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Sarcaticous

Time Cost For Clay Brick

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Will the material cost for clay bricks ever be any lower? It's really fairly high for such a simple item. Just because rock bricks are 15 stone does that mean clay bricks should be the same amount of material? Making clay bricks is much more time consuming for such a simple item.

It's much easier to just do one mining action for a rock brick compared to 8 digging actions for a clay brick. Even at four seconds a digging action that's a minimum of 32 seconds per brick compared to a maximum of 19 seconds for a rock brick.

Then for a rock brick there's one stone cutting action to finish the rock brick. For clay you first mold it, then bake it.

So the real problem isn't the material cost. It's the time cost. Clay bricks are way out of line for what you are making.

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In theory, this makes 100% sense, no one in their right mind would use a raw clay brick for their home. Also, it's much easier to just stick a pickaxe in a wall and pull off a sizable chunk. It's hard to get a nice sizeable chunk of clay quickly. On the other hand I believe that the reward should be worth the time. Clay bricks should have some benefit over stone bricks. I don't know what that could be at this point, it simply could be aesthetic. But it makes sense the way it is.

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And how does it make sense? One shovel of clay will gives enough material for one clay brick. Except it WURM. Where you need 15 shovels of clay. How does that make sense? I've made clay bricks. It's so far out of line in WURM that it's laughable. Historically clay bricks were used even in areas where stone was available because they were faster to make and more economical than stone bricks. But not it WURM where they are more costly in tme and equal to material.

Edited by Sarcaticous

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I agree Sarcaticous, clay bricks like a number of nice new building material additions to the game have been made much less desirable to use because of the inflated creation time added to the process. I find this rather discouraging at times to see some nice options that I might have prefered to use in various constructions that I would not even consider due to these excessive creation times tied to them. Don't see the point of it really and after I have completed rebuilding my 100's of roof sections and then started back on some other projects that I had going on before 1.0 I *may* then consider using some of these head shakingly time consuming objects. Dev's sure have a knack for inadvertently (?) discouraging the use of some nice building additions made to the game with 1.0.

=Ayes=

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I don't think that a shovel could grab enough clay in one dig, to make a stable and correct sized brick. I also dont think 15 shovels of clay would ONLY make 1 brick. Also, ignoring the cooking its much easier to get clay in bulk, much easier to transport it in bulk, and much easier to bake it in bulk.

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I love how the devs discourage people from using new, special floors and wall and roof types. For something to be special you must force some people to use less "awesome" materials.

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dont use a kids shovel would be an idea..

6 weight units of clay could very well make one clay brick

(why is bulk transport relevant here? both stone brick and clay brick fit in a bsb and you dont need to cook a stone brick..)

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Yes but while you can only hold roughly 6 stone bricks at a time (me at least) you can easily carry 20-25 clay in the same weight slots. So if your looking to build something, you can more easily gather and transport clay.

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Yes but while you can only hold roughly 6 stone bricks at a time (me at least) you can easily carry 20-25 clay in the same weight slots. So if your looking to build something, you can more easily gather and transport clay.

They're the same weight one way or another, so you can still only carry the same amount.

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The actual bricks? Cause 1 Stone Shard != 1 Clay. I'm talking about the foundation materials, Shards vs Clay.

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Yes but while you can only hold roughly 6 stone bricks at a time (me at least) you can easily carry 20-25 clay in the same weight slots. So if your looking to build something, you can more easily gather and transport clay.

This statement makes me realize how your arguments should be ignored. What the he** does transporting something make one bit of difference? I'm talking about making something, Not moving it from point A to point B. Come back when you decide to stop talking about something that does not apply to the subject at hand, to wit, crafting.

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clay is an infinite material. stone, while seemingly infinite, is depleteable, in that you can only dig so far in some places before you start hitting old tunnels and drop shafts, etc. and the mine spirals far out of control. so 1 shard = 1 brick makes sense.

also, you may be forgetting that its not really only a single brick that your making. its a "building unit" of brick. like say, a pallet, in real life. do you think 20 bricks would build a 9 x 10 wall in real life?

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clay is an infinite material. stone, while seemingly infinite, is depleteable, in that you can only dig so far in some places before you start hitting old tunnels and drop shafts, etc. and the mine spirals far out of control. so 1 shard = 1 brick makes sense.

Stone is also infinite. Wait long enough and the cave becomes filled with stone again. And 'some places' is a silly thing to say because in 'some places' you can mine practically an entire mountain and not hit another shaft. And exactly how does a mine spiral out of control? That one has me scratching my head. Don't forget you can also mine the floor and ceiling of a cave. You can mine the floor until you hit water and then some. So for practical purposes stone is infinite.

also, you may be forgetting that its not really only a single brick that your making. its a "building unit" of brick. like say, a pallet, in real life. do you think 20 bricks would build a 9 x 10 wall in real life?

You are forgetting that clay bricks and stone bricks are equal in size. So your statement doesn't matter. What does matter is what the OP posted. Time. Minus the firing it should not take more time to make one clay brick than it does to make one stone brick. It's easier to make clay bricks. Period. And since, in WURM, they are the same size it should take less time to make the clay bricks.

