Perspective From The New: Economy Suffers From Little Decay

[Archaegeo 136]

This is a great game, and on the Pristine and Release server was have had over a month now to see a new economy start to take shape.

But one thing I have noticed: Lack of decay is seriously hurting the economy.

Now I know a lot of people do not want decay. They do not want to replace items. But if there is no signal creating a demand for new and replacement items, then there is no need for creation of them, and this hurts the economy badly.

Especially hurt are the newbie players. They could be creating low QL locks to replace ones about to break, or low QL subcomponents or other items. Their QL 20 tools, appropriately priced, would have a place in the market.

As it is now, save up for the one or two producers of high QL and you never need buy again.

Even worse is cooking, put your food in a bucket of water and it keeps.

And wrapping of things in woodscraps.

BSB, FSB, magic chests.

Deed immunity.

So many ways to cheat decay that decay is really a non issue unless you just leave things laying on the ground.

Just my observation from the 38 days of a new economy and watching it quickly decline due to no outlet for low ql merchandise of anysort save bricks, mortar, and dirt.

[whykillme 1,621]

Food only last for a week.. thats not that bad.

Magic Chests cost alot of silver, thats why they're so usefull.

BSB/FSB are there for a reason, otherwise you constantly have to mine 50 iron everytime you have used it up, thats extremely irritating.

Why should i be forced to work hard and earn money to buy new tools if i enjoy playing the game without being in the economy part?

IMO, extremely bad suggestion

[Pashka 707]

Even high quality tools that get used will need to either be reimp'd or replaced.

[Jberg 3,070]

Or upgraded to a superior tool.

[FanofFish 5]

The reason players don't buy more tools is the same reason millionaires don't buy more mansions, they already have one. And if they're going to buy another it's because it does something the previous one didn't do.

[Evilvision 301]

Yes you do not want to go back to the days before Bsb's and Fsb's and high decay rate. Nothing like putting all your veggies in barrels in huge tubs and watching them decay away in a few days.

I still insist the food in the water barrel is a myth as I myself have never noticed meals lasting any longer than in my oven. I have tested hundreds of meals on the ground, in containers and in ovens and forges. It is always pretty much the same. Some meals start to decay in as little as 1 day and others last a week(all meals same ql). Damage ticks are just randomly thrown out there. Some items get hit and others dont.

As for tools I have burned through hundreds of COC and WOA off my shovels and picks alone. All skiller tools wear enchants very rapidly and even very highly imped tools do when heavily used. I dont really see a issue there. On your server with everyone so low of repair skill you guys have to be chewing off the QL on tools at pretty high rate. My repair skill is in the 70's and even if I get 2-3% Damage on a tool I pull .5 to 1 QL off high 80-90 ql items(varies from item to item being repaired).

High decay rate is just no fun having to keep everything on deed imped up every few days, its too much busy work. So no I hope we never see it again. We even had skill decay for years that after 2 weeks(I know at times it was just after a week for some of my skills) you would start losing .25 in each skill over 70. Go on two week vacation and then have to spend tons of hours to get that .25 back in your 90+ skills.

[hankrearden 144]

Having played before bsb/fsb were introduced, it really would not help the economy if they were gone because the seller would have the same issue of decay. Before the bsb timing was very important, if you made materials you had better be ready to use them soon. Get rid of bsb's and you have less trading (slower economy) because trades will be more difficult since the timing will have to work out just right for both parties.

If a new player wants to sell finished items there consumers will also need to be newer players. Or they can load up their bsb with bricks, mortar, planks etc to sell in bulk to the veteran players.

[ago 470]

People are usually not willing to pay the same prices for tools if they don't last. A high QL pickaxe is a luxury item. If it became a wear and tear item then people would probably stick with the cheap tools they can create themselves or the local blacksmith can create for a dime a dozen.

[EdibleSheep 7]

-1

[Torgrim 403]

The economy is pretty much ok, much better than most other games really. Game economies are always going to suffer in some way becuase they are games, it can never be as good as the real thing. Wurm economy is doing great, things in this game are actually fairly high priced adn things are hard enough to make so there is nobody selling top gear in bulk.

[Archaegeo 136]

This is the response I expected but it doesn't change the issue.

If items are not removed from the system the there is no replacement demand.

