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Lily

Has Multistory Gone Too Far?

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There is nothing wrong with the current building system as is.

The problem is peoples absurdly self righteous assumption that they shall not be forced to look upon buildings they don't like.

As if anyone gives a crap about what anyone finds "aesthetically pleasing" in building design when putting a building project together.

Next people will start demanding the ability to create enforceable Deed owners/resident associations with the ability to override peoples choices if they don't fit the visual and aesthetic landscape the association had in mind.

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Before you know it, griefer wars will erupt over entire islands because of disagreements over cherry trees!

No home-owners associations in Wurm Online please; that way lies madness!

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No home-owners associations in Wurm Online please; that way lies madness!

Next they will ask us to mow our lawns its ugly, and put our dogs in a leash, and that we have too many wild animals

so glad i live in the sticks of deli, they have to go through lavaspiders to get to me

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There are very few buildings that I have seen which fall into the range which I believe are insane. I respect the work that was put into those insame buildings, and would not ask that they be torn down.

However I do ask that the insanity be curbed. Even sandbox games need a theme, and there is no possible way that some of the possible constructions in Wurm can match the rest of the game. All they can possibly do is open the door to more insanity, weird bugs, and dilution of immersion.

Now if your game is entirely about user-designed content with no limits, like 2nd Life, then perhaps a no-limits construction system will work just fine.

But Wurm is not that. Wurm, no matter if it says it, or if it doesn't, is a low fantasy, low tech game. There have been some changes in the last few years that are starting to draw the game closer to high fantasy, but it's not there yet.

I really hope that Rolf chooses to exercise restraint and pull back a bit and remain a low fantasy game because there are a thousand other high fantasy games out there but very few low fantasy games, and Wurm is close to the top of the food chain for low fantasy.

If you play the game and don't even recognize why it is that Wurm feels different, then you are not going to understand this argument at all, and will continue complaining about wanting the "rights" to build stupid buildings.

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So if we don't have your exact beliefs, or share your love for wurm in the EXACT same way you do... We are wrong and don't understand the game.... riiighhhtttt.......

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So if we don't have your exact beliefs, or share your love for wurm in the EXACT same way you do... We are wrong and don't understand the game.... riiighhhtttt.......

Considering that I'm not the only person who thinks there is something wrong, it's pretty obvious that you are once again resorting to strawman arguments.

It doesn't have to be exactly as I say, but it's damn well completely stupid to allow mushroom houses and boat-stilt houses in a low fantasy setting. And no matter how you try to twist my arguments, Wurm is low fantasy.

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I think people should be able to be as creative as they like. You shouldn't try to censor others ability to create just because you don't like it. That's my personal opinion at least.

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don't know about 3-4, I have seen some nice makeup guard towers and keeps as we can build higher now, sadly I get it, but I don't agree with limitations, if done correctly you can make some awesome works. Some will always abuse a system, plain and simple.

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I think people should be able to be as creative as they like. You shouldn't try to censor others ability to create just because you don't like it. That's my personal opinion at least.

I think that people should be able to be as creative as they like, within whatever boundaries they are given by sane rules. And yes, sandboxes must have rules. The current building system simply allows insanity.

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I think that people should be able to be as creative as they like, within whatever boundaries they are given by sane rules. And yes, sandboxes must have rules. The current building system simply allows insanity.

There are already build rules in place, there are already boundaries. You don't want them to follow sane rules, you want them to follow your rules. Calling it following sane rules is just trying to mask the fact that you find the rules lacking.

But if you're so worried about immersion you can always start following the path of insanity and RP that the buildings are hallucinations. :P

*edit added smiley to make sure the last bit is seen as the joke it is *edit*

Edited by Roger Hellers

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I believe they now made it so you can't build a floor above unless you completed the floor below. It's a step in the right direction at least. No more ladder towers without walls..

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*sigh* I don't think that this "conversation" here leads to anything.....Wurm is the only sandbox of it's kind I mean like a real sandbox, most other "sandboxes" are no real sandboxes or are restricted in ways, that alot of players not like....(like full hardcore pvp with full loot, full destruction, thievery and so on.

