Sheep Panic!

[Bachus 462]

Wool wouldnt be used for healing, wool has bacteria and such so unless you add a process where you use the loom to make a dirty bandage and water to clean it, either way wool clothes, and maybe decorations, curtains and junk idk would be good

Could use lye to bleach / disinfect the wool making it whiter and useful as a bandage as well.

[ReaverKane 363]

Butchering would give Meat, hide, bladder, tail, hoof and eye, simmilar to cows and horses.

Should be milked

Metal Shears, for shearing them -> Shearing would use animal husbandry, and ql of wool would be Dependant on AH skill.

Cloth Tailoring recipes:

Wool->Spindle->Rough Wool String/Yarn

Rough Wool String -> Spindle->Cloth String (same uses as made from cotton)

Rough Wool String (3 kg) -> Loom-> Wool Covers (can replace Fur on beds)

Rough Wool String (0.4 kg) -> Loom-> Kilt (why not?)

Rough Wool String (0.8 kg (same as jacket+legs for cloth should do it, or just round up to 1kg) -> Loom-> Wool Cloak (Decorative Item for torso (back), gives protection against elemental wounds (Ice, Fire, etc) to torso, legs and feet can be enchanted with protective spells, like Vynora's Hand, Nolocate, etc. Could be white originally, then dyed and be made to show dye color)

Rough Wool String (12kg, like barding) -> Loom->Large Wool Cloak (Equipable on animals, same as other wool cloak)

Knitting Needles, for knitting

Rough Wool String (0,2 kg) -> Knitting needles -> Balaclava (Should be equippable in the FACE - Would give minor protection against eye injury from elemental wounds)

Rough Wool String (0,2 kg) -> Knitting needles -> Knitted Hat (Skully type hat, like all wool things would give minor protection against elemental wounds)

Rough Wool String (0,1 kg) -> Knitting needles -> Wool Gloves

Rough Wool String (0,5 kg) -> Knitting needles -> Wool Jumper

Rough Wool String (0,3 kg) -> Knitting needles -> Wool Leggings

Rough Wool String (0,2 kg) -> Knitting needles -> Wool Sleeves

Rough Wool String (0,1 kg) -> Knitting needles -> Wool Sock (can be worn under boots and shoes - Increases resistance to element damage)

*Wool Should be slightly stronger than Cloth in terms of armor strength

Wool (0.3 kg) -> Mallet (or press) -> Square Piece of Felt (Could be used to polish items replacing pelts)

Square Piece of Felt (0,3kg) -> Needle -> Felt Hat (Armor strength between wool and leather)

Square Piece of Felt (0,1kg) -> Needle -> Felt Gloves

Square Piece of Felt (0,5kg) -> Needle -> Felt jacket

Square Piece of Felt (0,3kg) -> Needle -> Felt Pants

Square Piece of Felt (0,2kg) -> Needle -> Felt Sleeves

Square Piece of Felt (0,1kg) -> Needle -> Felt Shoes

Square Piece of Felt (1kg) -> Needle -> Felt Bag (Could be used to keep objects warm for a longer period, also could slow/prevent decay of SOLID food on inventory)

Square piece of Cloth (0.5kg) -> Needle -> Tabard (can be equipped on top of other armor, Could be originaly made white, then be dyed, and show proper dye color)

Embroidery Skill (tailoring sub-skill):

Rough Wool String (0.5kg) -> Square Piece of Cloth(1kg) -> "X"* Embroidered Rug (Equivalent to Exquisite)

Rough Wool String (1kg) -> Square Piece of Cloth(3kg) -> "X"* Embroidery (Activate Embroidery, right click Wall (no windows or doors) -> Hang) The embroidery would show on the wall.

Rough Wool String (0.1kg) -> Tabard -> "X"* Embroidered Tabard

Rough Wool String (0.1kg) -> Any Cloak -> "X"* Embroidered Cloak

* The "X" should be replaced with a descriptor, like Freedom Isles Embroidery, which would be a image of the Freedom Isles coat of arms. Or Hunting Embroidery, would show a hunting scene, etc. In case of Tabards and cloaks, only coats of arms should be allowed.

Leatherworking:

Animal Fur -> Wool Cloak -> Fur Trimmed Cloak

Animal Fur -> Wool Cloak -> Fur coat (incomplete - Needs 2 more furs)

English isn't my native language... Upon reading the Other posts, remembered Rough Wool String could be replaced with Yarn String...

Edited January 24, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Noffo 4]

I've not read all the way through this huge thread (would rather log on an play), so I apologize in advance if I'm repeating something already suggested.

