Should Traders Be More Manageable?

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Narrow thinking again. If every village had an open trader there would be much more access by everyone, and there would be less drained from each. It would also help to make villages spread out. If you had to keep your trader open, you'd find a more remote spot to settle so you would not be as subject to drains on your trader. The only downside to having every village own a trader is for YOU, and like I said, Rolf should reimburse you for the cost of your trader before the change.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Vroomfondel

[fatboy 448]

dude, they would be drained, obviously you dont see beyond your idea. People will go village to village draining. Nothing rolf does will keep money on the traders, People will simply mass drain them all and all you have done is allowed every1 ingame that manages to farm them get rich and spent 0 doing so. Current system is hard to get a trader farmed, Also we spent 50s doing so , so we bought are right to do it, You sir, have not. You simply want a free money card. Well it wont happen. As i said before Save up 50s make yours public, tell me how long his ratios stays above 0 and how long he gets money, Youll find that he wony collect ever and always be emptied. :-P So, yea ur idea wont work, will never work, and current system works just fine, only doesnt work for you because you want wat we pay for 50s to do, for free. Sorry isnt happenin :-P

[Kegan 3,926]

I don't know about the rest of the people with traders but I spend almost all of my profit from them on stuff for the deed like buying tools and bulk items it all goes back out into the community anyway. Sure I get things in return but without this then the other players would have no means of earing cash to ever hope to get one without paying real money. If a player works hard and saves they can have one of their own and that is what they should strive for. We all have to remember that most players will not stay long enough to even earn their money back from buying the trader in the first place. Sure there are the few that sell coins now and then and I have too but it is not a lot. If there is a large amount of coins being solid it is not in the public eye and that part if it exists here will never change no matter what you do with the traders.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Kegan

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

This is more about the fact that the purpose of traders has been perverted for along time now. Not sure how it became this way exactly, but I would imagine that PVP rules were part of it. As Fatboy said, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Well, this has been broken for a long time. Unlike merchants, which are your personal property, traders are supposed to be working for the King, selling deeds and special items, and distributing money to all citizens by purchasing items. But a long time ago folks locked up the traders, essentially taking them hostage and forcing trade only with themselves. IRL the King would burn your village to the ground for taking one of his people hostage. But somehow those players convinced Rolf it worked best this way, although it really only works best for them. Well, we're out of Beta now, time to make traders work the way they were supposed to. It's not that I can't afford a merchant myself, they are pretty cheap to me really. It's more about making this game work for everybody. I'm sick and tired of trying to play a game and finding that the easiest way to get ahead is spend enough money. What has happened to having the skill to win at a game?

[joedobo 1,187]

If traders where to be removed, the money they used to distributed should be reallocated to something else. This distribution wealth is different then a refund of the ~50s (I payed 38s) people payed to get a trader. I would redistribute the money using two criteria. One is to greatly reduced deed buy costs and the other is to increase premium benefits to included funding a deed of minimum size.

I don't support them either (although I do love that my traders let me play for free). I've even made multiple suggestions on ways to change how funds are distributed.

[Martynas5 435]

Traders are good as they are now. It takes months to get 50 back. Setting public one will be useless ( always 0 rate, items refill like on other traders too -.-). Talking about those small deeds it's hard to find place to put trader and set bigger deed (near water i mean). I'm sure noone who have 1 trader would start selling coins becouse deed unkeep, premium, time and so on.

[Raybarg 442]

As i said before Save up 50s make yours public, tell me how long his ratios stays above 0 and how long he gets money, Youll find that he wony collect ever and always be emptied. :-P So, yea ur idea wont work, will never work, and current system works just fine, only doesnt work for you because you want wat we pay for 50s to do, for free. Sorry isnt happenin :-P

Well, uh, technically if youre placing public trader then you are supposed to be smart enough to put its tax rate at maximum. What this means is when someone not in the same village with the trader is doing proper draining to get every last iron coin from the trader, there is lots of purchases along the way, every purchase smaller than the other.

