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Mizana

Sawmills And Gypsy Wagons

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I know many people have suggested these things already, probably, but I was not able to find topics for them(or for the sawmill idea atleast).

First I'll cover sawmills. Some of you might be thinking 'Oh yeah, then I won't have to work so hard!' and some of you are thinking 'NO! It'll make things too easy/could easily be abused!'. First of all, I'm gonna slap a big fat nope on both of those.

It might indeed make things more easy, but first you'd have to go through the pain and work of making one.

It would not be a big object, maybe 2x1 tiles depending on design, also depending on whether it's human powered, animal powered, wind powered, or water powered. The components to make it would be tough for a noob to manage, like sawblades, gears, and whatever is needed depending on power source. A waterwheel would likely take something like a few gears, 80 or so planks, and 20 or so large nails. A windmill would likely need sheets and lots of shafts and a few gears, perhap metal ribbons. Anyway, you get the idea, lots of materials to make this.

Also, the quality of the mill itself would factor in how fast is works and what quality planks it produces. A low QL mill would logicly produce cruddy planks :lol:

As for the gypsy wagons, I of course mean wagons you could pretty much live in. Ideally a wagon should include a bed, an oven, and storage. Fancier wagons could possibly have more, but I'm just keeping this to a simple default wagon(what you get for completing an unfinished wagon).

Logicly I'd think a wagon like this might take as much materials if not more that a Large Cart takes to make, and the materials a bed, oven, and BSB takes as well. As such, a gypsy type wagon may be quite heavier than a large cart, and could possibly only be dragged by animals with the 'Strong Body' trait. Also, where a large cart may travel 12km/h, a caravan wagon like this would travel 10km/h. This is just an example though, and entirely depends on what speed usually depends on.

It would certianly usher a new age of nomads in Wurm, and likely promt the disbanding of many deeds. Also, many may make their business in opening the wagon equivalent of trailer parks :lol: Which I'm not sure is a good or a bad thing, but definitely interesting.

Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matters, you're welcome to discuss what you think of these and what you think should be changed or some such like that~

And not that I need to remind all you good people, but please be respectful of eachother, no matter how wrong you think someone else is~

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G...g....gypsy wagons... this is something I have been dreaming in a chat with friends. Yes! Never made suggestion about it, but the idea is exactly that.

(I was personally even thinking the Gypsy wagon would be just 50s trader item with the FSB+BSB+Cart hold+Forge+Bed in it and have 2 horses hitched to it remain hitched trough server restarts and the cart would receive "no repair" DMG like large magic chests).

Edited by Raybarg

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Also, where a large cart may travel 12km/h,

Large cart may travel much faster - depends on horses.

-1 for Sawmill (80 or so planks is not a lots of materials... lots of materials is 500+ planks. Sawmills have been suggested many times and always rejected - it will just make this game to easy and will take oportunity to earn money from noobs)

+1 for Gypsy wagons, but this idea was suggested more than once here aswell.

-1 for FSB, BSB and forge inside gypsy wagon - cause people will construct gypsy wagons instead of bsbs and fsbs and probably instead of large cart aswell. Only bed and storage place like in small cart would be ok. No oven/forge - you can make campfire outside.

Edited by archer

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Sawmills have been suggested many times and always rejected - supported except by like 4 people.

Fixed it for ya.

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I'll support machines that doesn't automate crafting. Saying that they can be balanced out by high material/skill requirements is bollocks because A. Once they're built you can reap their benefits forever, and B Experienced/established players can already mass-produce planks better than anyone and don't need further aid.

An acceptable implementation of machinery would be one that reduces clicking, but still require constant player attention in some form. I propose something along the lines of a really long action (for continuous plank creation, say a few minutes long) that is interrupted at regular intervals by quicktime events that require players to press/click certain buttons to continue the action. That way we end up with something that slightly reduces the strain of creation actions without turning the game into "AFK Crafting Online".

Though I strongly suspect that AFK crafting is exactly what some people have in mind when they're supporting introduction of machines.

Edited by EliasTheCrimson
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Wurm economy = time spent. It would ruin the economy of plank-sales, but could boost the economy of house-building or boat-buildings, since building houses would be "cheaper" and therefore more people could hire people to build houses for them, or boats, etc.

It also would be fine if mills were pegged to produce low QL wood, as a rule. No more than 1/2 QL of mill.

Complete automation (akin to melting ores) wouldn't be desirable I think, but sticking 10 logs into a mill, activating the mill (timer of 5 mins?), and getting 50 planks out of it, doesn't seem to be a bad idea.

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No automations in general, and no you didn't fix that Elen -.-

Bad idea for machines like that to be added, they are rejected by most people every time they are suggested.

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Man, gypsy wagons would be awesome, a little roving home with a few of the amenities while you cruise around the world. +1 from me.

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I like the idea of Gipsy Wagon but with a big constraint on the slopes and the road type it can go through.

I'll like the same mobile housing system with boats.

The sawmill would be a great idea. No real automation : you have to constantly put stuffs in it to get the product (oil, wheat...). Still time consuming.

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-1111 Just say no to automated production. Yet again for the umpteenth time.

Man, someone needs to put a sticky about no automation. It really gets old.

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-1 for Sawmill (80 or so planks is not a lots of materials... lots of materials is 500+ planks. Sawmills have been suggested many times and always rejected - it will just make this game to easy and will take oportunity to earn money from noobs)

Does anyone that can pay for the game on their own do these types of task for silver to pay for the game? To me it just seems like exploitation of people who for some reason or another can't pay in any other way getting them to do endless tedious tasks at far less than minimum wage. It's not something to be encouraged but a problem that needs fixing.

no automation. Its a nice idea but it would ruin the economy.