Maybe if items had a max ql and each time you repaired it that max lowered, that would be one thing, but as is you just imp it back up to where you need it.

If you die in combat, critters do not destroy or take your armor and items, so they are not being removed that way.

I love the crafting system and I love that life is a struggle and that you see results for your efforts, but that doesn't change e fact that the economy is a shadow of what it could be.

Eve probably has the best economy of any MMO. Your ship gets destroyed, some items survive, others get taken and you have to replace them.

Right now I've had the same shovel since day 1 (post newbie shovel) and its rare, so I never see wher I will need a new shovel.

It the same thing with all my other items too.

There is no real drain in the system right now.

[whykillme 1,621]

I'm pretty sure me and many others don't want to remake items everytime they take some damage because some random ******** wants to earn money. I'm not interested in the marketing part of wurm, i do it sometimes when i have nothing else to do, but that's only for short times.

Maybe low ql stuff should decay more, if it really is about item count.

Theres deed that have not been touched for a year or longer, and some stuff is still there.

On wild, i had off-deed frying pans, 600 of them, i went back 6 months later if not longer, and over half of them were still there, while they were average 20-30ql.. Maybe the average QL items should decay little faster to clean stuff up, but high ql stuff is high ql to last longer, not to decay faster aswell

Added edit:

The economy isn't even that bad at this moment. -- What about the enchants on every tool? Totally wasted? GOOD JOB!

If you expected this response, just don't post.

Edited January 20, 2013 by whykillme

[WesncIsMe 492]

Suggestions from people like these completely ruin the game, decay is bad enough as it is, leave it.

[fatboy 448]

bad bad post as obviously your not doing what most do. i for one burn up picks like zerobyte does corn in his kitchen. every few days when im mining i gotta take my tools to get reimped--renchanted, all of this over time leads to me stocking on pickaxes, but still same end result, There is decay on tools, when your grinding ya burnem up, then takem to a blacksmith or priest to get them improved again. Your suggestion kills off a great buisness all servers take advantage of. Also your suggest would kill the economy. Driving all values down to nothing, No one would really make any money at all. so -1 from me. Decay is fine the way it is. Mess with this you mess with all players and there gameplay. We dont want to replace all our tools once a week or month. We paid for them, we pay to improve them, We use them when we want too. We dont need a 2nd and 3rd job playing a game as this would certainly kill the fun factor, money factor, and my sanity.

[atazs 965]

it doesn't change the issue.

There is an issue?

[Ecrir 887]

Your example about your shovel, yes you won't need a new one, but the shovel you have will need to be imped back up to a good ql if you use it often. Unless you have the skill to do that yourself then you will have to find a blacksmith and pay him to do it. How is that any different from buying a new shovel from that blacksmith? Either way he earns money and when it comes to crafting tools most of the time goes into the improving stage, not the creation stage. This is the very important difference compared to the other game you mentioned, EvE. EvE has a creation economy. You take raw materials and use them to create new items, that's it. In Wurm that's only the first 1-5%, after that you need to do a big amount of imping to get the item to a good ql so that people will be interested in buying it. In EvE you just need to meet the skill requirements for items and you can make them just as well as more experienced players (but it will take you longer and require more raw materials than those experienced players need, so you often have a hard time actually making money until you have very high skills there). So what works for a creation economy doesn't always work well for an imping based economy too, but in EvE as a new player, at least form what I experienced, it's quite hard to compete with experienced players when crafting stuff and actually make a profit, in that sense it's no different from Wurm.

Your findings that new players will have trouble selling tools and such is true because most people don't need low ql tools unless they don't have a lot of money. Most will simply go for the higher ql tools that only the experienced players can make. But there's plenty of stuff where ql doesn't matter much, some of which you mentioned. When people are constructing buildings on deed then ql doesn't matter, so they will need bricks, mortar, planks, nails, etc etc. That's the hole in the market where new players can compete with experienced players because ql doesn't matter. All they need is a bulk storage bin to store their stuff in and then find some people who'd like to buy it.