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In theory, this makes 100% sense, no one in their right mind would use a raw clay brick for their home. Also, it's much easier to just stick a pickaxe in a wall and pull off a sizable chunk. It's hard to get a nice sizeable chunk of clay quickly. On the other hand I believe that the reward should be worth the time. Clay bricks should have some benefit over stone bricks. I don't know what that could be at this point, it simply could be aesthetic. But it makes sense the way it is.

I dont know if you have ever used a schovel or dug in real life but its a hell of a lot easier than breaking stone into pieces. If you dont believe me take your local shovel and step it into your yard, now take that shovel and try to break a piece of concrete from your driveway or street. Clay is essentially dirt that is slimy and high in organic material, its pretty easy to get enough clay for a brick in one shovel scoop

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Stone is also infinite. Wait long enough and the cave becomes filled with stone again. And 'some places' is a silly thing to say because in 'some places' you can mine practically an entire mountain and not hit another shaft. And exactly how does a mine spiral out of control? That one has me scratching my head. Don't forget you can also mine the floor and ceiling of a cave. You can mine the floor until you hit water and then some. So for practical purposes stone is infinite.

i bet your one of the noobs that likes to dig down cave entry's because the action timer is faster on floor and ceiling. haha.

seriously though. if you live in a high traffic area, a mine is an interesting thing. and while in some areas, you can mine for a lifetime without hitting an abandoned tunnel or drop shaft, thats rare. oh and, mine tiles do collapse. but at an agonizingly slow rate. Ive been in the same location for over a year and have seen a grand total of 3 tiles collapse on their own. not counting all the countless tiles ive had to collapse with my mag priest to repair damage back when creatures were able to dig/destroy mine floors.

but i will hand you the the argument, for all intents and purposes, rock shards are infinite. since you could always make a mine elsewhere and ship shards in if need be.

You are forgetting that clay bricks and stone bricks are equal in size. So your statement doesn't matter. What does matter is what the OP posted. Time. Minus the firing it should not take more time to make one clay brick than it does to make one stone brick. It's easier to make clay bricks. Period. And since, in WURM, they are the same size it should take less time to make the clay bricks.

a skilled stone mason can make a square stone brick from a properly quarried rock in the matter of an hour or 2. clay bricks take days to make without automation. you have to mix the clay/sand/straw (or other reinforcement), then mold it, then let it dry in the sun long enough for the clay to cure and not cause cracks in firing. then... if your working in primal settings, stack the bricks, build a furnace around them, light the fire, wait for it to burn a few hours or days, then break the furnace off of the bricks... THEN build your walls.

i would say a little extra time to compensate for all that is fair.

also, remember a few months back when the action timers and difficulty of making pretty much everything was reduced. i believe the difficulty of the new building materials is some of that "hardcore mode" old school wurm philosophy sneaking back in. i expect it will get nerfed back eventually, so this whole thread is pointless.

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Once again you are wrong but that seems to be your forte. So pay attention. In REAL LIFE. That is what you are doing when not on the computer. Clay bricks are used even in areas where rock is plentiful BECAUSE they are faster to make and more economical. Period. End of story. Factual. Stop making up pretend stuff.

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a skilled stone mason can make a square stone brick from a properly quarried rock in the matter of an hour or 2. clay bricks take days to make without automation. you have to mix the clay/sand/straw (or other reinforcement), then mold it, then let it dry in the sun long enough for the clay to cure and not cause cracks in firing. then... if your working in primal settings, stack the bricks, build a furnace around them, light the fire, wait for it to burn a few hours or days, then break the furnace off of the bricks... THEN build your walls.

i would say a little extra time to compensate for all that is fair.

also, remember a few months back when the action timers and difficulty of making pretty much everything was reduced. i believe the difficulty of the new building materials is some of that "hardcore mode" old school wurm philosophy sneaking back in. i expect it will get nerfed back eventually, so this whole thread is pointless.

A stone mason has to first carefully mine the stone in an exact manner to prevent it from cracking or splintering. You seem to have conveniently left out that part. Nice way to wrap a fact.

Clay bricks do not take days. LMAO. You make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about. Please stop responding.

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A stone mason has to first carefully mine the stone in an exact manner to prevent it from cracking or splintering. You seem to have conveniently left out that part. Nice way to wrap a fact.

Clay bricks do not take days. LMAO. You make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about. Please stop responding.

Indeed, it takes weeks.

Not taking sides about the main idea btw, but just to let you know that irl clay bricks take weeks, not the industrial ones, but the artesanal ones that are widely used around the world. Sadly the link is in spanish, but in short, the cooking proces alone take 8-10 days, and also while even in most primitives modern ¨artesanal¨ operations today they use machines (tractors, shovels, etc) in the old days, the mixing of the ¨Adobe¨ was made by hoards of horses pathing in a circular fashion inside a round pen.

