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Multianna

Really No Stealing On Pve? :(

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Hey everyone.

Just started playing a few days ago and ive had alot of fun with my brother building our little settlement.

So today i wanted to go explore for animals to kill (which seems to be very rare). I came apon alot of stuff out there that was just for the taking. But for some reason i couldnt steal anything. So i asked in CA help and i was told there were no stealing on pve servers...

I got really disapointed, as of now i feel there is no danger at all, beside the few bear/wolf i meet. I like the idea, that if people dont lock there stuff, its there own fault if it gets stolen. If a guard see you steal, it should attack you. And you should loss karma.

Then you may think, why i dont join a pvp server then. Well i dont like the fact that i could loss everything to a gang of high level trolls, coming and destroying everything.

I like having fun, with reasonable amount of risk involved. Even war would be fine on a pve server, if it could be balanced somehow.

Cheers all.

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If you couldn't take it when it was on open ground, it was because the items were on a deed.

If you find items out in the open, not on deed, they're yours for the taking.

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All non-deeded items can be taken without consequence. Those items you happened to find were on a deed (which is a way of securing your items). The owner probably dropped them there because he was aware they would be protected; if there was no deed you probably wouldn't have found them there in the first place.

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The usual post...."I want to steal others people stuff, but I dont want people to steal my stuff". Dont you think the people whose stuff you wanted to steal would say some roving gang ganked my stuff? You are the exact type of player that you yourself want to avoid. PVP is about taking that risk to reap the rewards.

PVE is about community with the police (GMs and game mechanics) maintaining law and order. And anyways you can take stuff that is not deeded nor locked nor corpsed. It happens all the time we just call them salvagers rather than thieves.

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So whats the point of the thievery skill, when you cant go on a deed and steal? And whats the point about locks then?

The usual post...."I want to steal others people stuff, but I dont want people to steal my stuff". Dont you think the people whose stuff you wanted to steal would say some roving gang ganked my stuff? You are the exact type of player that you yourself want to avoid. PVP is about taking that risk to reap the rewards.

Where have i said, that i didnt want people to steal MY stuff? Of course i want it to be the same for everyone. Its not like i prefer to go take what is not mine. I just thought this game had more risk involved. Atleast thats what we understond from the beginning of the game, when you see skill as theivery and buildable locks.

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that codebase is same for PVP, it is just prohibited on PVE, use the worst lock because nobody can pick it. And you can be the hated 'salvager' roaming the map looking for others to turn the backs on unsecured stuff, so what are you complaning about?

You did say you dont want to lose your stuff. Do you really think PVP would be viable if they required skill matchups to ensure it is a 'fair' contest?

i dont like the fact that i could loss everything to a gang of high level trolls
Edited by yarnevk

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So whats the point of the thievery skill, when you cant go on a deed and steal? And whats the point about locks then?

Where have i said, that i didnt want people to steal MY stuff? Of course i want it to be the same for everyone. Its not like i prefer to go take what is not mine. I just thought this game had more risk involved. Atleast thats what we understond from the beginning of the game, when you see skill as theivery and buildable locks.

The reason the skill exists is because the entire game was once built around PvP. PvE gameplay was added at one point as an option but ended up becoming the more popular style of play. Both PvE and PvP servers share much of the game logic so some things like the thievery skill and 'steal' options are still visible in the game but have been put under restriction.

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Posted · Hidden by spellcast, January 11, 2013 - inapropriate
Hidden by spellcast, January 11, 2013 - inapropriate

brace yourselves....

the noobs are posting.

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I suggest you go Epic server, and play in home server. as for over half year i have played and not met single enemy in my local. When i started year ago i started in Elevation and met couple times but never got raided.

Edited by Ame
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that codebase is same for PVP, it is just prohibited on PVE, use the worst lock because nobody can pick it. And you can be the hated 'salvager' roaming the map looking for others to turn the backs on unsecured stuff, so what are you complaning about?

You did say you dont want to lose your stuff. Do you really think PVP would be viable if they required skill matchups to ensure it is a 'fair' contest?

Sorry but read again ;) I said EVERYTHING :) on a pvp server they can come and destroy it all. You get my point now? Theres a big difference. One is stealing and the other, destroying. I like the idea, that i need to protect my property from thiefs.

The reason the skill exists is because the entire game was once built around PvP. PvE gameplay was added at one point as an option but ended up becoming the more popular style of play. Both PvE and PvP servers share much of the game logic so some things like the thievery skill and 'steal' options are still visible in the game but have been put under restriction.

Oooh i see. now it makes sense. But it would be nice with more risk in my opinion. Not so much that it would cost you alot of work. But enough to keep it interesting.

Just when i started, i really liked the idea, that if i didnt lookout, i could actully get my stuff stolen. But now that i know, it cant happen. That "feeling" of anything happening is gone :/

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you want risk, goto pvp, pvp is the risk that comes with stealing. Pve servers is players vs enviroment, if you lived on exodus, you wouldnt survive long and ud find that the enviroment is alot harsher then what you think. Pve server is a no risk place, However stick around long enough and youll find that wildlife make this place very tough to live on. If you dont like this idea, then go pvp, dont like that idea, then this isnt the game for ya, Stealing items on protected lands will never be added to the pve clusters as moment it is, they will clear out

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It just happens to be so that deeds, which is a player's declaration of absolute land ownership, enforces certain rules that the owner can set. One of these rules includes taking items off the ground, and it's enforced even on PvP servers. The difference is that on PvP servers you can fight the deed guards if you want to break the rules, which is equatable to raiding someone's deed, which is a PvP feature. Note that deeds aren't free; people are paying money to protect their items (as well as their buildings). Not everyone has a deed, and even those who have deeds sometimes utilize off-deed space (and leave items there).

