Crazy's Are Out

[Che 250]

Ok Che, then I'll send the bill for you to pay and see if you like it. I just barely have enough to take care of myself. If I were rich I wouldn't mind

so since you barely have enough to take care of yourself, you have a computer, where you are playing a game that you most likely is paying for? right.. . . . . . .

Guess you would rather have it like before Obama took up the healthcare, leave those who do not have insurance dying on the street, when they enter the hospitals they are asked if they have insurance, if not they won't treat you, as civilized as it is.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Che

[Windeee 36]

Is that my fault. I didn't make ppl poor and I don't think what little I have is to take care of others. I take care of myself and I dont ask anyone to pay for things for me, I work for all that I have and I don't think I should support the world.

So I shouldnt have a computer and I should support poor ppl. Jeez Everyone is gimmee what you have.

Get your own stuff and take care of yourself is how I feel. You what to help the world go ahead but dont tell me that I have to.

[Jarosz 189]

Is that my fault. I didn't make ppl poor and I don't think what little I have is to take care of others. I take care of myself and I dont ask anyone to pay for things for me, I work for all that I have and I don't think I should support the world.

So I shouldnt have a computer and I should support poor ppl. Jeez Everyone is gimmee what you have.

Get your own stuff and take care of yourself is how I feel. You what to help the world go ahead but dont tell me that I have to.

You don't have to pay your taxes. and if you truly don't make enough, you don't have to purchase healthcare. you won't be fined for it if you don't make enough. You know, if you are truly poor. If you don't have health insurance, you aren't the answer, you are part of the problem. People without heath insurance are more likely to use the emergency room when they get sick. costing the hospitals 10-100x what a normal preventative visit would cost. This cost is then passed on to those who do have Health insurance (IE the Upper and Middle class).

So, please, tell me again how me paying for your health care for the last however many years is any different than you now having to pay for those who make less than you?

[Farmerbob 369]

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

Rank by homicides (nobody cares about how people commit suicide), the usa is the first developed country, in great company of a ton of 3rd world countries that are notoriously violent and corrupt. The first civilised county after the usa is canada, with 20% the rate of the usa, possibly that high due to proximity to the usa, and therfor availability of guns. The average civilised European country has 5% of the usa's death rate by guns. That's 20x less people dead by not giving everyone guns.

Hrm, When you start showing numbers for Israel or Switzerland that are worse than US numbers because they have more guns per person, then I will begin considering that strict gun control might be worth considering.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns can make it easier, but a U-haul truck and a fertilizer bomb in the hands of a clever lunatic can kill a lot more people than any popgun wielding nutcase.

http://en.wikipedia....ma_city_bombing

Edited December 20, 2012 by Farmerbob

[Windeee 36]

Why should we pay for healthcare for ppl from other countries? I could imagine if Americans crossed the border into Mexico and asked for free stuff and see what they do?

I remember a while back some guy came up to me and needed gas money to get home cause he forgot his wallet. He was panicing and he wanted $10.00 and I only gave him 5 and I told him to go ask those guys standing over there for some. He did and they said no, and guess what they were a bunch of Mexicans.

I was commenting on Gramuly post about how great America is cause he used to jump trains and get free food, and told someone to come to American to get stiches. Why was he jumping trains and getting free food? ... and he thinks thats what makes America great. Was he so poor he couldn't get food?

No one minds helping ppl who really need the help, but so many selfish and lazy ppl want the government and everyone else to help them.

Sry this post got off topic

[Che 250]

Why should we pay for healthcare for ppl from other countries? I could imagine if Americans crossed the border into Mexico and asked for free stuff and see what they do?

I remember a while back some guy came up to me and needed gas money to get home cause he forgot his wallet. He was panicing and he wanted $10.00 and I only gave him 5 and I told him to go ask those guys standing over there for some. He did and they said no, and guess what they were a bunch of Mexicans.

I was commenting on Gramuly post about how great America is cause he used to jump trains and get free food, and told someone to come to American to get stiches. Why was he jumping trains and getting free food? ... and he thinks thats what makes America great. Was he so poor he couldn't get food?

No one minds helping ppl who really need the help, but so many selfish and lazy ppl want the government and everyone else to help them.