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I think the root problem is the amount of clay you get per digging action and confusion (by devs) of weight vs volume. The volume of a stone brick and clay brick are the same and a single mining action gives a volume of one brick+slop. Unfortunately the weight of the stone and clay bricks are also the same so it takes 15 actions to get the same weight of clay.

Realistically (which is not a good basis for argument in a game) the weight per volume of most rock vs clay differs by about 1.5x not 7.5x.

To me the proper solution is to increase the weight per clay dig action to 5kg and require 2 clay (10kg) per brick. Close enough for government work in terms of realism and solves the imbalance.

Edited by belthize
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A stone mason has to first carefully mine the stone in an exact manner to prevent it from cracking or splintering. You seem to have conveniently left out that part. Nice way to wrap a fact.

Clay bricks do not take days. LMAO. You make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about. Please stop responding.

well. if we want to continue talking about real life, all the phases of work were not done by the same person. so its not even an accurate comparison to the game where one person is doing all the work, from harvesting the raw material, to processing, to final product. in real life you would have a quarry operation ran by skilled workers that know all the tricks to cutting the stone from the ground quickly and accurately, which is then handed off to the stone cutters to shape to their final product which would then be handed off to the builders who put the bricks in place in the final structure. any one person only touches the brick for a few hours at a time. if even that.

for clay, its the same way. you have a crew of diggers "mining" the clay from deposits under soil or on a river bank, who then transfer the clay to the mixers who blend the clay with other materials to keep it from cracking while drying, and then form the bricks in molds, then leave the completed bricks to dry for days before firing, for days... before they finally get handed over to the builders.

either way you look at it, clay bricks take longer. clay and adobe building was used in areas with abundant stone for several factors, the main one being skilled labor, you can make the women and children of your village make clay bricks, as its a low skill operation that's difficult to mess up. where as stone cutters and the tools required to create stone bricks were hard to come by in some areas. also local stone might not have had the right properties to be shaped.

all in all. i think you just have to accept that the new building materials are difficult to use because the devs want them to add diversity, not become the 'default' material used. some people will use the new material for the "elite" look, others will rationalize time over achievement and go with wood floors and shingles. i happen to like wood floors anyway, and wood shingles look better than clay roofs. so there! haha

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So then according to people who don't want to use pottery bricks the amount of time should be increased. Since Jovan doesn't want to use pottery bricks things are just fine. That's because he doesn't give a crap. Great attitude Jovan.

And according to KunAlt it should take even longer. And that's true. Need about a week just to cure the things.

So maybe we should make it take even longer to make the pottery bricks so no one ever uses them. Personally I don't see why they are even in the game given they are a pain in the rear. Just get rid of them.

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So then according to people who don't want to use pottery bricks the amount of time should be increased. Since Jovan doesn't want to use pottery bricks things are just fine. That's because he doesn't give a crap. Great attitude Jovan.

And according to KunAlt it should take even longer. And that's true. Need about a week just to cure the things.

So maybe we should make it take even longer to make the pottery bricks so no one ever uses them. Personally I don't see why they are even in the game given they are a pain in the rear. Just get rid of them.

Sory Clatius you need to read my post again, i´m not talking about the original op idea, just remarking to Sarcaticous that clay bricks irl take lots of time to be made, to me 15kg per brick is overkill, but i´m a bit tired of figth against the nosense that has being droped in the game latelly, they are making the game more and more like a real work, and to be honest i have a real work in real life, and i got payed for doing it, don´t need a virtual one.

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This topic is hilarious. It starts with a guy complaining about the material requirement in a video game, and then launches into a detailed discussion on the intricacies of making clay houses in parts of the world with abundant rock resources, and the cultural factors involved in gathering the workforce needed for creating said clay. Seriously lol'd.

That being said, I agree that clay bricks should require less clay and less time to create.

Edit: Grammar

Edited by Raouket

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If you people really need to know, there are cooked clay bricks that are 5x10x20cm and they weight about 3kg when finished (would take about few hundreds for a single 2x2m wall)

There are also not baked clay bricks that are 20x20x40cm and weight about 20 kg each

now, speaking of clay digging, an average man with a normal shovel would dig at last 10 kg of clay per attempt, and that would take like 10 seconds

then, for the small baked bricks, that clay would mainly suffice for 3 bricks , also straw and water will be needed, those takes about 5 days to be finished, but you dont make one, you make like 2-3k of them

(my grandfather used to make cooked bricks, trust me, i know)

also, for the not baked brick, 2 digging would do, then again, added water, straw and horse fecal (yes, horse shet) those would be made in a day, left to dry about 3 days or so, again, it`s a matter of few hundreds of them, and only needs 2 people (again, i have seen how they are made, trust me, i know)

So, this topic, was about clay digging weight, so, being as huge as dirt/sand just wont be right, bet the 5 kg per digging, maybe 10kg should be nice.

and the last +1 to the original topic

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You don't need straw for bricks. Adobe bricks yes. Fired bricks no. Just add some sand to reduce shrinkage.

Why on earth does everyone seem to think all bricks have straw. :lol:

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