I'm sure the people at the top of it certainly don't want to lose their edge that they spent months or years working for so that they can exploit those at the bottom and use newbies as their source of automation. I honestly don't care about it and really hope that there's eventually an accelerated PvE cluster so that anyone that doesn't care about the economy and doesn't want PvP can just leave to a server where they can enjoy the game rather than being used as tools. The only reason there are a few supporters is because anyone that wants it gets flamed and run off for the mere notion of it.

Man, someone needs to put a sticky about no automation. It really gets old.

Has Rolf indicated that there are no plans for further automated stuff or is it just the general consensus among the people on the forum? Because there already is automation in the game which has been in game for years as far as I know. People already use templars to automatically farm corpses and coal piles once built and lit automatically generate resources without the player having to actively do anything. Sawmills and windmills could operate under similar principles and just take heavy damage on use and frequently need maintenance. They could have a limited input inventory so that they need to be regularly filled and produce lesser quality goods without providing any skill gain for use. So it would be a quality trade off for having to deal with less clicks and timer watching when making bulk goods as well as save some poor children from early carpel tunnel that would otherwise end up with the task.

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Does anyone that can pay for the game on their own do these types of task for silver to pay for the game? To me it just seems like exploitation of people who for some reason or another can't pay in any other way getting them to do endless tedious tasks at far less than minimum wage. It's not something to be encouraged but a problem that needs fixing.

I'm sure the people at the top of it certainly don't want to lose their edge that they spent months or years working for so that they can exploit those at the bottom and use newbies as their source of automation. I honestly don't care about it and really hope that there's eventually an accelerated PvE cluster so that anyone that doesn't care about the economy and doesn't want PvP can just leave to a server where they can enjoy the game rather than being used as tools. The only reason there are a few supporters is because anyone that wants it gets flamed and run off for the mere notion of it.

Has Rolf indicated that there are no plans for further automated stuff or is it just the general consensus among the people on the forum? Because there already is automation in the game which has been in game for years as far as I know. People already use templars to automatically farm corpses and coal piles once built and lit automatically generate resources without the player having to actively do anything. Sawmills and windmills could operate under similar principles and just take heavy damage on use and frequently need maintenance. They could have a limited input inventory so that they need to be regularly filled and produce lesser quality goods without providing any skill gain for use. So it would be a quality trade off for having to deal with less clicks and timer watching when making bulk goods as well as save some poor children from early carpel tunnel that would otherwise end up with the task.

fair enough for me, since coal piles allready exist and are automatic, i propose sawmill, 25 bricks + 25 mortar, + 1 saw, put 5 logs on it, get 30 planks and the mill get destroyed, same as a coal pile.

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fair enough for me, since coal piles allready exist and are automatic, i propose sawmill, 25 bricks + 25 mortar, + 1 saw, put 5 logs on it, get 30 planks and the mill get destroyed, same as a coal pile.

Not destroyed, but maybe simply Broken, and needs to be repaired and reimped to be used again. Also it should take longer than it takes a player to make 30 planks. Less clicks at the sacrifice of time, to say the very least.

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Not destroyed, but maybe simply Broken, and needs to be repaired and reimped to be used again. Also it should take longer than it takes a player to make 30 planks. Less clicks at the sacrifice of time, to say the very least.

Since you made a paralell with coal piles, coal piles get totally destroyed, not brocken, they just banish, and if you want to make more charcoal you need to make a new pile.

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Since you made a parallel with coal piles, coal piles get totally destroyed, not broken, they just banish, and if you want to make more charcoal you need to make a new pile.

But it's not logical for something made of wood and bricks and metal to just fall apart and disintegrate. A charcoal pile I expect to, since the whole thing is made to burn down slowly, hence making charcoal. :huh:

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Since you made a paralell with coal piles, coal piles get totally destroyed, not brocken, they just banish, and if you want to make more charcoal you need to make a new pile.

No need to be facetious. The parallel was that it was the automatic unattended generation of materials. I wasn't saying it should be identical. It is a bit nonsensical for the mill to go poof on use unless it gets super damaged like it works for anything else and would stop operating should it drop below 10 quality. The time investment would be repairing it and imping it back up to some more usable level. At lower QLs it would take damage exceedingly fast and hit an effective QL of 10 after a small amount of logs. To make sure that even at higher QLs that it wouldn't produce too many planks without maintenance the base QL could slowly drop as well as the typical damage increase on use. It would produce planks slower than a player and at a lower quality it would just take less direct attention per plank than manually sawing them so that a player can be using their time on other stuff.

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There is really nothing to say a sawmill needs to be automated at all. What I picture is the following horse powered sawmill.

Provide power to mill (which would require driving the animals periodically, like once a minute maybe) ~ 1 action taking about 15 seconds

Load log via right-click action into hopper (hopper holding maybe 5 logs?). ~ 1 action taking 4 seconds per log

Engage driveshaft via right click action. ~ 1 action taking 2 seconds

Run mill (this is your plank producing action right here) via right click - I think 2 planks per action here would be about right. ~ 1 action taking 10 seconds

So it starts less effectient than a saw ~ 4 actions taking 31 seconds for 2 planks.

As you keep running you would gain effeciency as the animals keep moving ~ 10 seconds per additional 2 planks

The efficiency gains of not losing stamina would tempered via having to add another log here and there and keep the animals motivated.

Could even be made to produce more scrap to lower productivity if needbe.

Also, QL could be machine QL dependant, not that plank QL matters to a person wanting this many planks.

People are so afraid of automation they start seeing its ghost everywhere :rolleyes:

~~~edit: For a windpowered mill you could tag usage to having enough wind - and from the right direction, instead of the horses

~~~edit2: As an additional note of balance, I'm pretty sure my enchanted saw would outpace this.

Edited by Elen

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