Sry this post got off topic

Ah right, the person who lies outside the hospital half-dead with no leg and is bleeding out and will recieve no help since he has no insurance is selfish and lazy becuase his parents was poor.

The farther away there is from poor people and rich people, the less civilized and the more corrupt it is.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Che

[Jarosz 189]

I sure as hell hope when I travel abroad and get hit by a car that the foreign country's hospital would do everything in its power to help me recover instead of letting me die in the gutter outside begging for enough money for admittance.

[Benniegann 0]

. . .

Guess you would rather have it like before Obama took up the healthcare, leave those who do not have insurance dying on the street, when they enter the hospitals they are asked if they have insurance, if not they won't treat you, as civilized as it is.

I'd like to know where you get your information about US and it's healthcare.

Your images of America are not very accurate. People are not left on the sidewalk dying because they have no insurance. Our system is not perfect, but none are.

If the overseas media portrays US being how you describe it, then you are being fed misinformation.

Obviously you are happy living in your country and from what you describe US should go statehood over democracy. No thanks.

Considering the population of the US, the shooting spree issue is not any worse per capita than the majority of the rest of the world.

[Miretta 1,415]

I dont know how bad it really is......but what sign is it, when people consider not travelling to america, because it's all over the media how much shooting happens? I don't only talk about those mass murders...where one person runs insane...I'm talking about police and normal people...

one difference I believe is, that we have more rules regarding weapons....if you have a weapon, you made a long training for it and you have to secure the weapon always! in a safe at home so kids cant get access and if you are travveling you need to close them up too and put out the ammo and so on.

This may sound stupid if you want to use it as protection for yourself, cause in the time you got your weapon...another person maybe killed you already.....OR it maybe saved your life, because you couldnt act out of an "impulse"

and about healthcare....in germany you pay for part of your medizine and for glasses and some full narcotica(for OPs) when you reached the age of 18! before that age you get everything paid from your insurance, which is btw not private mostly....(except your parents have an own business)

but you still have to pay a monthly fee.....

I just heard in america there is ONLY private insurances and everyone of them costs alot of money :/ so how do you pay that? specially if you have to still pay for most of those "special" stuff for health?

[Jarosz 189]

I dont know how bad it really is......but what sign is it, when people consider not travelling to america, because it's all over the media how much shooting happens? I don't only talk about those mass murders...where one person runs insane...I'm talking about police and normal people...

one difference I believe is, that we have more rules regarding weapons....if you have a weapon, you made a long training for it and you have to secure the weapon always! in a safe at home so kids cant get access and if you are travveling you need to close them up too and put out the ammo and so on.

This may sound stupid if you want to use it as protection for yourself, cause in the time you got your weapon...another person maybe killed you already.....OR it maybe saved your life, because you couldnt act out of an "impulse"

and about healthcare....in germany you pay for part of your medizine and for glasses and some full narcotica(for OPs) when you reached the age of 18! before that age you get everything paid from your insurance, which is btw not private mostly....(except your parents have an own business)

but you still have to pay a monthly fee.....

I just heard in america there is ONLY private insurances and everyone of them costs alot of money :/ so how do you pay that? specially if you have to still pay for most of those "special" stuff for health?

The problem with the media is that the population and land mass in America is huge, and any sort of gun violence is publicized as happening all over the US on a daily basis. Even though we only have 1-2 shoots a day if that and the "mass killings" have been spread out geographically speaking. We aren't gun totting imbaciles as your media might like to make it look. Only about 30% of the US households have a gun in them, and only about 20% of the population owns a gun personally. Police shootings is usually a racial tension crisis in only certain parts of the country. Just don't travel to the South is all I have to say

As for the Health care, the Upper and Middle classes have been supporting the lower classes ER health care for some time now. Our poor are sick because they cannot even begin to afford even the lowest level health care. Even middle class health care is symbolic in nature. You still end up paying $2-300 for a simple checkup with blood work every visit. Not even most Middle class families can afford their own Healthcare even when an employer is paying the monthly premium. IE, we still avoid going to the Dr office because we can't afford a $300 bill. If we were paying for our own health care it would easily be $2-400 a month for basic coverage where the $2000 deductible must be paid out of pocket before the insurance pays a cent.

