Some Pvp Changes To Chaos

[Rolf 3,563]

Hi,

it's apparent to most old players that the Chaos server isn't really functioning in its current state. It's in a limbo where you can declare war and drain the other settlements but you can't destroy fences or walls so preventing draining is ridiculously easy. There is also a widespread spy situation.

This situation is very annoying for the players who joined the server years ago for the PvP.

A historical note: Since the server was isolated and in decline after the release of Epic we decided to join it to the freedom cluster. Everyone was set to the same kingdom and PvP removed. We reinstated PvP in the form we have today. Which has proven to be a too weak compromise.

Unless we are going to let this state of frustration go on, I think we have to choose a way. More PvP or remove it totally. More PvP will mean alliance PvP and many restrictions will be removed. I think the best outcome will be that unallied deeds will be possible to raid and everyone outside your alliance will be considered an enemy.

I like many others do consider Chaos to be primarily a PvP server - it is flagged as such in the database.

I have added a poll. We'll see what the result is. Please comment.

[warrior 455]

Got to have at least one PvP server connected to the freedom cluster Imo

I voted yes

[Elen 1,013]

Encouraging pvp is an important aspect so what needs to be looked at is how to provide reasons to go out killing. Draining was always a good reason.

You might also do well to add the curve of epic skill function and gain rates, to encourage the freedom cluster to give it a shot without having to wipe skills by going to epic.

You could argue its a risk vs reward system for increased skillgains on pvp servers.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Elen

[Wulfgar 1,115]

You might also do well to add the curve of epic skill function and gain rates, to encourage the freedom cluster to give it a shot without having to wipe skills by going to epic.

God no, keep that away forever from this Freedom cluster. There is already a risk vs reward system, its called affinities and some have more than 100.

I voted Yes. It makes no sense to keep Chaos in its current state and I think old time Wilders should have more influence over the server's future than the carebears that invaded after Wild joined the Freedom cluster and became Chaos.

[Amikron 27]

Encouraging pvp is an important aspect so what needs to be looked at is how to provide reasons to go out killing. Draining was always a good reason.

You might also do well to add the curve of epic skill function and gain rates, to encourage the freedom cluster to give it a shot without having to wipe skills by going to epic.

You could argue its a risk vs reward system for increased skillgains on pvp servers.

-1000 to this.

I voted Yes. It makes no sense to keep Chaos in its current state and I think old time Wilders should have more influence over the server's future than the carebears that invaded after Wild joined the Freedom cluster and became Chaos.

So you're saying the almost 80 if you're lucky player count on wild are all "care bears"? (please stop using that dumb term by the way, makes you look childish.)

Edited January 10, 2013 by Amikron

[Amikron 27]

.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Amikron

[atazs 965]

Encouraging pvp is an important aspect so what needs to be looked at is how to provide reasons to go out killing. Draining was always a good reason.

You might also do well to add the curve of epic skill function and gain rates, to encourage the freedom cluster to give it a shot without having to wipe skills by going to epic.

You could argue its a risk vs reward system for increased skillgains on pvp servers

There is a god damn reason why those who are on chaos are not on epic. Almost all of us tried it out at one point and did not like it.

We do not want increased skillgains or anything thats on epic

Back on topic: Chaos needs to have PvP back. When it was dumbed down to the current state many players came over because they tought that it will be permanent. Now those players who like the current state and came to live on chaos now dont want it to change. But the thing is all this was forced down on us. Nobody asked to dumb down chaos so we did not have any say in it. Those who voted no are those who dont want their deed raided. Well then you have 6 other servers to move to OR join a damn deed thats well established. Nobody forces you to live on your own deed if you dont want to get raided. Also there are going to be people voting no from epic because they are scared that it will die out. it should.

OR

Add another server the size of GV or even smaller where the current chaos mechanics aka no raiding are in, so that those who dont want raiding but want pvp can play there.

But PvP without raiding is pretty stupid.

Edited January 10, 2013 by atazs

[Pryath 181]

Yes, yes and thrice yes!

[Maximustehgreat 353]

I would like to see the current chaos map scrapped, and a fresh map be generated with kvk, JK and BL like it used to be.

A fresh map will bring a new sense of adventure.

