Sheep Panic!

[Farmerbob 369]

Let's See:

Sheep = hide, meat, alchemy stuff of course. Standard items.

Use scissors on live sheep = shearing skill and generates wool.

*Could make this based on Animal Husbandry skill, or make it a subskill of animal husbandry.

Wool + spindle = yarn = tailoring / cloth tailoring skillset

Yarn + loom = various woolen items of types that already exist. Cloth armor, meditation rugs, etc.

Yarn could be used to tame wildcats and mountain lions >.>

Yarn could be used as fuel like cotton.

Some potential new items:

1) Blankets as a substitute for furs to make beds

2) Sleeping roll for reduced sleep bonus gain. Works outdoors. High decay, unrepairable item like a pelt. Mendable. Quality impacts what % of sleep bonus it can generate for player. Cloth/Tailoring skillset

3) Blanket + two backpacks = saddlebags for horse. Leather/Tailoring skillset

[joedobo 1,187]

But this is client side... The server side has to track ALL bsb and items. But while 1000 items inside a bsb are an attribute on that bsb's database, each animal and item outside bsb are individual tokens.

Of course Ai has a tax on the server, mainly to update position, which is why items are less limited than animals, but its mostly about not what you see, but how taxing it is for the server to handle data about all the objects. And affecting AI movement wouldn't be that big of a improvement.

If you think about it, if the problem would be "what you see" limiting animals on the server would make no sense, it would simply be a matter of "culling" what animals would be visible on the client. (like guildwars 2 is so innefectibly doing in wvw).

synchronizing all local animals with all local players does consume resources. It makes sense to me that its part of the problem. Heck the more people coming and going the more the data has to be access, use to construct, and communicated to clients.

ReaverKane, think of this way and compare these two.

1. a data base entry that is access hundreds of times a day, maybe even thousands. The data is used for everything about animals (its far more the just updating position).

2. That same entry that is access maybe once a month and potentially even less then that. Its possible we could birth, breed, butcher, and collect resources from the Pen. Also the entry here has been moved to a separate grouping (table perhaps) where the frequent accesses aren't mixed within.

[JudusX 199]

I would also like milk for a product but I think it needs more functionality other than just cheese.

I agree that spawn rates are a problem, I personally would like to see the passive animal cap raised and aggressive lowered. This would only be a temp fix but it would allow us to enjoy sheep and other non agros while the problem is fixed or fix the problem and I can be patient for sheep later.

I would agree with you joedobo barns would be nice but that would kill the usefulness of enchanted grass. I still feel that enchanted grass was nerfed as a way to help kill off non aggressives. If there was a way to implement enchanted grass tiles to a barn I would be all for it. Management would be easier but the option to have free roaming pens should still be an option.

Just to beat a dead horse drop the timer a bit for enchanted grass, you take away the usefulness of it then take away some cooldown.

as far as sheep stuff I would like to see black sheep and make products made from black wool more usefull, for example black cloaks/tabards sporting kingdom emblems or custom pictures for alliances/villages.

[Pomona 791]

For the wool making process can I point you to this page,http://www.blackberry-ridge.com/prosdscr.htm obviously a shortened version would be needed but there are many opportunities for new items especially carpentry. We could have new items like Spinning Wheels, brushes, combing boards, bobbins etc

Sheep shearing could be a seasonal event like the Olive Oil etc but linked with spring. Lanolin after the washing process could be used to make items waterproof like maybe an animal raft to transport animals across water (I know alot of players would really like an option to move creatures to island areas, could coding be linked with how horses are hitched to carts?)

Would love to see Rams that randomly butt you when you get near them - but thats just my evil side showing

[Keldun 335]

But this is client side... The server side has to track ALL bsb and items. But while 1000 items inside a bsb are an attribute on that bsb's database, each animal and item outside bsb are individual tokens.

Of course Ai has a tax on the server, mainly to update position, which is why items are less limited than animals, but its mostly about not what you see, but how taxing it is for the server to handle data about all the objects. And affecting AI movement wouldn't be that big of a improvement.

If you think about it, if the problem would be "what you see" limiting animals on the server would make no sense, it would simply be a matter of "culling" what animals would be visible on the client. (like guildwars 2 is so innefectibly doing in wvw).

The server doesn't need to keep track of all items all of the time. The ones it doesn't need (such as those out of local of anyone, or inside a container) it just throws on the HDD and "forgets" about them until they are needed. This doesn't apply to animals, because they need to be processed constantly.

But either way, the relevant items and animal data are mostly taxing the RAM and network and a bit of CPU to move them around.

