Nutrition: It Does A Body Good

[Coronus 0]

Ok. I have been playing the game for a few days, and I have noticed a few things that might put alot of people off.

Food: Firstly, food makes no sense. I had my guy eat 5 kg of food in the span of a real life hour, and his food bar barely moved. However, I go out, and forage, and come across a QL 60+ berry by luck, and eat it, and i got 20% hunger off of it. Now, My thought, as an aspiring game developer, is that the QL of your meal shouldn't affect hunger. I mean, even if i were to shovel 5 kg of mcdonalds (which is far from high quality fair) into my mouth, i would still be full. I would just get sick. I would be lethargic. My stamina wouldn't be what it was worth. So, I suggest the following change to be implemented.

Rather that QL of food affecting hunger, it could affect your nutrition. Your nutrition could affect how much of a stamina hit you take for performing actions. so far, i have only ever been able to get to 50 nutrition, so i would take that as being 100%. Now. all things being equal, lets create an example.

In this example, i am at 100 food and water, and 50 Nutrition. Sawing a plank from a log would cost me 20 stamina (just as an example).

Now, With my thoughts on the system, you would have a very easy time sawing planks, if you were at full nutrition, and full everything.

Now, lets say your stam regen was affected by nutrition. the lower your nutrition, as a percentage value, the higher of a stamina cost that your actions incurred. This means every action. Running, swimming, farming. It would reflect either an unhealthy or poor diet.

Now, going with the same guy as above, you have 100 water and food, and 25 nutrition. That is 50% of full nutrition, so sawing a plank would cost half again what it normally should. In this case, sawing the plank would cost me 30 stamina (20 stam with an additional 50% penalty). So, now instead of being able to saw 5 planks back to back, i would only be able to saw 3.3 before my stamina is drained.

Just a thought. Newbies don't have to spend the majority of their time scrounging for food and what not, but they still have to work their way up from the bottom. Just one of a few thoughts i have run into.

[samollly 18]

I thought the QL of a meal does effect your nutrition..... and nutrition effects how often your hunger bar goes down

[boombza 515]

food and nutrition already plays apart.

the higher the QL of made food the less of it you'll need to replenish your food bar, the higehr the QL also means more nutrition you get from them. Nutrition effects game in other ways too, as Samolly said your hunger goes down slower and you get more skill gain if your nutrition is above 70%(iirc).

If your simply eating berries and foraged goods, that wont be enough to sustain you for along amounts of time. Its best if you make actual dishes from them, such as stew or casseroles. Though if your hot food cooking is low, the QL of the food you make will also be low, meaning your nutrition wont be great and you'll need more of it to keep you full.

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side note

If you are a follower of a dieity and happen to come across/make a rare+ item, you can sacrifice that at your gods altar and there's a likely hood that your will be blessed with a refresh(full food and water with nutrition at 99%).

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Hope that helps.

[RomaN 890]

It does the body good... where have I heard that saying before?

Oh... right.... OH GOD NO!!!

/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8GMh4OuH10

[Iulianx 90]

I just imagine that character are just picky and throw away most of the low QL food picking only the edible parts. That's why they gain so little.

[Coronus 0]

i already figured nutrition played a part. thing is, with my cooking skill being as low as it is, the quality level of the prepared food isn't all that high. now, 5 kg of food and an overall gain of 15% to my food. this vs. 1 berry of some sort at 60%+, .30 kg, filling 20% of my food bar all it's own. yeah, the berry alone killed my nutrition a bit, but it was worth it. It made no sense.

As for someone throwing away the vast majority of their meal because the food is 'bad'? that only happens in america. at this point in my character's life, he is living in a shack that he built as a squatter, and he can't even kill his own food. do you really think he is going to toss the vast majority of his meal because it's low quality?

No. he's gonna eat that, no matter what. as stated before, mcdonalds is low quality, but thousands of people per day force themselves to eat it, when they would rather have enough to be able to make a full blown meal.

imo, food and nutrition, as well as its effects on stamina and gameplay need to be reexamined.

[boombza 515]

Food effecting stamina, you like wine?

[Dran 24]

I agree with you, wurm food is a bit strange. Eating super high QL berries fills the bar quickly, but nutrition percent maxes at a low % (I think it's 20?). But a low QL meal takes forever to fill you up and gives you higher nutrition %.

It would indeed make more sense to have the main food bar, let's call it "fullness" be based on the volume of food you eat, and the nutrition based on some combination of the type of food and the quality.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Dran

[yarnevk 257]

Nutrition should be a slower running average of the last so many meals. A diet of berry and herbs should put you into the yellow, but eating a handful every now and then should not.

[Protunia 735]

I kind of like how it is in game right now because it is actually a part of the game and you can feel it right away with the choices you make on what you eat. I do not want to see it become OK i ate a good meal once a week now I never have to worry about what i eat.

I see no problem at all with the current system as it actually make a difference in how the game is played.

[belthize 438]

Nutrition should be a slower running average of the last so many meals. A diet of berry and herbs should put you into the yellow, but eating a handful every now and then should not.