Now, if youre used to how you gain money out of a private trader, the case with the public trader is not same. The return value for every purchase has tax taken from it, that money goes to your village upkeep.

With a public trader in a traffic point it is possible to maintain quite a sizy deed without paying a penny... if you are active aswell, you or your villagers can still drain it without tax reduction from every purchase transaction.

Now that we have the CHOICE to pick one way or the other, get free upkeep funding and little bit of extra money from draining, or get money from draining. Me myself personally think that a private trader is sloppily utilized for the owners advantage when compared to a traffic point public trader. If trader is in desolate place, then it should be kept locked in so traveller drainers are not visiting it regularly to bork its economy for selfish gains. Traffic point trader would pay back the owner way more in form of upkeeps than it would ever be possible for locked up trader with no player trading interaction. Yes it is possible to boost the economy of trader by making deals with players to get them trader items cheaper than the trader purchase value, its profitable business and both sides win. When trader owner does this, it makes the "draining" part for purchaser easier because trader owner does it all.

With that all said, I see NO point in changing anything about traders.

[yarnevk 257]

+1 to Elias

"get your sticky fingers out of the kingdom till" indeed

Locking up traders for your own personal use prevents placing neighborhood traders open to all. Justifying it with excuses that the serfs can travel to the central market as they would mess up your milking machine? Asking for changes to enable further milking operations?

This is purely abuse of a game mechanic that was intended to promote offline player trades using a middle man that tracks local supply and demand giving a cut to the stall owner.

nerf the purchase price, raise the tax, but the king (GM) bashes down any enclosure preventing access beyond the mayor. Our alliance wants to put up a trader in our area so those little things someone does not need, that are not worth the hassle of in-person trades or travel, someone else may want to pay some coppers for, especially new players. We cant because there are three locked up traders in the area already used by once every two weeks alts. Meanwhile my bear furs pile up and rot, even though I could get irons for them if the system was used as intended, and then someone without bears can make a bed.

give back the 50s since the king is going to lose that money anyways, just give it back now, and take the private trader back. Or let the serfs do the work and make it legal to bash these trader houses down.

Edited January 12, 2013 by yarnevk

[Martynas5 435]

Place your own public trader if you want and don't tell that everyone must do this.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

-1 the system works great

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

The trader system as it is may work for those that have one, but it a perversion of what they were supposed to be. It is always a major joke that the intro for noobs tells them they can sell items to traders for ingame money, as we all know the few available will usually be drained. This has been borked for so long that those who are used to it and bought a trader will never want to see that changed. That does not mean it shouldn't be changed, for the betterment of the game for ALL players. Stop thinking of yourselves for a change and think about the future of the game.

[Kadore 926]

The trader system as it is may work for those that have one, but it a perversion of what they were supposed to be. It is always a major joke that the intro for noobs tells them they can sell items to traders for ingame money, as we all know the few available will usually be drained. This has been borked for so long that those who are used to it and bought a trader will never want to see that changed. That does not mean it shouldn't be changed, for the betterment of the game for ALL players. Stop thinking of yourselves for a change and think about the future of the game.

Last I checked every Starter deed has a trader if not two, spending your personal money to benefit the community is a grand gesture and done by a few but should not be forced upon those that wish to have personal trader. Your proposal that traders should be able to be accessed on any deed is a bigger pain in the ass than having to leave open roads through your deed if it gets declared a Highway, I get that you and quite a few other members of the community hate traders in their current state and feel those that have them are stealing from Rolf, last I checked it's his game and his decision, if you are so upset about this go to IRC and do the nut hugging some of the usual's do to get your p[personal agenda passed.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

No reason the KOS system would need to change, if you are KOS in one village you can go down the road to the next village. Only those that KOS everybody would have to be stopped. If you have managed to get on KOS everywhere, then that is your fault. As to Rolf, I believe he has tried several times to get folks to open up traders, that is part of why you have to buy back some items and not just sell to a trader to get a cash inflow. He's tried other things but those with traders whine extra loud when he tries to make the changes that are needed. And no, I won't try to get his attention on IRC, I'd just get shouted down and buried under many other lines of text. Here at least I can make a complete statement to get my point across.