[Elen 1,013]

fresh map would be nice

[atazs 965]

I would like to see the current chaos map scrapped, and a fresh map be generated with kvk, JK and BL like it used to be.

A fresh map will bring a new sense of adventure.

As long as its the same size and notch makes it(wont happen) and we can bring over everything then +1

I dont want the only PvP server on freedom to be a rolf map

Edited January 10, 2013 by atazs

[Pryath 181]

...on the subject of fresh map, I'd be in favour purely from a selfish point of view, but I'd guess many other folks would resist that with all their being.

[Elen 1,013]

...on the subject of fresh map, I'd be in favour purely from a selfish point of view, but I'd guess many other folks would resist that with all their being.

Some people will always resist. What matters in the end is what is best for the longterm community.

....edited for overuse of the term 'of course'

Edited January 10, 2013 by Elen

[Busted 289]

Yes! Always yes. I just returned to Wild/Chaos with my carebear friends kicking and screaming and despite some horrific murders taking place it's way more exciting than the profitable snoozefest that is the violence free other freedom Islands. Alliance / village warfare just seems much more interesting than a simple two or three side kingdom vs kingdom affair. It gives a much larger scope for interesting stories to develop. Yes, there will be griefing and smaller deeds lacking in experience will no doubt get picked on and it would be hard for new people to prosper without some sort timed deed immunity but that's what diplomacy is for, right?

[Redd 4,281]

Rolf,

I would like to start in saying that this is a brilliant start towards fixing Chaos. I do however think that we need to take a different course of action.

Firstly I would like to talk about the poll you have made. This will not be accurate at all. My reasons for believing this is because there are freedom and epic players who are furiously against adding/improving PvP to Chaos either because they want to maliciously harm Chaos' PvP community - maybe because they don't like PvP or simply because a chaos PvPer has wronged them, or that an epic player does not want Chaos harming the player base on their server. Because of those two reasons I believe the poll you have created will not show you the correct statistics. What I suggest is some form of way to link ingame chars on Chaos with the poll here and do it that way - which will also allow the "non vocal community" the chance to vote, along with those who do not have a forum account.

The second part of my post will address what the server needs for PvP. I do not believe a simple "flick of the switch" for full PvP/raiding will fix the server, and I actually believe that adding raiding will harm the server more then help it IF kingdoms are not implemented. Kingdoms or player made kingdoms MUST be added in order to secure a good future for Chaos - no quick fix will do this. My reasons for adding kingdoms is fundamentally simple. PvP needs a strong community, goals, and purpose, hardly none of which occur with just alliances. We need kingdoms to PvP and if chaos does not have kingdoms I think the server will fall to pieces again after the raiders have had their fun with pillaging.

I believe that with the introduction of kingdoms it will help the singular players/villages who have not picked the two traditional alliances on chaos to be able to survive in a raiding/full PvP environment. Without such I can see all the new players we have gained over the last year or so will either leave the server or quit.

Rolf, two times you have tried to do these "quick fixes" and both times they have failed. Please, PLEASE do a good thorough fix to the server so many of us love an then leave us well alone.

I hope this has helped. Otherwise I voted yes - Chaos needs full PvP even without kingdoms.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Redd

[Sharkin 1,319]

I hope this vote ends well. Freedomers who never have or will set foot on chaos can vote us down. Even if you don't like pvp, please think about us. I have friends who have spent years grinding skills and worked on their deeds, it would all be for nothing.

[Maxthx 641]

Firstly I would like to talk about the poll you have made. This will not be accurate at all. My reasons for believing this is because there are freedom and epic players who are furiously against adding/improving PvP to Chaos either because they want to maliciously harm Chaos' PvP community - maybe because they don't like PvP or simply because a chaos PvPer has wronged them, or that an epic player does not want Chaos harming the player base on their server. Because of those two reasons I believe the poll you have created will not show you the correct statistics. What I suggest is some form of way to link ingame chars on Chaos with the poll here and do it that way - which will also allow the "non vocal community" the chance to vote, along with those who do not have a forum account.