Sheers (smithing) to harvest the wool would produce Fleece.

The fleece would then need Scouring (barrel, water, lye) to yield Wool and Lanolin.

Spinning Wheel (carpentry) to make the wool into yarn.

The yarn could, at this point, be improved and dyed.

Then use the loom to create the rug, knitting needles to create other clothing, or a crochet hook to create a blanket.

The Lanolin could be used for (since we now have females in Wurm) cosmetics. It's also good for waterproofing, not that there's any need for that at this point though.

[AlphaWolfen 160]

Would be nice to have the ability to improve armor with wool or somthing to make it look nice or to add style just to have a way of personalize armor

[Joanavon 553]

Perhaps in conjunction with very high fine carp skill, other animal furs and cotton sheets the fleece could make a second type of bed that endowed a second benefit but which like an enchant decayed with each use until becoming a normal bed.

[Martynas5 435]

Sheeps will be good addition to the game. Either extended tailoring skill creations

[einnel 13]

Shears (blacksmithing) to harvest the wool

Wool to be treated just like cotton cloth, but with (some) different things you can make with it

Some sort of craftable padding to wear with Chain or Plate armor, which counteracts their speed penalty a little (depending on QL)

[Vorg 5]

Wild Growth on a sheep! ;D

Also Vorg you can lead animals, so it isn't the end of the world but loading animals onto ship would be great

You totally missed what I said. If it can't swim, you can't lead it home if you are on an island.

And with the spawn caps non-hostial animals are not spawning anyway. The ones people already have prevent it.

[Hussars 511]

If we assume changes to the animal population limits and that sheep will be force spawned into the world.

For every set number of sheep in a set number of tiles for more than a certain number of in-Wurm or RL days, make wolves spawn.

Wolves target sheep before any other creature, unless attacked. If more than one wolf is present, they "assist" the one being attacked.

Trained pets (combat types) left online in the same tile area as the sheep reduce the number of wolves spawned by <insert value> for each pet. Can be exploited by alts, but is partially limited by pet upkeep.

This helps keep the breeder populations in check, increases hostile spawns for those who want them, and can be avoided by not reaching the "trigger" amount of sheep.

The number of sheep to spawn a single wolf should be within reason (maybe 5-10), and then additional wolves are added in increments from there.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Hussars

[ReaverKane 363]

OH, forgot to mention this. It might be usefull to have one or all of these situations about sheep:

1- Visual Fleece growth indicators (basically 3 skins to the animal, a Shorn skin, a "normal" skin, and a "Ripe" skin - ready to shear)

2- Mouse over indicator, similar to crops, At 20 AH (first trait level) mouse hovering a sheep would Show:

"Shorn", "Short Wool", "Long Wool".

3- Examining the Sheep should Yeld a wool growth message:

"The sheep has been shorn recently"

"This sheep's wool/fleece is growing."

"This sheep's wool/fleece is almost at perfect length."

"This sheep's wool/fleece is long and ready to shear."

You could also consider a couple more stages, and maybe waiting a bit after its ready to shear might yield more wool, but after a while it would yield more, but lower ql.

Also, the condition of the sheep could influence the ql of the wool:

Disease would yield less wool.

Some negative traits (shorter legs, some kind of illness, feeble) would cause the sheep to produce less wool, and lower quality.

Some positive traits (strong body, Strong and healthy, etc) would cause the sheep to produce more wool, and with better quality.

Age could be a factor on production:

Young would yeld no wool (be stuck at growing)

Adolescent would yeld minimum ammounts, Mature, aged and old would yeld max ammounts, Venerable (since they're smaller) would yeld half the maximum ammount.

Also grooming (like farming) would have a positive influence on the quantity and quality of produced wool.

[Drpox 73]

OH, forgot to mention this. It might be usefull to have one or all of these situations about sheep:

1- Visual Fleece growth indicators (basically 3 skins to the animal, a Shorn skin, a "normal" skin, and a "Ripe" skin - ready to shear)

2- Mouse over indicator, similar to crops, At 20 AH (first trait level) mouse hovering a sheep would Show:

"Shorn", "Short Wool", "Long Wool".

3- Examining the Sheep should Yeld a wool growth message:

"The sheep has been shorn recently"

"This sheep's wool/fleece is growing."

"This sheep's wool/fleece is almost at perfect length."

"This sheep's wool/fleece is long and ready to shear."

You could also consider a couple more stages, and maybe waiting a bit after its ready to shear might yield more wool, but after a while it would yield more, but lower ql.

Also, the condition of the sheep could influence the ql of the wool:

Disease would yield less wool.

