Some Pvp Changes To Chaos

[Finnishpkt 21]

I bet there's a lot of random freedom players voting no, just because they don't like pvp.. That needs to be considered when the results are in.

[Redd 4,281]

I dont think its a matter of hard coding.. its a matter of Rolf a) not wanting to spent the time and b ) I dont think he wants to make Chaos too good because it might harm Epic (even though it wont because its an entirely different game!).

Rolf i think its pretty apparent Chaos needs and wants full PvP - no one can deney that. However i think if you want a more perminent long lasting fix which will finally make the server a 100% functioning PvP server, we need some form of Kingdoms on Chaos.

That is of course up to you, you could do a quick, half arsed job which will make Chaos meh and probably have problems again a year down the line, or actually put the time in to fix the place at last.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Redd

[Amikron 27]

To any Freedomers (or Care bears as some of the jobbers like to call us) who are voting no, Why exactly? I might not PVP but Wild is one of the last bits of the "old world" we have left.

My wild map experience may be limited to small skirmishes, running some people to the WL and hiding out on a mountain mining ore to smuggle back home, but that doesn't mean that I don't get why people have always enjoyed it. I used to feel Rolf catered way too much to the PVP crowd (and granted sometimes he did put them first over the bigger PVE crowd) but it seems to have gone too far in the opposite way now. Wild may not be the busiest place but I can't see not at least TRYING to give it some of the former glory it once held.

I understand it would take a lot of work to do what some of the PVP folk are suggesting (I especially like the concept of PMKs being on wild) but I personally consider it worth it. Wild deserves at least one good last shot in the arm (or ten) before we give up on it.

And yes, I said Wild. It may be called Chaos now, but it will always be Wild to me.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Amikron

[Cragvis 13]

A pvp server should be a PVP server. there should be no rules. There are PLENTY of other servers to join if you dont want full pvp.

[silakka 2,360]

A pvp server should be a PVP server. there should be no rules. There are PLENTY of other servers to join if you dont want full pvp.

exactly.

or just make full pvp / half pvp / peaceful

[Mattown 349]

i think people that have never played chaos or even epic for that matter shouldn't really be voting here, or allowed to because it has literally nothing to do with them.. but anyway i can see the poll is (obviously) going in the right direction =)

[DonAngelo 263]

Some Lousy "pvp Fix" wont do any good at all! Just enabling bashing/catapulting will mess up everything even more then it is now. New ppl and their places will just get smashed down in a matter of weeks, which, im sure, will force most of them just to leave. And well, Excuuuse me, most of all i want to see population Growing on Chaos. Not deserted server with 30 ppl doing pewpew..

I dont see how "pvp" could work without KINGDOMS or at least Tower influence. If not those two, none "fix" will work.

I'm getting some popcorn and waiting to see this disaster

Edited January 11, 2013 by DonAngelo

[Gavin 971]

I can't really understand the mindset some have where they think new players should be able to survive on their own on Wild come from, it has always been aimed at group gameplay, or at the least, setting up your one-person deed within watch of a larger deed so they can look after you.

... BUT if it is really deemed to be a problem, why not make it so that if enemy players enter local of a allied deed- it is broadcasted into alliance chat.

Something like <Spirit Templar> Nadroj, Emoo, Demondan spotted at Sparta!

I personally don't think this is necesarry and would even be against it if we could get PvP without it, but if it's required it would certainly give smaller deeds more protection even if they had noone online, allied towns can still tell what's going on.

[lordshaggy 4]

Its very clear by all the votes people WANT BETTER PVP ON WILD. It seems well worth it at this point to spend some time and effort on this server.

We need Kingdoms back in some way, be it the old ones or PMK's.

We need towers to mean something again. Wiz kill them or give us the tower caping code that's already in place on other servers.

Fix the bugs that will kill PVP (attacking through house walls) ect.

We don't need a map or skills reset. That is and always has been a band aid, not a fix. And we sure don't need epic skill curve, that's what epic is for.

I don't agree with the siege camp idea, but if it was to be used the timer would have be more like an hr or so. There is just no way on earth your going to get a raiding force defending a camp for a full 24 hrs before they can even start the raid.