And what I'm talking about is ending this 'personal trader' business. They are supposed to be the King's traders, not your personal one.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Vroomfondel

[Raybarg 442]

The trader system as it is may work for those that have one, but it a perversion of what they were supposed to be. It is always a major joke that the intro for noobs tells them they can sell items to traders for ingame money, as we all know the few available will usually be drained. This has been borked for so long that those who are used to it and bought a trader will never want to see that changed. That does not mean it shouldn't be changed, for the betterment of the game for ALL players. Stop thinking of yourselves for a change and think about the future of the game.

There is numerous observations I possess which show that such public trader indeed can provide the noob some money, up to a silver or even more. Its a joke? Your opinion. Your subjective opinion in whole matter does not make you neutral nor does it make you see the "better future of the game".

[Kadore 926]

No reason the KOS system would need to change, if you are KOS in one village you can go down the road to the next village. Only those that KOS everybody would have to be stopped. If you have managed to get on KOS everywhere, then that is your fault. As to Rolf, I believe he has tried several times to get folks to open up traders, that is part of why you have to buy back some items and not just sell to a trader to get a cash inflow. He's tried other things but those with traders whine extra loud when he tries to make the changes that are needed. And no, I won't try to get his attention on IRC, I'd just get shouted down and buried under many other lines of text. Here at least I can make a complete statement to get my point across.

And what I'm talking about is ending this 'personal trader' business. They are supposed to be the King's traders, not your personal one.

I said nothing about KoS, I was talking about the necessity to have your deed open ( or at least the tiles that the highway is on ) I'm assuming you'd insist the same with your grand crusade to have the Traders throw down their shackles of oppression.

[Protunia 735]

+/- 0

A different kind of trader update is required, one that kills them, reimburses the "owner", removes their function as personal money fountains and shifts their usage in favor of the larger community as opposed to mayors.

So this would mean new players would never have an option to buy in and get their own deeds going with out being some kind of slave.

I don't think so.

A lot of money people make from the traders gets sold for less than the shop and also gets spent buying the very high QL items and casts the upper level players create as well as hiring people to do things.

Basically if you change anything at all with traders you will kill many deeds and damper the economy completely as well as raise the cost of in game coin people are selling.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Protunia

[Martynas5 435]

Better make new type of traders -.-'

Cost a bit less and is public or they are only in starter town,

[Kediec 280]

Better make new type of traders -.-'

Cost a bit less and is public or they are only in starter town,

Spawn towns already have open public traders, and i think the cost of current traders are fine as it is a price that anyone who really wants to own one will either earn the money from others or just outright buy the silver to get one.

We already have Merchants that can be bought for 10s that are Sell only, so i see no reason to give traders an option to be set as sell only either. If you want a sell only trader than feel free to buy a Merchant.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Kediec

[Icelion 2]

The point of this i feel is to have traders that are only able to sell kingdom items. Perhaps have merchants that cannot buy at all but always have kingdom items available for a reduced investment. I may have misread and skipped half of the thread but It seems to be what he's getting at, and that's something i would endorse.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Icelion

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

So this would mean new players would never have an option to buy in and get their own deeds going with out being some kind of slave.

I don't think so.

A lot of money people make from the traders gets sold for less than the shop and also gets spent buying the very high QL items and casts the upper level players create as well as hiring people to do things.

Basically if you change anything at all with traders you will kill many deeds and damper the economy completely as well as raise the cost of in game coin people are selling.

Where do you get the idea new players would become some sort of slave? We've been talking about making the traders open to the public so everyone can get a chance to make coin from selling to them, instead of the mayor only. Seems to me that would stop slave work, not promote it. It MAY kill some deeds, because the mayor has been using his trader to play for free so long, but most villages would be just fine. The offline sale of silvers may get killed, but that does not affect the game itself, just the pocketbooks of those that have profited from it.

