 3.490683 3.490683 0 Aggressive fighting: 35.094215 35.094215 0 Weaponless fighting: 1.6679984 1.6679984 0 Shields: 4.8391566 5.0891566 0 Medium wooden shield: 1.0 1.0 0 Medium metal shield: 6.428988 6.428988 0 Axes: 22.914696 22.914696 0 Huge axe: 20.269032 20.269032 0 Large axe: 8.293442 8.293442 0 Hatchet: 23.05363 23.05363 0 Swords: 7.4564524 7.7064524 0 Two handed sword: 9.186796 9.186796 0 Shortsword: 2.3059804 2.3059804 0 Longsword: 6.295438 6.295438 0 Mauls: 15.820748 15.820748 0 Small maul: 1.1403673 1.1403673 0 Medium maul: 39.657425 39.657425 0Note: started as anyone in game misguided thinking the provided SS+MWS Defensive instance was the way to go, then after a short time changed to Normal instance, shorter after, switched the short sword for a long sword and the shiel for a meium metal, then to a medium maul + medium metal shield, this last configuration was used for a long period from sub 10 FS to allmost 59 FS but the instance changed to Agressive, then I´ve switched to the current config of a 2H (huge axe)Most of the Huge axe skill was gained by chopping trees.Compare the ridicolous shield skill gain (and not mentioning the meassly 2.x Shield bashing) agains the more solid 39 medioum maul skill.So speaking for the good of all pve people, stop giving to fresh freedom people a useless shield and shortsword, and switch it to a same ql 2H (Sword axe or maul, your choice)Related to the recent changes to decay to kkep the db load more healty, one of the greates source of useless items cluttering the db must be the hundreds of short swords and wooden shields discarded for the new chars once they realized how much useless they are.Of course if you are a PvPer your milleage may vary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites