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Keldun

Wurm Online Is Different!

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I just realised something that might explain why so many new players struggle so much starting out in Wurm Online:

The very nature of this game is completely different than most other games and new players generally don't realize that.

Most players are used to games like World of Warcraft, Ever Quest, Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings online, Dark age of Camelot and all those Korean Instant MMOs.

All of these are so called theme parks, where you have a clear path, follow instructions and progress steadily. The relative strength between you and your environment is pretty much always the same throughout the entire game.

What's more, all of these so called MMOs are at the core really single player games with co-op modus and raid option. Playing WoW or EQ felt basically the same as playing Elder Scrolls or Drakensang. If you try to play Wurm like you played WoW and EQ, you are going to fail and fail hard.

Even Minecraft, where you immediately get the full impact of the "everything goes" sandbox setup, is still a single player game. First you protect yourself, then you steadily improve your situation.

Wurm however was made as a true multiplayer game, The only such RPG I'm aware of actually. You are supposed to team up and with others or at least get support from someone.

You constantly see new players that try to go off into the wilderness, build a place and go at it alone. That is ok in itself, but they have to realize that they choose to play Wurm in the most difficult way possible and they have to accept that and accept that they need to deal with it, not cry "I just wanna build a little shack here, but the game kills me every five minutes, you need to nerf these mobs around here, I'm just a newb!"

If they can't accept that, they should go. I doubt we will ever be able to appeal to those kinds of player without changing the very nature of Wurm itself, but we can educate those that are unaware of the difference.

There needs to be clear information and explanation about this nature of Wurm on the website and the tutorial and starter towns need to be adjusted to reflect this.

Here are two statements that should appear so or similar in all the obvious places: Wiki, game launcher, loading tips and best right on the front page:

"Wurm is a life Simulator, there are no stages, areas or levels you pass through. Everything goes and everything can happen at every time, right from the get go. So watch your steps! Don't assume you can take your short sword and fight that dragon over there just because it happens to be strolling through the starting area!"

"Wurm is a true multiplayer game. You will have a very hard time when you try to go at it alone. You can't do everything yourself, at least not at the beginning. So team up with others or join one of the established villages!"

Also Wurm is not only a community game in play, but in development as well. So this also means that the community here has pretty big responsibility. We need to take care of the starter towns and pick up the new players. I know for a fact that most of the town have been developed to some degree by regular players in the past. Any player with some prestige can approach the GMs to do this or even host a community event.

Sorry for the wall-o-text, but what do you guys think, do I hit the spot with this?

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TLDNR, lol im just kidding, but that it true people do try to survive on their own right from the begining but they still have Social tools and such to help them out when needed, some people just want the whole "Hardcore" experience, i met a few people that do that.

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While I do think is a fair identification of a problem, I think there is more to it than this. Even with the notices posted, with all of the current discussions on forums across the WWW, and the wiki, people at the base level think it doesn't apply to them. As well as, lets be honest, as gamers, we'd see those "warnings" as a challenge.

Newer gamers "cut their teeth" on those "instant gratification" games, even the older members of the WoW community are up in arms about the "dumbing down" of the gameplay, and that is saying something.

Games like Wurm will (hopefully) always be a niche playerbase game, even with as much as we whine and scream we want more players, as a group we don't want them unless they meet a certain criteria set. This differs for each of us, but almost every reply to a "noob" post highlights this idea and what each of us is looking for.

Edited by Hussars
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When i started playing all i wanted was to get out of the tutorial and start doing my own thing and learn the hard way. I was frustrated with the tutorial and felt it didnt explain enough to even be worth the time. The only way i really learned was by finding a friend and letting him explain the dynamics of the game. What i really want to see is the Noob spawn to have NPC's that can explain certain parts of the game in more depth. The noob spawn should also reflect the different aspects of the game. for example, the carpenter would be surrounded by a wood building along with items that can be crafted with that skill. A simple visual and an NPC that can explain in step by step directions would greatly help the player base get hold of the concepts and functionality. Ive seen new players be ignored because they ask so many questions and nobody wants to hold yet another new players hand or we yell at them to go read the wiki. We are not trying to be jerks it just sucks up all of our time that we could be doing something else.

An interactive Wiki in game would greatly help new and old players alike.

Keldun, what your saying is right. A lot of people want a faster paced game but are interested in what Wurm has to offer. Educating new players right in the beginning will reassure them that the effort is worth the time.

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Hmm so you have discovered there is a difference between theme box and sandbox games.

A lot of people are not prepared for sandbox games they expect a frame work and lines to follow, there for they will fail in a sandbox games unless they figure out how to make up there own agenda. On top of that wurm is also a skill based game, different from the normal (crap) class based MMO's that people are used to, so it does require a slightly different attitude to levelling.

On top of that wurm does not have good graphics and is extremy tedious, click click click which will scare away the vast majority of people.

I do like that you call all other MMO's for single player games, did you try to join some of the groups around, being social in any game is up to the individual player.

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Blaming the relative impopularity of Wurm Online on the fact that it is a sandbox game is nothing more than a scapegoat.

Yes, the market for sandbox games is smaller than for 'themepark' games, but the problems with Wurm Online run deeper than that.

One of the main problems with Wurm Online right now is that it's basically Progress Quest with graphics. The large majority of the game is spent watching progress bars fill up so an arbitrary statistic might (or might not) rise by a miniscule amount. This puts off so many people that even though the feature list of the game is really impressive, people want nothing of it because it's presented in such a dull and grindy way.

I remember Rolf presented his vision for the game many, many years ago, and that was to do away with the progress bars. The progress bars were there merely as a beta/work in progress kind of patchwork system in order to make the game playable, while he worked on better ways to handle the action.

Sadly, progress bars became so ingrained with Wurm Online that I'm afraid "Rolf's Vision" of improving the core gameplay was dumped in a trashbin in favor of adding more features and gimmicks.

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I don't think anything would have put me more off the game if there had been a big warning saying that I had to be social.

I like being a hermit, I like doing everything myself and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

However, I had the luxury of starting out on GV where you could run away from the mobs and they didn't insta-kill you. I still think it was a shame that newbs don't get the option to learn the ropes without having a spider nibbling on their toes as soon as they leave spawn point.

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Wurm is different, and it does well for this same reason, because it doesn't force any specific play style. I read the OP as someone who doesn't like it when other players object to a system he thinks works well.

Educating players is not telling people they need to play the game in some fashion. The only education we really need is helping newbs to understand who our wiki works.

Also, if enough customers what a peaceful environment to craft and build in, why not give it to them? True success is giving those who like being surprised by trolls a place to do so, while also providing a place for those who don't. You don't grow your business griefing customers, and then tell them that their desires don't fit an ideal of "the very nature of Wurm".

Part of this "the very nature of Wurm" idea was raiding home servers. How well did that go over? How well did the game rebound when Rolf essentially apologized, said it was a mistake, and committed to idea that Wurm should have a non-pvp aspect? It went over very well and was a huge success. Similary I project giving customers a peaceful place to craft and build will help the game grow even more.

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Hi,

[...]

Perfectly correct, IMHO. Wrote a long text, deleted it. Would only cause flames.

It should be clear to anybody that the "new player experience" isn't as it might be, by far not enough education about Wurms social aspects, about the Do's and Dont's, about what is different here.

New players are thrown into the fray, have a short phase of excitement and enthusiasm, and leave after a few days, frustrated - too often. How often do we see a new deed planted nearby, ppl working on it like mad, only to vanish for good even before the initial week is over?

This is an area where I see need for improvement. And if it's buffer servers/ newbie servers with special rules & less dangerous mobs, where volunteer Prems would help and teach. Kind of a "grace period".

I never was faint by heart, but would I have had to start where I live now on Indy, I'd not be here anymore.

This would be the hell on wheels for any noob. Established neighbors that are helpful but don't love to be disturbed over and over, insanely dangerous monsters all over the place, and all really good spots taken already - no fun.

Have fun!

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Hmm so you have discovered there is a difference between theme box and sandbox games...

