New Enclosure Rule Makes All Out Of Deed Enclosures Impossible...

[Archaegeo 136]

Due to an issue with roofs or no roofs and a fence getting destroyed on a new server, the enclosure rules for freedom servers was changed.

However, the way it is written, it is impossible to meet.

Here is the verbiage:

Breaking fences.

It is illegal to break any fence that does not belong to you AND is also a part of an enclosure.

Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area, composed of fences (excluding hedges and woven fences), gates or walls, and attached to or surrounding a house with at least completed bottom level walls. The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area.

The last sentence is the problem.

It is impossible to see all sides of a house from ALL parts of the fencings enclosing it. Presumably, once part of the fencing will be the front side of the house, or in front of the front side of the house. If you are standing in front of the house, you cannot see the back side of the hose to know its wall is complete.

Poorly rewritten.

[camberme 26]

I personally didn't read the rule as you have to be able to see ALL the walls, because this would be impossible, I read that you have to be able to see from the left side, the left walls, from the right side, the right walls. My issue with the rule is, what if you want say two different "houses" on an encolsure, can you from the right side see the right house... and from the left side see the left house, is that good enough? or from the left side, do you have to also see the right house... (example in 2d... house H, and wall X... X H H X)

[Anders 30]

It doesn't say anything about seeing ALL sides of the house. You just need to be able to see the house from each part of the fence.

[Archaegeo 136]

The rules need to be black and white for GM's.

The sentence says "The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area."

Not some, but "The bottom level walls..visable from ALL parts of the fencing..."

This will end up with GM's wasting time because rule lawyers will take it to mean since I cant see all 4 sides from all sections of fenceing, i can destroy that section, and then its an incomplete enclosure.

[guitarxe 50]

So... do we need to have a completed roof or no?

[Archaegeo 136]

By reading the new rules, no.

[tealc 149]

That is our intention, You have to be able to see the ground floor level of any completed house from all parts of the enclosure perimeter. If your enclosure is so big that you cannot see at least 1 completed house then you should really invest in a deed. The enclosure rules are intended to aid new or non premium players not long term players who wish to claim excessive amounts of land.

[Archaegeo 136]

Tealc,

Thanks for the response, but can you clarify, do I have to see a structure, or do i have to be able to see all four walls of the structure, or (impossibly) do i have to be able to see all 4 walls of a structure from each fence section. The rule is vaguely written.

I believe the intent is to see a structure from all fence sections, and to be able to see all four walls of that structure by moving around the fence?

[tealc 149]

You should be able to see all four walls of a structure by moving around the enclosure perimeter. You may even be able to see through windows or change elevation to see that the structure is complete.

All we are looking for is that a completed structure is visible from the entire perimeter of the enclosure, it can be multiple completed structures. Checking if a structure is complete is something the players will have to work out for themselves.

[Jovan 20]

so... gate houses on all 4 corners and every 10 sections or so to block deeding over the walls, and several completed out buildings so that at least one can be seen from every area. that doesn't sound so bad.

dont get me wrong, i have 3 premium characters holding the papers on 3 deeds. i believe very strongly in the deed it or lose it philosophy. but sometimes these "nature preserves" that people put down to protect an area are there for a reason. a newb who never talks in local to announce his intentions and makes a mess/cuts mass trees without replanting = griefer to most people.

[Archaegeo 136]

Tealc,

Again, excellent clarification. Recommend adding your sentence "You should be able to see all four walls of a structure by moving around the enclosure perimeter" to the Enclosure rule would be excellent!

[Sarcaticous 338]

Due to an issue with roofs or no roofs and a fence getting destroyed on a new server, the enclosure rules for freedom servers was changed.

However, the way it is written, it is impossible to meet.

Here is the verbiage:

Breaking fences.

It is illegal to break any fence that does not belong to you AND is also a part of an enclosure.

Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area, composed of fences (excluding hedges and woven fences), gates or walls, and attached to or surrounding a house with at least completed bottom level walls. The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area.

The last sentence is the problem.

It is impossible to see all sides of a house from ALL parts of the fencings enclosing it. Presumably, once part of the fencing will be the front side of the house, or in front of the front side of the house. If you are standing in front of the house, you cannot see the back side of the hose to know its wall is complete.

Poorly rewritten.

So what are you a lawyer or something? You need 2000 pages just to describe an enclosure? FFS. Use your brain for something other than a place holder for your ears. It's fine as is unless you're out to grief.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Sarcaticous

[Alyeska 2,621]

So what are you a lawyer or something? You need 2000 pages just to describe an enclosure? FFS. Use your brain for something other than a place holder for your ears. It's fine as is unless you're out to grief.

Are you really that stupid? If the rules are written poorly it opens loopholes, its good when people point them out instead of abusing them.

[Sarcaticous 338]

Are you really that stupid? If the rules are written poorly it opens loopholes, its good when people point them out instead of abusing them.

Listen Jack***, you want to get into personal insults I can do that too. I prefer to try and keep it civil unlike morons and boorish people like you whose only defense is bad manners..

Edited January 1, 2013 by Sarcaticous

[Emane 158]

Wouldn't it have been easier just to define 'completed structure' rather then re-write the entire rule....ie Completed structure is defined as any building which has all of the ground level exterior walls completed.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Emane

[JudusX 199]

The verbage is clear as it stands, it says "must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area.," which means very clearly walk around.

[Sarcaticous 338]

Wouldn't it have been easier just to define 'completed structure' rather then re-write the entire rule....ie Completed structure is defined as any building which has all of the ground level walls completed.

+1

But I think the OP thinks that if you can't see all the sides of a building then how do you know if it's completed or not. Forgetting that it may not be possible to see all the sides of a building due to terrain or other structures that you may not know are completed or not. It may be impossible to know if a building is indeed complete I guess. Don't know, never worried about bashing anyone's fences if they completely surrounded an area. Always thought it was bad manners.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Sarcaticous

[JudusX 199]

If you find that its necessary to bash a fence and there is any doubt about it being legal then ask the community, then a GM if you get no answer. honestly i see no reason to bash fences unless your intent is to take something from the other side, aka raiding. good judgement goes a long way.

[Archaegeo 136]

Tealc clearly stated above that you must be able to see all four sides of the structure to know it is complete (no roof required). If you need to walk around the fence to do that, thats ok, you just have to be able to see all four sides. This means that long fence runs where you cant see the back side might have issues.

And yes, the rules do need to be very black and white and clear. You cannot have rules and assume people will apply them with common sense. There are people that live to abuse loopholes.

Also, this all started with a CA that bashed a fence because the structure didnt have a roof. Common sense would have said the guy was finishing it, or considered 4 walls enough (which it turns out it is)

So the rules need to be as black and white as possible to let the GMs do their job well and give consistant and fair rulings.

[KunAlt 844]

This makes any tall wall enclosure bashable rigth away.

I know that i´m shooting my own foot, but maybe is better to get ride totally of enclosures rules, Deed it or loose it.

Edited January 1, 2013 by KunAlt

[Alyeska 2,621]

Listen Jack***, you want to get into personal insults I can do that too. I prefer to try and keep it civil unlike morons and boorish people like you whose only defense is bad manners..

If you think your reply was civil then you have answered my question, thanks for the swift and obvious response.

[Griffith 362]

This makes any tall wall enclosure bashable rigth away.

exactly what i was thinking

[Emane 158]

exactly what i was thinking

Unless can see in from an elevated position as he also stated....so that uphill side needs to be high enough to allow one to peer in.....the problem Im seeing is what to keep one from turning view distance all the way down and claiming it couldnt be seen.....

[Archaegeo 136]

exactly what i was thinking

See? This is why rules need to be black and white.

[Jberg 3,070]

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