This I definitely agree with. There is room for improvement without turning eating into a significant grind.

[Coronus 0]

I kind of like how it is in game right now because it is actually a part of the game and you can feel it right away with the choices you make on what you eat. I do not want to see it become OK i ate a good meal once a week now I never have to worry about what i eat.

I see no problem at all with the current system as it actually make a difference in how the game is played.

WIth the system i propose, you would still have to eat more than once a week, or even once a day. It just wouldn't be as much of a grind for new players to be able to do anything.

The system i propose, is that your food be turned to 'fullness', as stated above, and your overall nutrition be what affects your stamina, moreso than the amount of food in your stomach.

Rather than Starving, you would be malnourished. Actions would cost more stamina to perform in a malnourished state, thus showing your bad health.

Eventually, you would be able to get rid of your malnourishment, by eating higher ql foods. In my mind, that seems just a bit more balanced than the current system.

[yarnevk 257]

I disagree with nutrition affecting stamina. It think it is realistic that poor nutrition affects your mind you cannot think straight (your skilling) whereas if you are hungry you do not have the energy to do anything (your stamina). The hunger stamina is realistic in that it is much slower drain than water, but also much more deadly if it does happen as you literally cannot move and better hope you are sitting on a strawberrry. And nutrition also does affect stamina indirectly, you are better off being fat with reserves than skeletal,

Of course the game mechanic of fasting trading nutrition for hunger is not realistic but dont count on that to get away from the spider, and we don't need to be putting noobs into permacoma so at some point it needs to be a gamist rather than realistic feature. I do not think eating 5kg of bad food means you actually ate and digested it all, rather it just came quickly out either end (something we do not need to model) or you had to pick thru the uneatable parts (much easier to imagine)

Noob being on the yellow on foraged herbs and berry cold casserole is part of the devs subtly encouraging premium deeders (or villagers), in that guard meat and protected veggie farms with hot meals makes you fat and happy. I deeded right away on my new alt, and it makes a huge difference being in the green after a wurm week, something that took me an earth month to achieve on my first ever alt (just from moving around and not settling down, combined with lack of understanding of the cooking/hunger/nutrition). I just knew how important food is to the early game and focused on the farm and guard first, before I even considered making a noob mine or a shack, as a result even though I am <<10QL on fires and pottery bowl and cooking like any other noob, I am in the green.

Learn to master the system first before you start suggesting such a major change, it really just needs some subtle tweaks and is a very good system otherwise. I find it telling that you ate so much in an hour; I suspect you ate cold casseroles, instead of hot casseroles. Don't pack them and eat them cold, you need to eat in front of the campfire. I had 5kg of guard meat and foraged herb casseroles (saving veggies for the garden) and stayed green all thru my garden flattening, and after many IRL hours stopped for a hot snack due to hunger. Still green.

Edited December 21, 2012 by yarnevk

[Hussars 511]

Actually fasting reduces your nutrition because you are burning a character fat level. Just like animals, character have multiple fat levels.. you fast enough and you won't be able to fast any more. Been there, done that, and it sucks.. no stamina regen, skill gain penalties and movement speed reductions.. examine your character, it will give you an idea of what fat level you're at.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hussars

[Coronus 0]

I disagree with nutrition affecting stamina. It think it is realistic that poor nutrition affects your mind you cannot think straight (your skilling) whereas if you are hungry you do not have the energy to do anything (your stamina). The hunger stamina is realistic in that it is much slower drain than water, but also much more deadly if it does happen as you literally cannot move and better hope you are sitting on a strawberrry. And nutrition also does affect stamina indirectly, you are better off being fat with reserves than skeletal,

Of course the game mechanic of fasting trading nutrition for hunger is not realistic but dont count on that to get away from the spider, and we don't need to be putting noobs into permacoma so at some point it needs to be a gamist rather than realistic feature. I do not think eating 10kg of bad food means you actually ate it all, rather I just came out either end (something we do not need to model) or you had to pick thru the uneatable parts (much easier to imagine)

Noob being on the yellow on foraged herbs and berry casserole is part of the devs subtly encouraging premium deeders (or villagers), in that guard meat and protected veggie farms with hot meals makes you fat and happy. I deeded right away on my new alt, and it makes a huge difference being in the green after a wurm week, something that took me an earth month to achieve on my first ever alt (just from moving around and not settling down, combined with lack of understanding of the cooking/hunger/nutrition). I just knew how important food is to the early game and focused on the farm and guard first, before I even considered making a noob mine or a shack, as a result even though I am <<10QL on fires and pottery bowl and cooking like any other noob, I am in the green.

Learn to master the system first before you start suggesting such a major change, it really just needs some subtle tweaks and is a very good system otherwise.

I could make the counterargument that bad nutrition would not only affect your mind but also your stamina. Again, I point to the fact that I can be fat and happy off of mcdonalds, and have all of the fat reserves i want. doesn't mean i will be in the best of health. My breathing will be worse, my stamina will be worse, and an unbalanced diet has already been proven to affect your thinking, which is what nutrition/nourishment is all about. You can be fat and happy and still be malnourished.