And it's not the position update that is taxing on the server, that is equal to a single crafting action or item drop. It's the AI, the constant scanning of the surroundings of each animal and the decision making that puts surprisingly much strain on the CPU.

[Silures 91]

I'm sure the sheep of around 1000ad were less refined ancestors of the fluffballs bred these days. Without looking it up I think they resembled a mountain goat more than a fluffball. It would be far better seeing something looking like those than something bred much later in time if indeed this is the case. Worth adding here I hope?

[eshy 2]

Sheers > wool > spindle > wool Cloth/thread <clothes/Tapestries/Rugs> and as mentioned above, lamb chops when butchered. **I give a +100 in my book for all these mentioned**

tapestries!!! Rugs!! mutton...shepards pie...lamb chops...might as well make goats...goats milk. goats milk cheese. tailors can make cheese cloth. add to buildings....a manger for sheeps/goats.

[ReaverKane 363]

For the wool making process can I point you to this page,http://www.blackberr...om/prosdscr.htm obviously a shortened version would be needed but there are many opportunities for new items especially carpentry. We could have new items like Spinning Wheels, brushes, combing boards, bobbins etc

Sheep shearing could be a seasonal event like the Olive Oil etc but linked with spring. Lanolin after the washing process could be used to make items waterproof like maybe an animal raft to transport animals across water (I know alot of players would really like an option to move creatures to island areas, could coding be linked with how horses are hitched to carts?)

Would love to see Rams that randomly butt you when you get near them - but thats just my evil side showing

Actually shearing is done in all seasons. Also, for population sake its best if its done like crops, since it being seasonal (like olives) would mean that anyone involved with sheep breeding would keep as many as possible, even worse than horses or any other animal in-game.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Klaa 4,872]

Milking has a cooldown period of approx an hour if the animal is grazing. That rate is probably far too often for shearing; though, such depends on the volume of wool one gains per sheep.

Perhaps every 24hrs?

Edited January 28, 2013 by Klaa

[Elen 1,013]

24 hours seems crazy fast considering irl a sheep is good for one or maybe* (longshot) two shears a YEAR. (see reference one)

At wurm's x8 speed this would be every 45 rl days, so I'd propose 30 days to be a little nicer.

~ this would assume a fairly large volume of wool per shear, like 5kg or so (see second reference)

References:
/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_shearing
/>http://www.sheep101.info/wool.html

Edited January 28, 2013 by Elen

[Klaa 4,872]

Was thinking in terms of using sheep wool as a more easily obtained alternative to using cotton for bandaging. Im unsure how effective sheep wool is in this usage persay; though, I believe cotton performs better for various reasons. Assuming this is true, Wurm cotton could heal more dmg in correlation to the difficulty in finding seeds, growing, and harvesting cotton.

On other uses, I believe early felt was primarily made from wool; though, I cannot say offhand what felt can be used for in Wurm. It serves as cushioning and dampening, along with various styles of hats.

Primarily animal wool traps heat more effectively than cotton, and cotton breathes better by comparison. However, temperature concerns are not a factor in Wurm yet.

EDIT: Well assuming cloth with both wool and cotton types.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Klaa

[Elen 1,013]

various styles of hats.

My current biggest desire for wurm right there.

[Klaa 4,872]

Indeed... my favorite hat is a wide-brimmed felt hat:

http://www.villagehatshop.com/golden-gate_desperado.html

Wears well from rough usage, easy to clean, and I can crush it into a compact shape. Course widebrims in general are great for sun, rain, and snow, get alot of that in the pacific northwest.

[Holar 1,484]

Yes give me something else to have in my house

[ReaverKane 363]

24 hours seems crazy fast considering irl a sheep is good for one or maybe* (longshot) two shears a YEAR. (see reference one)

At wurm's x8 speed this would be every 45 rl days, so I'd propose 30 days to be a little nicer.

~ this would assume a fairly large volume of wool per shear, like 5kg or so (see second reference)

References:

http://en.wikipedia..../Sheep_shearing

http://www.sheep101.info/wool.html

Too long, would also make it that people keep lots of sheep.

Look at breeding... Real life horses have gestations of nearly a year (usually around 11 months) yet in Wurm its ~4-11 RL days (wurm weeks).

So by these standards a 6 month period to sheering would translate to ~6 Real life days, not 30. Also you should note its a game... Its not really supposed to go by RL standards... But still i'd say between 5-8 RL days for wool growth would be just about right.