I think this stuff would at the very least get us going in the right direction. This cant be some "full pvp on" switch flipped. Time and effort must be taken to make things work right, even if that means Wild doesn't see this update for months.

[hankrearden 144]

New maps are band-aids, you look at most new servers and maps, and what happens? A large opening, bit spike, and a decline afterwards. They like the new fresh server smell, play for it a few weeks, and realize it's just the same game. Don't waste your time with a new map, I promise you 110% that will not fix any the issues of Wild at all, whatsoever. I am sure already Pristine is in a decline, and Celebration.

I really have to disagree with Postes here on this point. You cant really compare a new pvp map with a new pve map. A new pve map attracts players yes, but the newness is the ONLY thing the map offers, as there is many other pve maps to go back too. A new pvp would offer the new map PLUS pvp for those who have the stomach for it. At least the people who find they have a taste for wurm pvp will stay.

There is one issue that a new map will fix, and that is population. As you know, a pvp server needs a certian critical mass of players to thrive and avoid that 'feeling of stagnation'. A good influx of players at the beginning of the map will actually make the pvp atmosphere more vibrant, making it more likely that enough players will stick around. If you are a Keynsian, think of it as stimulus but with players instead of money.

At the time of this post there are ~175 players on the epic cluster. Keep in mind that the entire epic cluster is about 15% smaller (on account of affliction) than the chaos server, and provides far more effecient ocean travel, with maybe the exception of NW Desertion to NE Serentiy. You can imagine how a very small population on epic would cause a downward spiral in the population, while a large population can lead to an even larger population.

tldr: go play minecraft you lazy bum

[ZarmaZarma 192]

I'm glad to see the polls are overwhelmingly in favor of reviving PvP on Wild. However it may manifest, I'm sure it will be an improvement.

I think people are asking for too much at the moment. Just taking away the restrictions on raiding would be a great boon to Wild. It will get the blood of our server flowing again. Wild has always been a server that is kept alive by war and strife, and with the risk of enemies at the gate once again prevalent, old and new names alike will have a reason to fight.

Optimally we would have PMK's... I've heard that there is difficulty in this matter, but if they can be added, I believe that they would solve many of the server's current problems.

I would rather not have a new map.

I believe that Wild currently has enough willing fighters to engender PvP, especially with the activity I've seen recently. Currently there are a lot of antsy players that want to pvp, but often cannot do to deed restrictions. If those are removed, I think we'll see a serious revival on Wild.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ZarmaZarma

[Shalbriri 698]

Polls mean nothing (just look at the numbers, vastly higher than peak Chaos player counts) and everyone has an agenda - which is why I won't state what I think might work.

Good luck with whatever you try, Rolf - just don't do it half assed. Simply flipping on the "catapulting" switch will be a nail in the coffin unless you are going to fix the bigger issues.

EDIT: You are also missing the fact there is FULL PVP on Chaos server. Right now. Loot, affinities, skill loss, etc. The "pvp changes to Chaos" title topic is a bit of a misnomer when the main issue people are griping about is a bigger situation than just pvp.

[Kegan 3,926]

My personal opinion is that it will never be any better then it is. If you allow full pvp then the few that do go over will leave soon after I say do what ever they think is good but when it fails to change anything then just kill it and move on. We all have things in our past that were "the best times" but we also know we cant go back. I mean why was it moved and changed to begin with because the old way was not working

[Derp 310]

Like Duce said, spending a few seconds to allow catapulting again and that being the only change would be awful. Though it would be a very tempting 'fix' to all the people moaning. Pretty much, wild should be returned to the way it was in its peak time (that includes all kingdoms, champs, etc), or leave it alone in the moderately busy way it is now...

Edited January 11, 2013 by Derp

[Nadroj 3,554]

I'd like to thank all of those people who are voting yes to this who don't live on chaos because you can see that even if its not your thing, we PvPers on this cluster deserve a proper pvp server. So thanks guys

Edited January 11, 2013 by Nadroj

[atazs 965]

My personal opinion is that it will never be any better then it is. If you allow full pvp then the few that do go over will leave soon after I say do what ever they think is good but when it fails to change anything then just kill it and move on. We all have things in our past that were "the best times" but we also know we cant go back. I mean why was it moved and changed to begin with because the old way was not working

While i agree in some way, there should be at least one proper pvp server on the freedom cluster.