I just wanted to say, when I first saw this post I thought "I probably shouldn't vote" because I do not play on Chaos or the Freedom Cluster. I originally started on Chaos when it was Wild and moved to Epic when it launched. However, I have been following your discussions on the current PvP situation in Chaos and I think drastic change is needed for your enjoyment of the game. So I voted Yes, because that was overwhelmingly the opinion I detected from the forum members talking about it. I wanted to help you get the server you have chosen to play on fixed in a way that would allow for your enjoyment in the future. If you are offended by the fact that I voted on a poll in the City Hall section that relates to a server I do not play on, then I apologize and hope that my Yes vote does not drastically alter the outcome of this poll.

[Iulianx 90]

Whatever you do, do not do a map reset on Wild, its the last decent map Wurm has.

[Elen 1,013]

Have faith sharkin ~ I kinda get the vibe that this vote is mostly symbolic before the change is made.

[Gaeron 551]

The basics should be very simple

If in an alliance then everyone in the alliance is on your side, everyone else is an enemy

If not in alliance but in a village then everyone in your village is on your side, everyone else is an enemy

if not in a village then everyone else is your enemy.

If someone is an enemy then they are fair game

If something is owned by an enemy then it is fair game

So long as you can correctly identify enemies then all else is gravy

[Bladedancer 20]

The basics should be very simple

If in an alliance then everyone in the alliance is on your side, everyone else is an enemy

If not in alliance but in a village then everyone in your village is on your side, everyone else is an enemy

if not in a village then everyone else is your enemy.

If someone is an enemy then they are fair game

If something is owned by an enemy then it is fair game

So long as you can correctly identify enemies then all else is gravy

This

gravy

And this.

[Rolf 3,563]

Rolf,

I would like to start in saying that this is a brilliant start towards fixing Chaos. I do however think that we need to take a different course of action.

Firstly I would like to talk about the poll you have made. This will not be accurate at all. My reasons for believing this is because there are freedom and epic players who are furiously against adding/improving PvP to Chaos either because they want to maliciously harm Chaos' PvP community - maybe because they don't like PvP or simply because a chaos PvPer has wronged them, or that an epic player does not want Chaos harming the player base on their server. Because of those two reasons I believe the poll you have created will not show you the correct statistics. What I suggest is some form of way to link ingame chars on Chaos with the poll here and do it that way - which will also allow the "non vocal community" the chance to vote, along with those who do not have a forum account.

The second part of my post will address what the server needs for PvP. I do not believe a simple "flick of the switch" for full PvP/raiding will fix the server, and I actually believe that adding raiding will harm the server more then help it IF kingdoms are not implemented. Kingdoms or player made kingdoms MUST be added in order to secure a good future for Chaos - no quick fix will do this. My reasons for adding kingdoms is fundamentally simple. PvP needs a strong community, goals, and purpose, hardly none of which occur with just alliances. We need kingdoms to PvP and if chaos does not have kingdoms I think the server will fall to pieces again after the raiders have had their fun with pillaging.

I believe that with the introduction of kingdoms it will help the singular players/villages who have not picked the two traditional alliances on chaos to be able to survive in a raiding/full PvP environment. Without such I can see all the new players we have gained over the last year or so will either leave the server or quit.

Rolf, two times you have tried to do these "quick fixes" and both times they have failed. Please, PLEASE do a good thorough fix to the server so many of us love an then leave us well alone.

I hope this has helped. Otherwise I voted yes - Chaos needs full PvP even without kingdoms.

Redd do you realize that you are asking me to spend weeks development time on getting Chaos? Because that's what a "thorough" fix means with new systems. I don't think that is a prioritization that most of the other players agree with.

[Lancelot 765]

A good workout to current issues with Chaos, voted Yes.

[Elen 1,013]

while we are making changes can we get /who removed for chaos and the server pop graphs delays by an hour ?

[Rolf 3,563]

The basics should be very simple

If in an alliance then everyone in the alliance is on your side, everyone else is an enemy

If not in alliance but in a village then everyone in your village is on your side, everyone else is an enemy

if not in a village then everyone else is your enemy.

If someone is an enemy then they are fair game

If something is owned by an enemy then it is fair game

So long as you can correctly identify enemies then all else is gravy

You won't be able to correctly identify enemies except for red outline for an indetermined time.

I think this is the only system that will work though in case we escalate PvP.