Some negative traits (shorter legs, some kind of illness, feeble) would cause the sheep to produce less wool, and lower quality.

Some positive traits (strong body, Strong and healthy, etc) would cause the sheep to produce more wool, and with better quality.

Age could be a factor on production:

Young would yeld no wool (be stuck at growing)

Adolescent would yeld minimum ammounts, Mature, aged and old would yeld max ammounts, Venerable (since they're smaller) would yeld half the maximum ammount.

Also grooming (like farming) would have a positive influence on the quantity and quality of produced wool.

Excellent suggestion +1

[Smilingcat 442]

It should be possible to milk the sheeps too.

Maybe sheep cheese could make favor rise faster?

Or a healthy salad with cheep chese and... parsley or something, that would make wounds heal faster?

Just a wild suggestion but i would like it ;-P

We need a new skill: knitting. Also a new tool: knitting needles.

Knitting could produce:

Fancy wool hats, shawls, socks and gloves.

Maybe a knit dress too.

Knitting should increase soul depth.

Once we have male cats in the game i would also suggest wool jarns for them to play with. For some... to be determined effect.

Can we get fancy cats too please? I love cats!

Edited January 25, 2013 by Smilingcat

[GravityDog 41]

What are sheep for?

he he he

[belthize 438]

Wurm, where the women are men and the sheep are scared.

[joedobo 1,187]

I'd love to hear how you all are planning to handle the fact that sheep will exaggerated the non-aggro animal cap problem. Sheep are essentially a meet source and a substitute for cotton. Its cool we are getting them but I foresee problems.

My suggestion?

Sheep pens which are animal bulk storage bins.

1. Minimum size is 3x3 tiles.

2. You can have 1 sheep per 2 tiles.

3. The sheep are put in the pen and are removed from the creature AI pool

4. Client side images of sheep wander around in the pen. They are just for looks. As far as the server is concerned the sheep are stored in the Pen object.

5. Stock the pen with food and water. Keep in mind how much effort it takes now to feed horses. I spend around 20 seconds every 4 days per a horse.

6. Once a day the server does a quick linear algebra evolution using variables: food stock, animals counts, randomness. Outcomes could consists of fatter sheep, more whool, death

[ReaverKane 363]

I'd love to hear how you all are planning to handle the fact that sheep will exaggerated the non-aggro animal cap problem. Sheep are essentially a meet source and a substitute for cotton. Its cool we are getting them but I foresee problems.

My suggestion?

Sheep pens which are animal bulk storage bins.

1. Minimum size is 3x3 tiles.

2. You can have 1 sheep per 2 tiles.

3. The sheep are put in the pen and are removed from the creature AI pool

4. Client side images of sheep wander around in the pen. They are just for looks. As far as the server is concerned the sheep are stored in the Pen object.

5. Stock the pen with food and water. Keep in mind how much effort it takes now to feed horses. I spend around 20 seconds every 4 days per a horse.

6. Once a day the server does a quick linear algebra evolution using variables: food stock, animals counts, randomness. Outcomes could consists of fatter sheep, more whool, death

Yeah, animal "bsb" have been suggested for ages, i myself support that. But it dawned to me this will probably be impossible. Simply because of traits. I mean bsb are possible because they transform 1log ql 32.1+1 log ql 32.1+1 log ql 31 to 3x log ql 31.7.

With animals you can't do that... You can't average the traits. So bulks animal storage wouldn't help because it would still have to keep the DB running the same number of entries, specially because bred traited animals are basically all named, have different colors, and different traits. Averaging this would be not really feasible.

Also, unless unicorns don't count toward the non-aggro cap. At least on exodus unicorns still spawn a lot. That, and MAYBE there are too many wilds. Maybe reduce those a bit, and increase the non-aggro cap.

[joedobo 1,187]

Yeah, animal "bsb" have been suggested for ages, i myself support that. But it dawned to me this will probably be impossible. Simply because of traits.

With animals you can't do that... You can't average the traits.

Yes you can't average traits, and all the other hidden values that define an animals.

You can transfer all the unique data that defines an animals, ie traits and stats, to an object that doesn't get serviced by the AI code. While animals probably do have more defining data then say a rock shard, I'm pretty sure the creature limit is explained by all the AI code that uses the defining data to do stuff. Granted I,m not skilled at designing data storage shcemes. But how about a database table for each pen with columns that match a sheep's characteristics/traits/whatever. Each row would be a specific sheep. Once a day when the server services a Sheep pen it could update that table.

[Drpox 73]

Traits??