[fatboy 448]

Starter towns have traders, Go use them. if ya dont like it, go spend 50s. if ya still dont like it, Uninstall dont come back. Games not gonna cater to a fews wishs to gain money off of other peoples investments.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Starter towns have traders, Go use them. if ya dont like it, go spend 50s. if ya still dont like it, Uninstall dont come back. Games not gonna cater to a fews wishs to gain money off of other peoples investments.

We are trying to have a constructive conversation about how the current system can be made better. Anything you have had to say so far is tainted by the fact that you already own a trader and will always be unwilling to see any change. Get constructive with your comments please.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Vroomfondel

[fatboy 448]

i am giving constructive feedback, the system doesnt need changed, its not broken. There is traders in all start towns. Seems your determined to have public traders everywhere so u can try n make money off them since starter towns are dry. Well again i say tough luck. Buy one make it public and watch how ya gain 0. the traders buy and sell items (buy part if they have money). You all bitching that mayors are hiding our personal cash cows you froget 1 key part. WE still spend money on them. We have to keep spending our money to keep there ratio up to even earn any money ontop of that inital 50 silver to buy one. Im sorry just because you dont have one, does not give you the right to sit here and try and demand it all be given to ya. The day rolfs gives into demands like this one is the day alot of us quit. Just because things wont work the way u want them too doesnt mean you have to keep spaming a thread trying to force your idea onto others. This thread shouldnt have been started as there is nothing wrong with traders as it is. So far most of the thread agrees Except you Vroom. But before you post again, Have you bought a trader, do you own one?

[Kadore 926]

If the belief is Traders are taking money off Rolf's table, why not also disable buying Prem with silver?

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

i am giving constructive feedback, the system doesnt need changed, its not broken. There is traders in all start towns. Seems your determined to have public traders everywhere so u can try n make money off them since starter towns are dry. Well again i say tough luck. Buy one make it public and watch how ya gain 0. the traders buy and sell items (buy part if they have money). You all bitching that mayors are hiding our personal cash cows you froget 1 key part. WE still spend money on them. We have to keep spending our money to keep there ratio up to even earn any money ontop of that inital 50 silver to buy one. Im sorry just because you dont have one, does not give you the right to sit here and try and demand it all be given to ya. The day rolfs gives into demands like this one is the day alot of us quit. Just because things wont work the way u want them too doesnt mean you have to keep spaming a thread trying to force your idea onto others. This thread shouldnt have been started as there is nothing wrong with traders as it is. So far most of the thread agrees Except you Vroom. But before you post again, Have you bought a trader, do you own one?

You really don't understand who I am. I have been playing for years, have a large deed, and make plenty of silver. In fact, I have only paid RL money for 10 months prem time in the last 2 years. I've never had a trader and don't need one. I am taking up the cause for new players, so they get a better chance to get ahead in the game, in spite of established players like yourself.

As to you having to spend money to get your trader to have the correct ratio, are you spending RL money or ingame silvers? I"ve heard many a player with traders brag how they have mastered the ratio and haven't spent a dime of RL money in years.

The trader used to come with every size 10 or bigger village. When Rolf changed deeds to make them cheaper, he also changed the traders from free with the village to something you had to pay for. This was because the trader's original purpose had already been perverted. Many screamed then why did they have to pay for a trader now, but Rolf listened to his own special group. That special group has been the cause of most of the perversions in this game and Rolf needs to realize he shouldn't listen to them so much. Their suggestions have also caused what is now Chaos and the Epic servers. Count on any day how many threads you see complaining how those servers are doing.

Traders may work well as is for those that have them, but as I keep trying to get you to realize (unsuccessfully so far), it takes away from the rest of the playerbase the way they are being used now. It was a mistake to have folks pay for them separately from the village itself, and it's time to correct that mistake. Yes, many will be upset, most any big change does, and some will likely ragequit, but that does not mean the change isn't necessary. Besides, there are more players coming in every day to replace them now, so Rolf should not let himself be afraid of that.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Vroomfondel