Blaming the relative impopularity of Wurm Online on the fact that it is a sandbox game is nothing more than a scapegoat...

Yes, being a sandbox is just part of the difference, but not a problem itself, people just need to adjust. Minecraft for example has over 9 million players.

I do like that you call all other MMO's for single player games, did you try to join some of the groups around, being social in any game is up to the individual player.

I was founding member and co-leader of a successfull guild in both WoW and EQ2 thank you. Doesn't change the fact that most of the time, you have 2-5 people, walking together but each playing his very own game through.

I don't think anything would have put me more off the game if there had been a big warning saying that I had to be social.

I'm not saying that anyone needs to be social, but Wurm is set up in a way that greatly rewards being social. In reverse that just means that being a hermit is more of a challenge. It's a fact that needs to be accepted.

Wurm is different, and it does well for this same reason, because it doesn't force any specific play style. I read the OP as someone who doesn't like it when other players object to a system he thinks works well.

I'm not talking about any specific play stiles, I'm talking about the basic nature of the game. I played WoW and EQ2 and I played Minecraft. I love those games and each is great in their own way. But each is different. You need to accept the difference and act accordingly. You can't join a football team and complain that you are not allowed to use a bat.

Part of this "the very nature of Wurm" idea was raiding home servers...

Yes, I guess that was an idea that would equate adding bats to football.

However, I had the luxury of starting out on GV where you could run away from the mobs and they didn't insta-kill you. I still think it was a shame that newbs don't get the option to learn the ropes without having a spider nibbling on their toes as soon as they leave spawn point.

Hmm, fair enough. The start areas could use some improvements.

Also, if enough customers what a peaceful environment to craft and build in, why not give it to them? True success is giving those who like being surprised by trolls a place to do so, while also providing a place for those who don't. You don't grow your business griefing customers, and then tell them that their desires don't fit an ideal of "the very nature of Wurm"...

Sure and we have exactly that, we have villages and we have wilderness. When you decide to walk off into the wilderness you shouldn't complain about being surprised by a Troll.

Similary I project giving customers a peaceful place to craft and build will help the game grow even more.

We already have that place it's the deed. Sure it costs money, but that is one of the benefits you have to sacrifice when you don't pay for the game.

So we have several options already:

You can be a hermit, grin and bear it.

You can admit to paying for what the game is worth.

You can be social and team up with others.

Or you can cry and shout and try to force the game to change for you. This generally doesn't fare very well. The "everything for me, everything for free" mindset just doesn't work in this world.

I guess this acceptance is what I'm really talking about. You have to realize the difference, accept it and adjust yourself to it.

Edited by Keldun

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On top of that wurm does not have good graphics and is extremy tedious, click click click which will scare away the vast majority of people.

One of the main problems with Wurm Online right now is that it's basically Progress Quest with graphics....

Agreed the general rough appearance of Wurm and the still completely unfinished state of the game engine is a seriously huge problem. But a completely different one from the one I wanted to discuss here.

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It should be clear to anybody that the "new player experience" isn't as it might be, by far not enough education about Wurms social aspects, about the Do's and Dont's, about what is different here.

And if it's buffer servers/ newbie servers with special rules & less dangerous mobs, where volunteer Prems would help and teach. Kind of a "grace period".

We already tried that with Golden Valley before the tutorial was set up, didn't work out. People couldn't advance further, but didn't want to leave all their work behind either.

I think softening up the start area and giving better help in preparing to leave the start area would be a better course of action.

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I haven't read all the replies, but I disagree on the multiplayer part. The appeal of Wurm for me is that I CAN do everything myself, and I do. Sure many people like the village life, but its not a requirement and I think if you put that kind of message in you would be misleading people.

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I haven't read all the replies, but I disagree on the multiplayer part. The appeal of Wurm for me is that I CAN do everything myself, and I do. Sure many people like the village life, but its not a requirement and I think if you put that kind of message in you would be misleading people.

The op didn´t say that you can´t, but in do so, you take the harder path, and that is true.