Changing decay would on tools would not improve the situation for new players because they can't make good tools so nobody except other new players would be interested in them. Their ql 20 tools would never have a place in the market while people can make ql 50-70 and higher tools, especially once enchants come into play (enchanting low ql items has a much greater risk of failing, destroying the item or just waisting your time). If somebody loses his ql 70 tool to decay he's not going to buy a ql 20 tool, he's going to buy a new ql 70 tool. Tools simply isn't a market for new players unless they are willing to first put some time in to grind their skills up.

[Kadore 926]

The biggest flaw with your idea is it won't help you if I never participate in the economy by buying from other players, increasing decay will just make me create more of what I need gaining more skill and needing less interaction with other player's to buy from. While 70 ql tools are nice, at low skill they are not a must have, the biggest issue I see with the new server's economy is there is not a lot of money circulating atm, over time that will improve as will the economy.

[Laiwyn 188]

Right now I've had the same shovel since day 1 (post newbie shovel) and its rare, so I never see wher I will need a new shovel.

Rares aren't the end-all to tools. Believe me, I'd take a high WoA/high QL shovel over a non-enchanted rare shovel any day. .1s faster and, what, perhaps +1 ql to whatever you dig isn't that great imo. You'll get a new shovel someday. And anyway most of us have a couple of the same tool. I'm always buying new tools, can't have enough for me.

[Torgrim 403]

Arrchaegeo, if you can imp your shovel back to the same ql again yourself whart will actually be better because you have to make a new one instead of just imping the same one over and over? The economy will not be better because you have to replace your shovel unless you g buy a new one from someone else. But if you do actually buy a new one it means you can probably not imp it back yourself either so you would have to buy a new one or have someone else imp it back as it is with the current system as well...

So, bottom line is, there is no real problem here and nothing will be better by randomly loosing stuff or extreme decay except players will be annoyed.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Torgrim

[Wulfgar 1,132]

I need my tools imped back up at least once a month if I use them regularly, and I know some that wear down 90ql rope tools or spindles in a few days.

Weapons and shields also wear down fast.

There does not need to be any further decay than there already is. Quite a lot of decay when you use items (on enchants as well) and and lots of decay if you leave items lying around unused.

[GreenHero 72]

Decay? My 50ql tools have been ground down to 20ql in less than a weeks time, which means I now have to replace the entire set. Meaning I have to buy more.

No more decay.

Edit: My shovel lasted 2 days.

My casseroles decay pretty quickly, even when in barrel. My meats have now had an increase in decay, by god if all my weapons and items start decaying I'm going to come looking for you. <3

Edited January 20, 2013 by GreenHero

[Raybarg 442]

This is the response I expected but it doesn't change the issue.

If items are not removed from the system the there is no replacement demand.

Maybe if items had a max ql and each time you repaired it that max lowered, that would be one thing, but as is you just imp it back up to where you need it.

What is the point where you easily imp your tool back "where you need it". Youre showing subjective observation to explain global system.

Tools wear out fast when being used. You might be so new your timers are so horror slow you only get 20th done the amount I get done in same amount of time. So your subjective observation to draw such conclusions is not taking into account what you have not observed yet, but which affects the system alot.

[Raybarg 442]

Rares aren't the end-all to tools. Believe me, I'd take a high WoA/high QL shovel over a non-enchanted rare shovel any day. .1s faster and, what, perhaps +1 ql to whatever you dig isn't that great imo. You'll get a new shovel someday. And anyway most of us have a couple of the same tool. I'm always buying new tools, can't have enough for me.

So what about high woa/high QL rare shovel?

Theres no +1ql on raw material producing with rares (shovel, pickaxe, hatchet).

But youre right, that rare is just a fraction faster to a comparable normal shovel... and will wear out as fast as the normal... and lose enchants just like the normal one. Nothing special to see there, most rares are more bling and luxury than utility. I could list utility rares, but why would I do that? Look what rares go for 10 to 20s prices in auctions.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Raybarg

[GreenHero 72]

There is an 'edit' function.

[Protunia 735]

100%right the economy is more and more stagnant ever since decay reduction, bsbs, wrapping, chests etc....toooooooo many items never decay at all.

On top of that no more failing, easier creation, easier skilling, etc, etc....

So hes come up with this sac your stuff for more rares chance.

Merchant and Trader items never decay.

Why>??? why should there be all this no decay and items stay forever?

How does that help the games economy?

Edited January 20, 2013 by Protunia