[ZarmaZarma 192]

Polls mean nothing (just look at the numbers, vastly higher than peak Chaos player counts) and everyone has an agenda - which is why I won't state what I think might work.

Because peak players is the same thing as how many people play on the server, lol. "Polls mean nothing" sounds like a desperate response from someone who has their own interest at risk, to me. The fact of the matter is that, whether on Chaos or otherwise, the vast majority of the players has just decided that they want PvP reinstated on our server. These conversations are held locally, too, in Kingdom chat; they always turn out the same way. People want PvP back. I will argue eternally for the benfits it offers.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ZarmaZarma

[Redd 4,281]

Oh also. Can the under 20fs no affinity or rank is gained be removed with this?

I think its silly that you will not even get an affinity from killing peoples spy alts which makes alts even more of a common thing as you will lose nothing and the enemy will gain nothing...

[Lancelot 765]

The polls show, or at least are an indication that the majority of the player base want chaos returned to some or all of what it was before the change. Regardless of what server they are playing on. It is a significant pointer to what is wanted.

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

Oh also. Can the under 20fs no affinity or rank is gained be removed with this?

I think its silly that you will not even get an affinity from killing peoples spy alts which makes alts even more of a common thing as you will lose nothing and the enemy will gain nothing...

True but at the same time, it's how on my first week of playing chaos Tonygreen and Zarma took mine. Was pretty shitty that the first player I ever saw in wurm ganked me for an affinity I had no clue I had. Some protection for newly made characters is needed. But you are right it can't be indefinite.

Maybe change it to a time based thing, after 1-2 weeks the protection is removed?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Nomadikhan

[snakegal 177]

I will argue eternally for the benfits it offers.

The only benefit i see happening is you guys being able to grind every deed you feel like to a pulp and loot everything in sight, just because you haven't had real raiding for almost a year.

I am one of the people that voted no, and unless the changes are made more clear by rolf it will probably stay there.

[Shalbriri 698]

For the life of me I simply cannot understand why a person simply stating "no quick fixes please" is demonized for "pushing an agenda" when they have clearly stated 1000 times over they don't really care what the outcome is. Then again, it also shows me why people have traditionally avoided and often even detested the Wild playerbase in the past.

Changes come to Chaos that I don't like, I know how to get off the server. Much like a movie theatre, if I don't like the afternoon film being shown, I'll leave.

You want to read more into that, knock yourself out, but it's speaking volumes about who actually has a horse in a proverbial race here, don't you think?

[hankrearden 144]

True but at the same time, it's how on my first week of playing chaos Tonygreen and Zarma took mine. Was pretty shitty that the first player I ever saw in wurm ganked me for an affinity I had no clue I had. Some protection for newly made characters is needed. But you are right it can't be indefinite.

Maybe change it to a time based thing, after 1-2 weeks the protection is removed?

i think not allowing FTP would be enough protection against spies, though i am sure there will still be plenty. i can only imagine how bad it is right now.

[Nadroj 3,554]

For the life of me I simply cannot understand why a person simply stating "no quick fixes please" is demonized for "pushing an agenda" when they have clearly stated 1000 times over they don't really care what the outcome is. Then again, it also shows me why people have traditionally avoided and often even detested the Wild playerbase in the past.

Changes come to Chaos that I don't like, I know how to get off the server. Much like a movie theatre, if I don't like the afternoon film being shown, I'll leave.

You want to read more into that, knock yourself out, but it's speaking volumes about who actually has a horse in a proverbial race here, don't you think?

You are the one who stated that people are pushing an agenda. Then you take a huge amount of offence to someone saying it back to you? You yourself said EVERYONE has their own agenda. Are you not one of everyone?

Sorry Duce we didn't realise that you were some kind of exception to your own rules....

Besides that point zarma is entirely right. Your offhand way of trying to discredit the entire poll does make it seem that way.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Nadroj

[Redd 4,281]

I think Duce may have realised that the mystic people he said existed who didnt want changes to Chaos, do, infact not exist in the large quantity he said there was.

Poll easly shows that 85% of the community want Chaos fixed in a manner that more PvP will exist there. So i cant wait to see that happen!