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Being a relatively new player to Wurm but not to a laundry list of MMOs and other Sandbox games (closest one to Wurm being, A Tale In The Desert) I think the hardest part for me when I showed up in the world was just where to go to do things. The spawn areas are thick with deeds and being aware of the social aspects of the game it was hard for me to know where a good spot to start doing things without stepping on anyone's toes. Luckily I wandered on the forums and found a village willing to take me in.

I think something that was implemented into ATITD might help with the new player issue is a function on the settlement token that a deed owner could set that would allow the new players to spawn directly at the settlement. ATITD did this with a banner that you could use to advertise for new players with a few lines of text, and when the new player wanted to spawn into the game, they were given a list of open banners they could spawn to besides the default ones. That way deed owners could turn it on when they are actually around and new players could get a jump start on the social/village aspect right away, which might help increase retention.

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Being a relatively new player to Wurm but not to a laundry list of MMOs and other Sandbox games (closest one to Wurm being, A Tale In The Desert) I think the hardest part for me when I showed up in the world was just where to go to do things. The spawn areas are thick with deeds and being aware of the social aspects of the game it was hard for me to know where a good spot to start doing things without stepping on anyone's toes. Luckily I wandered on the forums and found a village willing to take me in.

I think something that was implemented into ATITD might help with the new player issue is a function on the settlement token that a deed owner could set that would allow the new players to spawn directly at the settlement. ATITD did this with a banner that you could use to advertise for new players with a few lines of text, and when the new player wanted to spawn into the game, they were given a list of open banners they could spawn to besides the default ones. That way deed owners could turn it on when they are actually around and new players could get a jump start on the social/village aspect right away, which might help increase retention.

One of the best features of ATITD, for people recruiting for new villagers. If I remember right you could only use this for 24 hrs of game play. Not sure of potential abuse mechanics for this I'm sure somebody will come up with some, but it would definitely help.

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One of the best features of ATITD, for people recruiting for new villagers. If I remember right you could only use this for 24 hrs of game play. Not sure of potential abuse mechanics for this I'm sure somebody will come up with some, but it would definitely help.

24 hours/ 20 total times was the limit and there were also strict limits on the types of resources you could teleport with to keep from them becoming hauling mules. I think in this instance even if it was a one shot deal when they got out of the tutorial, it would greatly improve the experience.

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Wurm does and endorses the solo player aspect very well, as well as offering the social and community aspects of gameplay. They are both options which are available to choose from. What makes Wurm hard for new players to go it alone off into the wilderness is that there are no *zones* with varing quality of aggro mob AI restricted to them in the way that most other MMO's are structured. This structuring of zones makes sense in those games since it enables the new player to start with fighting aggros with stats closer to their own, enabling them to advance their fighting skills faster since they can defeat these aggros and then move onto higher level ones to repeat the process and advance their own skills once again in the next higher zone.

Wurm is nothing like this since aggros roam the lands without restriction as to the power of their AI, thus the new player can meet ones that can easily overpower them at any time which they have absolutely no chance of defeating. Even more advanced players who have spent little time developing their fighting skills can easily be killed by these powerful aggro mobs. Because of these free ranging unrestricted powerful aggro mobs, the game becomes one of evasion for those not trained up and *armored*, since even on my main Ayes when working in the local areas I go about unarmored as any armor slows my movement down too much when dragging carts and moving quickly from place to place around the areas.

Once a person is familiar with their local area, knowing the guard towers locations and open deeds with spirit templars set to attack aggros (and not used purely for the purpose of KOS on other players as some do that I know of), then they can move about the area using this evasion approach to their advantage to control this constant nusiance of overpowered aggro mob AI, which makes any steps off of their deed or joined village into a survival situation. A new player will not have this all down pat as to their locations (guard towers and helpful spirit templars), nor have the awareness as to how to use these guards to their best advantage to eliminate these nusiance aggro mobs that they want no part of at the present timeline of their Wurm experience.

