Procedurally Generated Sandbox Game

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Interesting site: http://voxelfarm.com/vfweb/blog.html

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5arfh0kJTo

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aTsZGAK8Lo

He is talking now about using the engine for sandbox style games, such as Minecraft or Dwarf Fortress.style games. I imagine it is years down the road to realization, but can you imagine a Dwarf Fortress/Minecraft or even a single-player Wurm style game that looked like this? He has other videos here This is not the same as that Euclideon "Unlimited Detail" controversy Notch tweeted extensively about, Miguel Cepero (author of the blog in the opening link) actually did a lot of extensive digging to join in Notch's accusations that the Euclideon team was massively and aggressively overmarketing their own abilities with it.

I think Planet Explorers is somehow using the same basic voxel usage (maybe?) but the graphics look a lot simpler, and more important not procedurally generated content like Minecraft/Dwarf Fortress, which is what makes those games so popular and gives them infinite replayability.

LIMIT THEORY is probably a lot closer as an example of a procedurally generated content game but its a space exploration game so harder to compare.

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Edited December 26, 2012 by Brash_Endeavors

[yarnevk 257]

Interesting engine for a Wurm 3.0 consideration that is 3D cubes rather than 2.5D terrain, though the 2.5D is nice because each tile has four edge slopes to it becauses its corners and not tiles that have height info, that engine looked more Minecraft blocky in the terraforming. Surface mining granite would be a lot slower than that video though!

Edited December 26, 2012 by yarnevk

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

I think he said someplace (trying to find where) that video is sped up to make it easier to watch. Though even at its normal speed I think it would seem abnormally "fast". Think also it is meant more as a Minecraft/Dwarf Fortress type game (in which terraforming is also "fast") , as those are the two games specifically mentioned on his site, and I am the only one who brought up any possible similarities to Wurm. Plus I don't think there has ever been any suggestion of anything but single player style games. Although he says in that entry he has no intention of making a Minecraft clone, later on he changes his tune. At this stage there really isn't a "game" just proof of concept for an engine I guess. He has another section where he talks about using computer procedural generation for the world/terrain and even for exploration-oriented caves and buildings, but needing to have labor intensive "human developers" for things like objects/animals/storyline/drama as even in the sandbox genre those are less easily generated randomly.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Brash_Endeavors

[Elen 1,013]

Proceedural generation is the future of mmo's ~~~ i say this knowing almost nothing of mmo design.

Well preceedural generation, sandboxing, and pvp ~~ it's like free content for devs.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Elen

[yarnevk 257]

yeah if only more devs realized that true sandbox means not wasting time developing quests and raids and dungeons....you only need PVE AI Let the rest take care of itself....

[Laiwyn 188]

yeah if only more devs realized that true sandbox means not wasting time developing quests and raids and dungeons....you only need PVE AI Let the rest take care of itself....

After having played Wurm, I can agree with this. I don't know if I'll ever be able to play another themepark MMO again.

[Raybarg 437]

My future gaming entertainment seems bright!!!

Especially as long as Brash keeps playing Wurm (or talks in this forum) and runs her great Games News Office... So in case more interesting choices to play present themselves it wont take me five years to find it.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Raybarg

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

I am certainly going to be following this project myself as it develops. I know he refers to it as a Minecraft clone, but I have always had a secret yearning for a Skyrim+Wurm=Skwyrm style sandbox game ... maybe this could be it.

Interesting engine for a Wurm 3.0 consideration that is 3D cubes rather than 2.5D terrain, though the 2.5D is nice because each tile has four edge slopes to it becauses its corners and not tiles that have height info, that engine looked more Minecraft blocky in the terraforming.

I did find this later suggesting that "Minecraft blocky" look may not be part of the final vision:

Into The Sandbox

But unlike Minecraft, you can use tools to smooth out the blocks creating nice curves and slopes. The idea is to work initially in squares, then smooth it out as needed. Smoothness and slopes comes in a second phase. Otherwise it would be too difficult to place them and control the resulting shapes. I think it is the best approach possible. It combines the simplicity of square blocks with the rich appearance you can find everywhere else in this virtual world.