About weight, i think 3kg (the us average according to one of your posts would be around that) is just right IF there's no loss when stringing, otherwise, i'd say 6-8kg per sheep. Why is this? Well, a high end farmer (60+) would get 6 kg of cotton (not counting re-sowing) per tile farmed, with stringing producing half that weight in rags, that means 3kg of cotton per tile. Of course, even then, if wool is used as a mere replacement for cotton, one would need hundreds of sheep to get yields obtainable in a medium sized field. Which is why its important to balance the productivity of sheep to avoid even more "hoarding" issues. Also Wool should create parallel/alternate items (more or less what i suggested back there), not be used as another source for cloth string.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Elen 1,013]

Too long, would also make it that people keep lots of sheep.

Maybe the horse problems with overpopulation and non-agro caps would be lessened if they had used the x8 speed instead of ~x55. (41 RL day pregnacies and such) Would make horses more valuable too.

Your probably right on the 'would make people keep lots' part though but then again, with 90% overlap of use with cotton, and lower rate of production, they might not be mega-farmed as much.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Elen

[Mouchard 22]

Quilts, Pillows, Coats, Animal bedding for pets (SB for pet?), Wicks for lanterns,

Wool + oil/tar + jar = short ranged weapon with fire damage.

Acts as kindling.

Imps Pendulums for better accuracy in water detection. (rubbing wool on metal generates a charge)

[Klaa 4,872]

Hrm animals can gain skills from usage same as players, so I can see SB for pets.

[impendent 13]

7 days max on wool refill, Or else ill just breed 500 of them to stay in stock

[ReaverKane 363]

Maybe the horse problems with overpopulation and non-agro caps would be lessened if they had used the x8 speed instead of ~x55. (41 RL day pregnacies and such) Would make horses more valuable too.

Your probably right on the 'would make people keep lots' part though but then again, with 90% overlap of use with cotton, and lower rate of production, they might not be mega-farmed as much.

That would actually increase it?

Cause then, since (although wurm players are more patient than most) people don't like to wait, there would be twice or more the horse pop, just to keep seeing new ones... Instead of having your old foals be aged before you get a new horse... Also waiting over one month for a new foal, lets say 1 gold wouldn't be enough for a 5-speed horse.

[joedobo 1,187]

Wool production should be frequent and numerous I'd argue one sheep has the potential to make resources equal to 25 farm tiles. It would be a very bad choice to implement another game mechanic that encourages players to hoard even more animals. Sheep sound like they are going to be very useful and considering the domestic resource pool is maxed out it doesn't look promising to me. All this is assuming they don't implement some measure to remove farm animals from the creature pool.

[Veryth 21]

Pretty much all of my suggestions are mentioned already, but I'll say them anyway:

Wool tailoring

• Clothing and assorted other things, especially cloaks and skirts/dresses.
  
• Knitting/crochet would be awesome.
  
• I don't know if spinning wheels fit the time period, and the drop spindles aren't that hard to make yarn with. Possibly add carders to turn the wool into rolags and spin those.
  
• Wool is both warm and flame resistant, so wool clothing should give bonus protection against both fire and cold spells.
  

Lanolin (Wool wax, quotes taken from http://www.lanolin.c...plications.html)

• Lanolin is a product of the washing process that readies wool for turning into textiles.
  
• Could be used in Natural Substances as an additive to covers and salves.
  
  • "In burn dressings, lanolin supports the wound healing process and enhances dermal repair."
    

  [*]Could be used to improve leather items (separate from the usual imping process), or added to iron/steel armour and woolen items to reduce damage over time.

  • "In the Middle Ages, knights' armour and tools were coated with a thin waxy film of lanolin, which conserved them through to modern times."
    

Butchering products (Hides, animal bits, sheepskin, etc.)

Sheep milk and cheese - It would be nice to have more sources for the dairy skills.

[Nadineb 65]

I donno if its been said yet, but I've had this idea for some time now;

Saddle blanket / pad

• Requires 1kg of wool cloth (can be made from cotton too) and scissors to create.
  
• Complete with needle and string of cloth
  
• Used under the saddle
  
• Is visable and dyable
  
• Changeable when the horse is tamed
  
• Very little speed bonus due to improved horse comfort
  
• Actually more of a fasion thing; can help to keep fully tacked horses apart without looking at their names
  

Skeep Skin Saddle Cover

• Requires a sheep skin (butcher material, hide + fur) and scissors to create.
  
• Complete with needle and string of cloth (for attachment)
  
• Goes on top of the saddle
  
• More comfort for the rider, slight speed bonus
  
• Non-dyable, stays the colour of the sheep (black sheep skin = black fur on the saddle)
  

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Took a close look and I don't think I saw anyone mention horse blankets, to go under saddles?

[Farmerbob 369]

Took a close look and I don't think I saw anyone mention horse blankets, to go under saddles?

Heh, look at the post above yours