Since the god of Wurm wants this free ranging unrestricted mix of powerful aggro mobs roaming all across every server, I see no solution to the problem other than the ones already afforded. The pure newbie players will suffer the most from this approach and the more experienced players will eventually learn to deal with these aggro mobs as a nusiance to be avoided or eliminated by the crafty use of tower guards and spirit templars set to kill them on open deeds. So, if this aggro mob AI is seen by others as a mechanism to enforce the need for "community", I think that it is a poor substitute for encouraging others to participate in more social and community type interactions. I have touched upon ways to encourage that in other posts so I will not bother to repeat myself again here.

As Joedobo hinted within his post, what would help newbies stick around longer in relation to this overpowered (to them certainly) aggro mob AI would be to have a server without any aggro mobs upon it as an option to choose from, which of course established players should be able to choose to play upon as well. As his in his example, way back when players were given the choice to leave the pvp assaulted lands, the majority left never to give considertation to Wurm pvp again and even to this day the **vast** majority of the playerbase have no interest in the pvp lands available to them to choose from. I am not thinking a non aggro mob server would have this much of a dramatic shift in the playerbase but that it would be a viable option to make available to any players who chose to live and play upon it.

Then if over time the majority of the playerbase chose to play upon this non aggro server (and others established as needed), it would be just as telling an indication of the playerbase desires for the game as was the enablement of the non-pvp servers has been in the past. Yes, a server without aggro mobs upon it would eliminate the need to cry for help to other players when attacked but basing the community and social aspects of an online game on this principle is a poor substitute for more effective methods to promote it on a more positive basis than dependency.

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes

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a function on the settlement token that a deed owner could set that would allow the new players to spawn directly at the settlement.

This is already possible for any deeder to do, not for any new player, but all any new player has to do is ask to be given spawn rights only in permissions. Works very well, have an alliance on Indy always has new players that have yet to deed that are spawn only villagers.

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This is already possible for any deeder to do, not for any new player, but all any new player has to do is ask to be given spawn rights only in permissions. Works very well, have an alliance on Indy always has new players that have yet to deed that are spawn only villagers.

I mean straight from the tutorial, when they go in to pick a server, they would get options to go directly to the villages that are taking new players.

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I mean straight from the tutorial, when they go in to pick a server, they would get options to go directly to the villages that are taking new players.

Player controlled bulletin boards, they already exist in the tutorial as GM controlled bulletin boards. The GMS certainly have the mechanics that 'could' be used to add a new player village poster at the end. Most new player villages that are not near spawn post an alt to invite at spawn, then new villager can suicide and respawn at the village. Making it an actual select a village mechanic in the tutorial makes it seem like that you have to join a village as part of choosing a server, but its a sandbox and you are just as free to drop your toolbox and go play hermit when you leave the tutorial. Blindly picking a village of the list would just end up with too many people in the wrong place for them, as well as putting the GMs into the position of qualifying and updating the list for each server.

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That is a rellay great idea, the tutorial already extensively uses the mission system and bulletin boards to advice players and teleport them all over the map, it would be really usefully if we could add something like that to the starter deeds usable withing the first 24 hours of game, like the other newby help tools.

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Player controlled bulletin boards, they already exist in the tutorial as GM controlled bulletin boards. The GMS certainly have the mechanics that 'could' be used to add a new player village poster at the end. Most new player villages that are not near spawn post an alt to invite at spawn, then new villager can suicide and respawn at the village. Making it an actual select a village mechanic in the tutorial makes it seem like that you have to join a village as part of choosing a server, but its a sandbox and you are just as free to drop your toolbox and go play hermit when you leave the tutorial. Blindly picking a village of the list would just end up with too many people in the wrong place for them, as well as putting the GMs into the position of qualifying and updating the list for each server.

None of those problems existed in ATITD which has roughly the same playerbase, but like any idea there are downsides and upsides

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Wurm Online's difficulty isn't really a problem. The game is complex, but once newbies figure out the basics, the rest is mostly just alt-tab-wiki stuff.

The real problem is the core gameplay. Which isn't really gameplay, but more of a case of watching timers. Most people quit because of the boredom and the realization that the game is essentially a really, really, reeaally grindy version of Minecraft.

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