So sloped roads and terraformed hillsides, and perhaps even round castle towers seems to be part of the plan. I have always wanted to make a cob house. (I suspect I might have a little Radagast bloodline in me somewhere...)

Edited December 27, 2012 by Brash_Endeavors

[Aum 771]

i also really want to see wurm on this engine in the future!

[Cunk 45]

I think the biggest problem with what you see in those videos is the obstacle of storing and sharing the data. A map that's big enough to satisfy hundreds of players with the terrain granularity you see in those videos would probably require a pretty advanced data handling system. Not saying it's impossible, just not something to dismiss.

edit: Oh, he seems to be envisioning this for single player games which is much more feasible.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Cunk

[Klaa 4,872]

Its techniques that have been bantered about among developers for approx a decade. In theory its all kinds of awesomeness; however, the hardware to support a practical implementation: solo or multi game, just doesnt exist yet. Cost effective hardware catching up, and Im sure theres even some NSA or other government level gear already capable of it.

Still its fun to ponder and work out the possibilities. Stuff like this and full VR gear would be beyond awesome.

Anime like Dot Hack, Sword Art Online, or Accel World really make me drool; however, it will likely be towards the end of my lifespan. Kids will likely be going "Sure whatev, Grandpa" as they slip on their nervegear neckchokers and wave through virtual displays.

[Elen 1,013]

Too true klaa, i would have been much happier to have been born this year.

[Raybarg 437]

Dont worry about computation power.

The australians made working Qubit and are believing real quantum computers are out in about five years. Just wait to get your home quantum computer, it probably has more processing power than humanity has today combined.

[belthize 438]

Into The Sandbox

But unlike Minecraft, you can use tools to smooth out the blocks creating nice curves and slopes. The idea is to work initially in squares, then smooth it out as needed. Smoothness and slopes comes in a second phase. Otherwise it would be too difficult to place them and control the resulting shapes. I think it is the best approach possible. It combines the simplicity of square blocks with the rich appearance you can find everywhere else in this virtual world.

I'm impressed, the procedural generation aspect isn't as interesting to me as the support for irregularly shaped voxels. I've been looking at engines (or the lack thereof) that support real time world deformation for many years. The new wave of voxel approaches certainly look promising though there's a lot to be said for a surface approach still in terms of storage volume (similar to pixel vs vector graphics). Wurm's an example of the latter though somewhat crudely done. Rather than pure continuous open surfaces (water layer, rock layer in wurm) you can mix the surface and voxel approach and treat rock, water, soil, veins as closed surfaces (ie volumes).

Many engines have a surface model approach and support world deformation but only through an editor that requires a world reload, some of them could be modified to provide editor tools to the client (think shovel/pick) and update in real time.

I'm curious what his licensing fees are.

Edited December 28, 2012 by belthize

[Nimba 16]

I've been following his blog for quite some time - he hasn't decided what he wants to do with his "procedural world" and is understandably wary of some of the proposals he's been getting. Probably very wise of him.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

he hasn't decided what he wants to do with his "procedural world" and is understandably wary of some of the proposals he's been getting

Well, on this page he states there are currently three gaming projects in development using the engine. The "Mystery Game #3" is his own in-house project meant to showcase what the engine is capable of, and I am pretty sure it is the "Minecraft clone" he mentions here and in a few later posts. Mystery Game #2 is a small indie studio with big dreams and an implied question whether they can actually pull it off. Mystery Game #1, he says merely "You will be pleasantly surprised." Apparently not a small indie team possibly in over its head, and apparently not his own in-house project. If we are "pleasantly surprised" it suggests possibly a larger and more well known developer (as we would not be "surprised" by an unknown company or game franchise). In any case, he does have a page for more people to contact him about licensing the engine and getting a private presentation, so he seems to be feeling it's time to start working on actual projects. Preferably by people who have money.

Still, could be years before we know anything more than that.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Brash_Endeavors