The benefits of Obamacare will not take affect until the start of 2013, and the perceivable benefits won't start effecting the American citizen for some 10 years from now. We need to fill the coffers before they start paying out and lowering overall health care costs. The start is subsidizing the ER visits with accessible preventable care visits for the poor.

[Benniegann 0]

How many people chose to not travel to England after the subway bombings? That was the only really large news story that we've seen about England. Outside of the Royal Family stuff we hear very little of the goings on in other countries. (Without intentionally seeking it out). Is it a fair portrait of England to say that all they do is blow up subways and beat each other up during soccer/football matches? But that is all we see, I know there is more to Europe than the isolated events that we see in the US. The "tragic" stories are usually the only ones that make it across the oceans.

It's human nature to shy away from places where we aware of violence. But in today's world, I don't think anywhere can be considered "violence free". Idiots and such can be found anywhere.

We do have laws on what one must do to obtain a gun legally (this shooter killed the owner of the guns used to access them). Not as strict of a policy on how they should be stored, which isn't a bad idea.

[Hussars 511]

Don't forget, in most parts of the country (US) ER visits at a county/state owned/run hostpital, they CANNOT legally turn you away for a lack of insurance. This is one of the major points of contention in most healthcare arguements.

A private (for profit) hospital can, and sometimes does, direct you to one of these "fine" facilities. If it's bad enough, they'll at least stablize you before doing so since the costs to them in fines if caught far outweight the costs they lose for doing so. (usually this entails an ambulance taking you to the "other" hospital, but not always).

With the new subsidized health care system, there is a lot of misinformation on both sides of the discussion. The fact is, no one really knows what the final impact will be to the average level of health care in the nation. We can only look at other countries/nations, like Canada, which use similiar systems and plan around the difficulties they have experienced.

We probably won't have a real measure of the impact until 15-20years from now because it won't be until you have people born under the system reach "adulthood" to accurately measure across demographics.

[Jarosz 189]

good points Hussars... a lot of the "financing" of obamacare was left for further development and dependent on making a national health database to force down costs. if a database is accessible to every doctor, with not only your history of health visits, but also access to all health trends, cuts down costs dramatically, and needs less office workers to run a hospital (hospital overhead). Essentially what we got was a "everyone who can afford healthcare must purchase health care" clause with a compromise of "free birth control and Insurance companies can't deny you for pre-existing conditions"

Biggest thing to look for in 10-20 years is the mass depopulation of the US as the baby boomers start to pass on. Sad because those are my parents, but true facts. the less people on SS/Medicare the less has to go to retirement and government health. We are getting to the point where those 2 systems will most likely cost the Government more than any other program in the history of Governments. Which is why the Gov is looking to drive down the cost of Hospital visits as much as possible now while they still can. Not enough people working to pay for it all.

[Judicator 539]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/us-shooting-deaths-sandy-hook_n_2348466.html

Since the school shooting, already 100 more people died by gun.

[AndreC 48]

Here's my take on the situation. It's a tragedy and so forth, but I'll jump on it like the politicians have..... Of course with their crap timing, using tragedy to their advantage.

More gun control is not the answer. Unless you eliminate the entire civilian populations weapon supply, this can still happen. Hell, if you do it still can, just with more powerful, illegal weapons. just my take on the situation.

"Secret police" is probably the best answer here. In every school, there needs to be a random teacher who of course volunteers, has a licence, has proper training should be the only non-police on campus to carry a weapon. Of course this is holstered on their body consealed so that nobody knows until you pull it. Problem partially solved. Unless you make a force field thats the best you can do.

Edited December 22, 2012 by AndreC

[jacobw 23]

Well just look at the stats about gun deaths per capita lol. Speaks for itself. And yea people in the USA got used to their very bad infrastructure and think it's like that everywhere. Very similar to Soviet Russia.

About guns: even if they made all guns in America illegal now, it wont help for another 30 years, as by now there are so many around, it will take decades for all of them to break, go lost or out of use, because people with bad intentions will be able to get their hands on them for as long as they physically work.