As for 'picking through a meal' for 'the good parts'? I have been homeless before. I know what a person is willing to eat in order to get their stomach full. I ate quite a bit of food from soup kitchens that had i the choice, i wouldn't have eaten it otherwise. but i was hungry, and homeless, and had no idea when i was going to get my next meal. Ultimately, that is what you are, coming into Wurm. A homeless person who has no idea where their next meal is coming from.

As for this being a 'subtle' way to shove you toward getting deeded or something? well, let's just say, if i have to face this food/hunger grind for the majority of my stay here, deeded or not, then I just won't worry about trying to get deeded. I mean, I come in, i can't kill anything to get meat, i can't cook worth a damn, and half of my time on the game after 24 hours, is spent foraging and botanizing if i want to be able to do anything. Seems sort of antithetical to wanting you to join the community. Just sayin.

[Iulianx 90]

I did suggest this a while back

Redo the Nutrition system

Edited December 21, 2012 by Iulianx

[belthize 438]

As for this being a 'subtle' way to shove you toward getting deeded or something? well, let's just say, if i have to face this food/hunger grind for the majority of my stay here, deeded or not, then I just won't worry about trying to get deeded. I mean, I come in, i can't kill anything to get meat, i can't cook worth a damn, and half of my time on the game after 24 hours, is spent foraging and botanizing if i want to be able to do anything. Seems sort of antithetical to wanting you to join the community. Just sayin.

Try playing the game for a bit first rather than speculating about how things work later on. As you get more settled staying fed with high nutrition becomes trivial. As far as your initial stay just don't eat. Your focus initially should be setting up a base, worrying about eating is a losing proposition until you have a steady source of meat and veggies. Then it's just like any other skill, grind it up till it's easier.

Wurm is not a reality simulator, it's a game. The purpose of food is not some grindy thing for you to worry about, better to view it as a perk after you get settled. Higher nutrition = faster skill gain, higher food = faster stam regen.

[Hussars 511]

Also, one of the things asked for was a better document for new players reinforcing the benefits of joining an established town or at least partnering up with a more experienced player.

In the starter areas, you have 24hours of gameplay where you are given free food from the Inn Keeper (or bar keeper whatever their name is now lol) near the token of the starter towns. After that, you're on your own.

With Pristine having been completely fresh for all players, this is the only way to get decent food at the start, everyone is having to build their supplies up as well as their skills.

Those folks who deeded early get a leg up, since they can have a spirit templar which will kill creatures for them, which the player can use for meat. Cooked meat (while still hot) will provide better nutrition then most "gathered" berries and such, making it even easier for these players in the short term.

For more on nutrition in game (link)

While I understand the point of 5kg of low ql being less effective than a high ql berry, consider it more that you only ate the parts you were willing to eat while trying to avoid sickness (or ate but couldn't keep down). For food, ql could be considered freshness/spoil rate/and presentation all in one...

[yarnevk 257]

Wurm is an extreme solo survival game, the intent is that you join a village and work and learn together if you want it to be easier.. You do not have to pay any money nor be premium to join a deed, only the founder is footing that bill. In return for hot meat casseroles that puts you into the green you help them around the deed, and have a safer environment to learn the game. You are complaining about a system and insisting on changing it before you have learned how to use it, it is called hot food cooking for a reason, the nutrition gain is only there if you eat the food when it is hot.

However cold fish are also a decent survival meal that fills you up a lot better than foraged herbs, just keep your eyes open for the mobs sneaking up on you while you fish, and you only need to forage a cotton and rummage an iron lump, and cut down a tree to be able to go fishing with a fine pole that catches the big fish. Yes you will be in the yellow but you will not be hungry, and once you get the clay you can start making fish based casseroles (trout with herbs!) which will start getting you out of the yellow, you do not need to have a deed guard for that. I ate nothing but raw herbs and fish for a wurm week before dropping a deed and had plenty of energy for outrunning mobs, which I had to do because I left my weapons behind in my toolbox when I intentionally dropped it, knowing that anything out there I cannot kill anyways.

The wiki is full of tips that are worth reading because if you are starving and can barely move, there is indeed a better way to go about things.

http://wurmpedia.com...ot_food_cooking

Hussars link was also good and one I had not seen before myself, but it reinforces what I experience, if you refuse to get or join a deed, and are on a server with hostile mobs, then you best go find a quiet spot for fishing as it is your best food that does not use HFC. It also points out that nutrition indireclty already affects stamina because it determines how long before you go hungry again, which affects your stamina. Skilling is just a small bonus, while small it stacks up when you combine it with other bonuses that generally come with a deed (priests enchants on tools, a nice warm fur bed and quality hot meals)

Edited December 21, 2012 by yarnevk

[Hussars 511]

Never said you needed a deed to survive, only that those who deeded (or joined a deed) early had a bigger advantage than those who didn't/don't.