And so....when you ask someone how they want a "sandbox" game, they probably think that EVERYTHING should be possible, TOTAL freedom and TOTAL CREATIVITY......but honestly guys....do you want second life here? do you want this game to be Minecraft? do you want it to be like Mortal Online? or even like Eve Online? Do you see a difference between freedom of wurm and freedom of other games?

If you want to keep a games beauty you need to stay within certain boundaries to keep the design, the overall feeling of it! I'm an artist in real life, I've studied games (like on an university) and I studied games on my own and I've seen alot of different things out there and I know rules for what we emphasize as BEAUTY. There are only slight differences between people actually......

so I really believe that those who say they want skyscrapers, who wants unrealistic business buildings and so on and physically unbelievable mushroom buildings....I think you have the wrong expectations on wurm as this sandbox sand is of a special consistency, made by Rolf, made from HIS view of how this game should be and I'm pretty sure he will add more restrictions soon anyway.....it just....began.

Edited by Miretta

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By preventing skyscrapers you also prevent buildings like that church with high towers.

If the freedom to build a big church or a wizard tower means others can build skyscrapers so be it.

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So, as the flaming lava spider chases you down, you run past the mushroom house and really say to yourself "hey! That's not even possible! How insane this world must be! After the lava spider kills me, I'll come back to life get the stuff off my dead body and head to the forums to complain about how unrealistic some buildings are!"

All the OP and small minority of supporters are saying is they want to tell other people how to play this game. It's no different then the insane HOA's that run around telling people they can't put certain decorations outside their house because it's not "tasteful".

Remember, it was Rolf himself who wanted 41 story wizard towers.

Farmerbob, the name of your character ruins my immersion. Please delete your account as I think it's insane anyone would self apply that name.

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*sigh* I don't think that this "conversation" here leads to anything.....Wurm is the only sandbox of it's kind I mean like a real sandbox, most other "sandboxes" are no real sandboxes or are restricted in ways, that alot of players not like....(like full hardcore pvp with full loot, full destruction, thievery and so on.

so I really believe that those who say they want skyscrapers, who wants unrealistic business buildings and so on and physically unbelievable mushroom buildings....I think you have the wrong expectations on wurm as this sandbox sand is of a special consistency, made by Rolf, made from HIS view of how this game should be and I'm pretty sure he will add more restrictions soon anyway.....it just....began.

So which is it? You say Wurm is unlike other sandboxes with restrictions that alot of players don't like but at the same want a restricion which alot of people already stated they don't want?

I'm an artist in real life, I've studied games (like on an university) and I studied games on my own and I've seen alot of different things out there and I know rules for what we emphasize as BEAUTY. There are only slight differences between people actually......

Don't take this personally but I am sorry but this is BS.

There are no rules for what everyone sees as beauty. Take a few random strangers from streets and I assure you they will have different opinions. Sure they will also have certain things two or more agree on but not everything not by a long shot.

A.e. every now and then a thread pops us to allow people to switch to old graphix because they found those prettier.

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It's hardly the height that is the real issue and the height that's currently allowed is needed for buildings like for example the church that ago mentioned.

The real issue is designs that people don't like, limiting the height to 4-5 is not going to stop people from spamming towers and ugly buildings all over the place if they really want to. Might as well limit the height to 2 if that's what you want to remove.

This is an MMO and not a single player sandbox, so you are going to run into stuff that you might consider ugly while others might like it. Complaining about it and trying to force everybody into only being able to build what you like, so deciding how they should play the game, is just a pointlessly selfish act.

Edited by Ecrir

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Ok lets remove all rules then.. Give all of us GM powers, let us do whatever we like. Oh, look I have 100 Weponsmithing skill, cause I wanted it! Oh, this game is so fun becuase I can do whatever I like!

A game like that would be fun for what, 10 minutes?

Seriously, we need rules. The game world needs laws of physics, rules for skills, rules for PvP. They don't have to be relalistic in RL terms, but they need to be there and they need to be restrictive in many ways or alot of people will get tired of the game very fast.