One thing you may forget however is that people would never tend to give you opportunities to steal from them. If deeds didn't protect items from theft, those items wouldn't be out in the open for you to take anyway - They would be locked up in buildings in the first place, and then your only opportunity to steal would be to destroy someone's house.

I wouldn't call PvE "no-risk" because there are several factors that risk penalizing you, but the key issue is that thievery and PvP goes hand in hand. If you steal from somebody then that person needs to be able to take revenge and return what you stole.

Edited by EliasTheCrimson

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Oooh i see. now it makes sense. But it would be nice with more risk in my opinion. Not so much that it would cost you alot of work. But enough to keep it interesting.

Just when i started, i really liked the idea, that if i didnt lookout, i could actully get my stuff stolen. But now that i know, it cant happen. That "feeling" of anything happening is gone :/

As has been noted, there are already a bunch of servers with the kind of play you're looking for. Try Epic; all but one of the servers there are open to non-premium players.

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Then you have to play on Chaos. You can still steal everything, just the question is about Getting inside the place to do so.

Chaos have nerfed pvp, you can steal but cant destroy anything, so you are pretty safe that all of your work wont be just destroyed some day in matter of few min.

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Nice so the chaos server is like the pve server the only different is that you can steal?

so if someone try to steal from my deed then my guard will kill them?

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kind of the guards can be killed fairly easy by players thats why most ppl have a lot of them on chaos and not just one

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A question, how come i can drag the large cart around on some peoples deeds. But i cant open the cart inventory?

Then you have to play on Chaos. You can still steal everything, just the question is about Getting inside the place to do so.

Chaos have nerfed pvp, you can steal but cant destroy anything, so you are pretty safe that all of your work wont be just destroyed some day in matter of few min.

That sounds interesting. Is there a place i can read about the rules of that server?

kind of the guards can be killed fairly easy by players thats why most ppl have a lot of them on chaos and not just one

"Kind of the guards" ? you mean there are more then one kind of guards?

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Stealing is just another form of pvp, so naturally it wouldnt be allowed on pve servers. There is always the pvp servers if you want to take up that particular skill path.

All game rules are posted on these forums in the GM Hall subforums.

Edited by Klaa

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A question, how come i can drag the large cart around on some peoples deeds. But i cant open the cart inventory?

That sounds interesting. Is there a place i can read about the rules of that server?

http://wurmpedia.com...x.php/PvP

Here is the info on PVP

"Kind of the guards" ? you mean there are more then one kind of guards?

There is one kind of guard. He meant that guards "kind of" protect your stuff. Spirit Guards can be killed by players with decent enough skills.

Edited by Lolabelle

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Dropping your stuff on others deeds is a bad side effect of the efficient server implementation which does not track whose stuff it is, it just assumes stuff on ground is the owners stuff. The deed is the container of the stuff in it if you want to think of it in terms of object oriented programming. Just look at a classic single player game like Morrowind that tracked whose stuff was whose regardless of where it is, for how messy the alternative could be with ownership lists. Consider that Wurm lets you combine stacks into one thing, lets say you stole cotton, then combine it with yours - whose cotton is it? If I deed over a decayed house, whose stuff is it? In PVP you don't need rules to sort that out, the guy you stole from is going to take back his and your cotton if he beats you down.

There are alliances, teams and permissions for working around this problem of simpler ownership rules.

Edited by yarnevk

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Epic has thievery and animals.

What you want is probably a home server. Desertion or Serenity.

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@ multianna - "A question, how come i can drag the large cart around on some peoples deeds. But i cant open the cart inventory"

This could be because 1) they added a lock to the cart to keep you out and 2) they have set the cart permissions so you cant open the inventory. Large carts have a 'manage' option where the 'creator/owner' can let or not let others have access.

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there is stealing (on epic) and then there is failing to secure your belongings (every server).

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There's great information on village protections at:

http://wurmpedia.com/index.php/Village

If you want to try Epic or Chaos, pay particular attention to the section called "upkeep draining." I'm not saying this will happen to you, the locals can better inform you on that, but it is something you should understand before you finalize your decision.

As Elias pointed out, there's at least one very important reason to have thievery on PvP servers but not on PvE servers.

On a PvE server, the risk is entirely the owner's. The owner loses something to the thief, and the thief has won. Nothing can really happen to the thief short of griefing of some sorts from the owner which would be very very bad for the owner. Thief has no risk. Owner has all the risk.

On a PvP server, the risk is shared by the owner and the thief. The owner loses something to the thief, the thief may well be tracked and lose quite a bit more at the hands of the owner, his/her friends, hired mercenaries, or any combination thereof.

What you're talking about kind of amounts to petty theft, pick-pocketing when someone's not looking or absent-minded.

Thievery in Wurm, if it is going to happen, is more about grand larceny.

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