Posted December 21, 2012 Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:18 PMYes, Sizewell, I'm afraid so. The game has gone through a lot leading up to what it is today. We try our best to protect your belongings but the different solutions we make in order to stay alive makes it hard. This time it proved impossible in a sensible time frame. This is why we (and most online games) have a no reimbursement policy.Wurm ver: 0.99This was from Rolf in response to a loss of my Drake armour suite back in January of this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 While I have not lost any animals from these bugs, I cant help but comment here based on some of the other responses.While this game certainly reminds me a lot of Ultima Online, to follow their ancient policy of not reimbursing PAYING customers when bad code causes item/animal/skill loss, is unacceptable. If Rolf is either unwilling, or incapable of checking the database logs to verify item/animal/skill loss, and then provide a reimbursement for losses caused by bad code, then they really have no business charging people real money.This isnt 1996 and nobody who pays money wants to hear "too bad, so sad." Being an "indie" developer does not give them license to mistreat paying customers either. If you publish bad code that causes losses, you need to rectify them. Period.This is exactly true. like I said about my horse. I was leading it, and it disappeared and is no where in sight. Two mods have helped search, but no like. This horse had 70QL saddle, and 4 50 QL horseshoes making it run 31 KMH. each item had 45-50 WOA. Along with this being my only male, it was also a five speed. So basically rounding to the nearest ten, 10silver is just up in smoke and all I get is a "I know it sucks" Yes it sucks...but what are you going to do about it? And for above, MOST online games have a no reimbursement policy when it comes to refunds, not game breaking bugs. MOST games correct their game breaking mistakes. So Rolf is, quite frankly, talking out his rear on this one. Because he don't, does not make him the majority. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 Besides, when this might be able to slide in a beta, since we are all testers, this is an official "finished" game now. It needs to meet certain proffessional expectations or slip back into beta. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 Rolf should just do the right thing and reimburse the losses. I wasn't affected myself, but I'm sure nobody could state a good reason for people to not get their stuff back. This was all caused by a developer error. It's a seriously bad move to stick to a no refunds policy when it makes no sense to in this case. Do you think people will just buy replacement stuff when certain things (animals) can't just be bought like that? I see two routes here:1. Reimburse items/animals - Shows good faith. People = )2. No reimbursement - People lose faith when this could easily happen again. May affect customer faith and subscriptions/willingness to invest in Wurm.So come on Rolf, it's Christmas, don't be a grinch. People remember bad things like this for a long time if you doubt fix your mistakes.PS - Ask Santa to get you a good solution for your data backups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 This again? I lost about half of my newb village on GV last time it happend... I demand them back! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 Counting Losses From Last Update? - countless so far... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 I lost my remaining bisons to the second strike of the bug. Funny thing is I had new iron fences all set to move them into last night, but I was too tired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 I lost 7 horses in total.2 Black Females - one was 3 away from giving birth2 Brown Males - Mature and Aged3 foals - 2 females, brown and white, 1 male, black.I completely understand the GM's seeming lack of concern for the fact that their players have withstood a pretty decent loss in some cases. I can imagine that it would be very difficult to make sure that people reporting losses aren't just trying to take advantage of the system. However, as far as I can tell, there hasn't even been a response to the ridiculous amount of complaints about losses. In some cases, people have lost hours and hours of work, only to be completely ignored and told to get over it when they do the only thing that any reasonable person would do when faced with that situation and try to contact support to regain their losses. I think it is only right for the Devs to at least make an effort to compensate the losses. If that means filling the SB bar for everyone, or spawning some more horses randomly around the server, or something (anything), then at least it would show some sort of effort instead of just plain ignoring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 you know if u would have loged in, you would notice we was given 5 hours sb today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 you know if u would have loged in, you would notice we was given 5 hours sb today.Please tell me you're 10 or something...wow. I haven't "loged" in yet today, but I'm glad to hear that there was at least something done. Honestly, I already had about 4 hours saved up from using a bed, but no matter. I just hope that this wanton disregard and lack of consideration for the people who are paying to keep this game alive doesn't continue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:18 PMYes, Sizewell, I'm afraid so. The game has gone through a lot leading up to what it is today. We try our best to protect your belongings but the different solutions we make in order to stay alive makes it hard. This time it proved impossible in a sensible time frame. This is why we (and most online games) have a no reimbursement policy.Wurm ver: 0.99This was from Rolf in response to a loss of my Drake armour suite back in January of this year. Is that seriously what he wrote? There are perhaps a handful of games still in existence, this game being one of them, that has this supposed policy. Where does he get this crap from? I have been online gaming since Meridian 59 was released (and have played almost every North American MMO released since) and in that time I think I have played all of 2 or 3 games that had a no reimbursement policy. Ultima Online was my first experience, I believe Runescape is the same and then there is this game. Every other game I have played in the last 15 years has some way of verifying the loss (pronounced database query) and reimbursing the customer. This is simply a matter of not enough staff to do the work involved in querying the DB to get the info you need. Rolf should not be trying to peddle this off as some sort of fictitious "industry standard" that simply does NOT exist.I really, REALLY find it unfathomable that any company in 2012 would find this to be an acceptable level of customer service or support. I think I will hold off on spending any more money in the store for the near future and see how this situation pans out. To me a couple hours of bonus XP in exchange for my real life money just doesnt cut it. I am also going to research what, if any, consumer laws this may be straining or breaking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 ahhh quit yer whining and go find new animals, its not the end of the world yet... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 Less than 10 minutes later I have this so far:Bragg v. Linden Lab487 F. Supp. 2d 593 (E.D.Penn. 2007), was a civil action (No. 06-4925) removed to the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania in October 2006. An online virtual world service provider (Linden Lab) terminated the account of a user (Marc Bragg) when it discovered that he had found a way to acquire virtual land at a lower-than-market price. The user brought this suit, which was ultimately settled before a final decision was reached. However, the District Court did decide on two issues which may be important in future virtual world litigation: that the Second Life Terms of Service’s mandatory arbitration provision was unenforceable; and that interaction with a person in a virtual world can satisfy a state’s "minimum contacts" requirement for personal jurisdiction. 487 F. Supp. 2d 593 (E.D.Penn. 2007), was a civil action (No. 06-4925) removed to the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania in October 2006. An online virtual world service provider (Linden Lab) terminated the account of a user (Marc Bragg) when it discovered that he had found a way to acquire virtual land at a lower-than-market price. The user brought this suit, which was ultimately settled before a final decision was reached. However, the District Court did decide on two issues which may be important in future virtual world litigation: that the Second Life Terms of Service’s mandatory arbitration provision was unenforceable; and that interaction with a person in a virtual world can satisfy a state’s "minimum contacts" requirement for personal jurisdiction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 I believe this is very true. I am not a lawyer,I believe you.Less than 10 minutes later I have this so far:Bragg v. Linden LabDoesn't apply, Rolf didn't terminate the contract. But you guys have fun playing lawyer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Well i lost 3 pairs of hell horses i have been breeding for the traits i wanted...all that time is gone now. I understand things happen but from what i seen it might happen every server restart until Rolf gets back from break to fix it if this is true then the staff needs to announce that this is the case or stop the server restarts until it is fixed. The way it is now i am having to redo one of my stables with stone fence on the outer part to help guard them from this until it is fixed then i will have to rebuild again to put them back wood once they are fixed for sure. (yes i prefer the wood fence over the rest) Edited December 21, 2012 by Kegan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 dude get the law idea out of your head, its not possible, wont happen, there is EULA's in your path. Move on. We all had crap happen to us, good news is its all replaceable. were all upset bout recent events. It happend bugs happen. They learn from it and try to fix it. i switched a pen to stone to match the others. Problam solved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 ahhh quit yer whining and go find new animals, its not the end of the world yet...So if you paid your mechanic to give your car an oil change and when you went to pick up the car you noticed all 4 tires were "missing," you would be cool with the mechanic telling you to quit yer cryin and go buy some new tires? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 dude get the law idea out of your head, its not possible, wont happen, there is EULA's in your path. Move on. We all had crap happen to us, good news is its all replaceable. were all upset bout recent events. It happend bugs happen. They learn from it and try to fix it. i switched a pen to stone to match the others. Problam solved.An EULA does not trump consumer laws, nor can you bind someone to something such as arbitration instead of a lawsuit, just because the EULA says so, as described in my post above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 So if you paid your mechanic to give your car an oil change and when you went to pick up the car you noticed all 4 tires were "missing," you would be cool with the mechanic telling you to quit yer cryin and go buy some new tires?No because that's malicious intent on the part of the mechanic. If on the other hand I took my car in for an oil change and they had a notice saying 'not responsible for accidental damage' and they broke something in my car on accident I'd stop going to them unless they happened to be the only and or best mechanic in town. In that case I'd probably stomp up and down for a bit then get on with life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 difference is dude, this is a game a virtual world and you all knew there could be bugs and complications. Nowhere does it say you wont encounter issues and no where does it say youll be reimbursed for stuff lost. So yea. Back to wat i was doing :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 Very long and legalese written paper on Virtual property and laws pertaining to them.http://www.bu.edu/law/central/jd/organizations/journals/scitech/volume171/documents/Gong_Web.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 An EULA does not trump consumer laws, nor can you bind someone to something such as arbitration instead of a lawsuit, just because the EULA says so, as described in my post above.You clearly don't understand the case you posted. If Rolf had terminated your contract by arbitrarily closing your account you might have an argument and the case you posted would at least kind of apply. If you'd bought those horses from some in game store you might have an argument though the case you posted wouldn't apply. If you'd exchanged money for silver and never received the silver you'd definitely have an argument though the case you posted still wouldn't apply. None of those occurred.You entered into a contract with a 3rd party when you bought horses or you entered into a contract with yourself if you spent time breeding those horses. In neither case is Rolf or Wurm a willfull party. You have no grounds to sue for the loss of goods that he wasn't a party to. You opted to buy them and you opted to secure them. You have accepted some form of risk and in this case you rolled snake eyes.But hey, go ahead bring a court case, let us know how it turns out. In some jurisdictions you'll be lucky if you don't get fined for wasting the courts time for bringing a frivolous case before the bench. Heck I'd like to fine you just for posting this nonsense here.BTW to folks who lost horses, I'm not implying you don't have grounds for being annoyed, of course you do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 bahh dont talk to that troll, thats all hes doing is trolling. back to better things to do ^^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 Well once I can accept as a mistake but TWICE in the same week has me dreading to log in and fix it again. It is never good for any game when that is the feeling a game gives you. On top of that I haven't even made it to the Impalong to help out wich I have been looking forward to for months since I am having to catch my animals every other day . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 21, 2012 I believe you.Doesn't apply, Rolf didn't terminate the contract. But you guys have fun playing lawyer.What are you trying to say? You quoted me saying I'm not a lawyer, you make no sense to my non-lawyer brain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