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It's hardly the height that is the real issue and the height that's currently allowed is needed for buildings like for example the church that ago mentioned.

The real issue is designs that people don't like, limiting the height to 4-5 is not going to stop people from spamming towers and ugly buildings all over the place if they really want to. Might as well limit the height to 2 if that's what you want to remove.

This is an MMO and not a single player sandbox, so you are going to run into stuff that you might consider ugly while others might like it. Complaining about it and trying to force everybody into only being able to build what you like, so deciding how they should play the game, is just a pointlessly selfish act.

Every game needs rules. Every game needs a theme, even if that theme is that there are no rules. If Rolf really wants insane buildings in his game, that's his prerogative, but trying to make the false accusation that rules to control content is somehow either pointless or selfish is completely inaccurate.

The very fact that some limits ALREADY exist mean that using rules to control how people play the game is valid. I believe these rules need adjustment to prevent any more insane houses from being built. Feel free to disagree with me on this but please do not falsely accuse me of selfishness. Anyone that actually watches Deli or Global PVE will know with zero doubt that I am not selfish.

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im sorry to tell you that the fact that you dont like something doesnt mean its wrong

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im sorry to tell you that the fact that you dont like something doesnt mean its wrong

I agree.

The fact that other people don't like the ideas of sane building limits doesn't mean that sane building limits are wrong.

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Honestly I see maybe 3 people here calling for change against everyone else. You might not like blocks for buildings but that's kinda what most buildings are like. Why don't you cry for greater variation in walls and structures to build, instead of looking to nerf down what we have?

I'd love to see some large iron gates, steeples, stackable filler-walls, drawbridges and portcullis gates, for instance.

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The current building system simply allows insanity.

Any system which allows as much creativity as this one will lend itself to"insanity" as you say...its the nature of the beast...and I like it that way. I dont agree with your version of "insanity" nor have I yet to meet anyone that does. In fact all of the people I know that were adamantly against the height and building system pre 1.0 have all changed ther minds and are now ardent proponents of it and are also looking forward to the higher building limits. If you really feel that the "insanity" has gone too far...perhaps a single player game would be more suited to your tastes. Sim City perhaps.

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So which is it? You say Wurm is unlike other sandboxes with restrictions that alot of players don't like but at the same want a restricion which alot of people already stated they don't want?

Don't take this personally but I am sorry but this is BS.

There are no rules for what everyone sees as beauty. Take a few random strangers from streets and I assure you they will have different opinions. Sure they will also have certain things two or more agree on but not everything not by a long shot.

A.e. every now and then a thread pops us to allow people to switch to old graphix because they found those prettier.

1. I thought I was clear, atleast thats why I made examples of what I meant, that I think that this discussion won't get a "clear" ending as exactly those things I mentioned are the ones people are debating EVERYTIME on every game...so in other words: It's nearly impossible to have a result that everyone is satisfied with and only rolf can decide how he actually makes changes.....

2. Well it doesn't help that you say sorry, but it's also ###### that there are no rules for aesthetics....have you ever heard of "design" "style" "leonardo da vinci" or "the golden rule" ? have you heard about proportions, body types, color scheme and so on? yeah...there is a LOT of variation....thats true, but there ARE actual rules of what humans find aesthetic.....

and about old graphics: yeah they wanted it mostly because this game made alot of changes in those last years and as long as they aren't finished, some things won't fit together(like low stone walls+tall stone walls+house walls and so on)

btw....over this topic I changed my opinion a few times about if we should make a rule change or not....so I'm kinda neutral, thats why i wanted to state facts this time instead of just my opinion....please tell me you have had ever anything done with graphics o.o

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In fact all of the people I know that were adamantly against the height and building system pre 1.0 have all changed ther minds and are now ardent proponents of it and are also looking forward to the higher building limits.

Well, you haven't met all of the pre-1.0 multifloor-criticizers then, because that isn't the reality.

Edited by EliasTheCrimson
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