Sheep races anyone?

[ReaverKane 363]

Yes you can't average traits, and all the other hidden values that define an animals.

You can transfer all the unique data that defines an animals, ie traits and stats, to an object that doesn't get serviced by the AI code. While animals probably do have more defining data then say a rock shard, I'm pretty sure the creature limit is explained by all the AI code that uses the defining data to do stuff. Granted I,m not skilled at designing data storage shcemes. But how about a database table for each pen with columns that match a sheep's characteristics/traits/whatever. Each row would be a specific sheep. Once a day when the server services a Sheep pen it could update that table.

I think the animal limit has more to do with number of unique items on database, rather than AI (since AI would be mostly client side).

The pens would simply be a new table or a new database. Which could be created without the pens, if it was the answer.

[joedobo 1,187]

I think the animal limit has more to do with number of unique items on database, rather than AI (since AI would be mostly client side).

The pens would simply be a new table or a new database. Which could be created without the pens, if it was the answer.

My words are conjecture but I can attempt to support that AI is the limiting factor.

Server graphs show item count at 1,270,000 and the animal cap is about 1% of that at 17,000. Before bulk bins I alone has 10,000 items in just farm crops.

Based on this I don't think its unique item counts.

I've seen devs use this quote many times, "clients can't be trusted". Its very unlikely that clients are handling most of AI. I think the server does everything and the client just draws pictures where and how its told.

Another way to store animals would be to take their database statics and dump them to CSV, archive and save that file. The Pen's database file will have an index to the archive. When you take an animal out of the pen, its file is unpacked and various values are updated based on how well you took care of the Pen. Or if you really slack off the pen will just delete the packed file and remove the animal (it died).

[Keldun 335]

It is not so much that the clients can be trusted with it. The server checks for client integrity at start up and the client handles player collision checks completely on it's own.

It's rather that all players need access to the exact same movement and combat data for the animals, so those need to be server side and AI is always creating a big chunk of constant load to a game server.

Item count itself isn't even a problem as that only takes hdd space. The problem is interacting with items, mainly seeing them. For example, the game only keeps track of any bsbs that are visible to some player, but it doesn't care about the contents of that bsb until the player opens it.

So animal "bsbs" would be a really effective measure, you don't even have to worry about anything like averaging traits or something. Just strip the animals of their AI and list each individual animal in the pen.

You can even have the client draw each pen animal and provide the examine command, as it doesn't matter much which player sees which animal where, as long as they all are in the pen but even the random distribution can be synchronized.

You only have to remove the animal from the pen list and put it on the pen tiles for real when someone leads with a rope or starts a fight.

[Darkmalice 242]

Dye a Wool Cloak Black, Grim reaper type cloak

and wearable over armour.

[ReaverKane 363]

It is not so much that the clients can be trusted with it. The server checks for client integrity at start up and the client handles player collision checks completely on it's own.

It's rather that all players need access to the exact same movement and combat data for the animals, so those need to be server side and AI is always creating a big chunk of constant load to a game server.

Item count itself isn't even a problem as that only takes hdd space. The problem is interacting with items, mainly seeing them. For example, the game only keeps track of any bsbs that are visible to some player, but it doesn't care about the contents of that bsb until the player opens it.

So animal "bsbs" would be a really effective measure, you don't even have to worry about anything like averaging traits or something. Just strip the animals of their AI and list each individual animal in the pen.

You can even have the client draw each pen animal and provide the examine command, as it doesn't matter much which player sees which animal where, as long as they all are in the pen but even the random distribution can be synchronized.

You only have to remove the animal from the pen list and put it on the pen tiles for real when someone leads with a rope or starts a fight.

But this is client side... The server side has to track ALL bsb and items. But while 1000 items inside a bsb are an attribute on that bsb's database, each animal and item outside bsb are individual tokens.

Of course Ai has a tax on the server, mainly to update position, which is why items are less limited than animals, but its mostly about not what you see, but how taxing it is for the server to handle data about all the objects. And affecting AI movement wouldn't be that big of a improvement.

If you think about it, if the problem would be "what you see" limiting animals on the server would make no sense, it would simply be a matter of "culling" what animals would be visible on the client. (like guildwars 2 is so innefectibly doing in wvw).

Edited January 26, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Dorian 865]

Wool for clothes of course is the most obvious sheep product.

Milk would be great.

Meat, hoof, eye etc for eating and healing covers like other animals of course.

How about a skull? Good for cheap helms or on the top of staffs to go with those death type robes.

[KiltedDemon31 0]

Wool Blankets Cloaks Shirts and pants.