The argument about people who do bad things dont obey the law, so they get guns illegally is true for this transition period only. The moment there are (almost) no guns around anymore, it doesnt. You cant get guns illegally if there are no guns sold anywhere.

guns are easily made so it makes the 30 yr mark unrealistic unless you ban all tools that can make a gun as well(most of which are used in a wide variety of other applications)

[jacobw 23]

Ah right, the person who lies outside the hospital half-dead with no leg and is bleeding out and will recieve no help since he has no insurance is selfish and lazy becuase his parents was poor.

The farther away there is from poor people and rich people, the less civilized and the more corrupt it is.

actually life threatening wounds HAD to be fixed and patient stabilized before they got send back out into the world .... and yes this was pre-obama care BS,if you are going to raise a point make sure to actually research it

[Ecrir 887]

guns are easily made so it makes the 30 yr mark unrealistic unless you ban all tools that can make a gun as well(most of which are used in a wide variety of other applications)

so guns are easy to make, how about the ammo?

[jacobw 23]

so guns are easy to make, how about the ammo?

bullets take little more then copper (easy to get via pipes and wires) a forge(easily made with an old bbq grill and a fan...have one in my back yard) and a mold ,either bought or made by hand like it used to be.....all the plans for this can be found by searching the net for 5 mins,or even most large libraries ,the gun itself requires a little knowledge of how it works(or plans off the net) and mostly simple tools,most complex being a drill with a metal bit and for accuracy a threader

edit: for that matter you can use steel or almost any metal for the bullet,just harder to make due to steel requiring carbon at certain %,and different heating temps

Edited December 23, 2012 by jacobw

[Ecrir 887]

So both guns and ammo is easy to make, but in countries where they are banned it's not happening, so why would this be an issue at all?

[jacobw 23]

actually in gun-ban countries people are dieing,some by guns("if you outlaw guns then only outlaws will have guns") others by knives,improvised bombs(also disturbing easy to make from plans on the net/books like anarchists cookbook),bows,even a couple with crude weapons like bats and beating the crap out of someone till they are dead...the media ,especially in america tends to hype and show only the bad portions of our society,whereas most other countries either hide it or the media doesnt go yelling at the top of their lungs about it worldwide and runing the same story for days-weeks so it is less known

guns only make killing easier,taking them away if that was even possible to do fully(the logistics of it and the fact that there are unregistered guns/easy to make make this un-realistic) will just mean people will find other ways to kill

the underlying problem isnt the tool,its the user, whether its due to physiological conditions or just our animal nature humans have been killing humans for as long as we have been around(for example cavemen bones,and if i remember correctly 1 tar-pit fossil there has been evidence of our killing each other from long before there was guns)

the argument take away all the guns and people will stop killing each other is thus idiotic and nieve....that said the arguement for a fully armed society (if everyone has guns they can stop people trying to kill other people) is equally moronic, the logistics of training every american citizen to properly defend themselves and others in that type situation is daunting to say the least and as an earlier poster said that would most likely invite more revenge killings

i believe the key to this is monitoring of the mentally sick also physiological requirements to be placed on gun ownership,as well as the current criminal background reqs....we will never stop killing each other but i think we can lower it ,even the "sane" kill for love,revenge,land,money and objects to name just a few of the top ones,taking the crazies out of the equation is a step in the right direction

Edited December 23, 2012 by jacobw

[Farmerbob 369]

If it were possible to prevent mass killings by making guns illegal I'd seriously consider it, but it's not. Nutballs don't need guns to be nutballs. Go to the grocery store, buy a gallon of bleach, a gallon of ammonia cleaner, a couple containers of lighter fluid, and a few tubes of superglue. Get a couple pieces of angle iron. Get a fatsuit from a costume shop and put the stuff in it and go to a movie. When the movie starts, go and superglue the inner doors shut with the angle iron, then go to the emergency exit, put the two plastic containers of chemicals on the floor, douse them with lighter fluid, light the fluid with a zippo, close the door, and superglue the door closed.

Typically psychopathic people who do mass killings are fairly smart, because the dumb ones end up doing stupid things earlier and going to prison or getting killed by cops. Timothy McVeigh & accomplices killed well over 200 people without using a gun. People around the world use explosive vests and vehicle bombs all the time. Japan had someone release Sarin in their subway system.

All you do by creating gun-free zones is attract smart nutcases who know that they won't get shot before they can kill lots of people.

[jacobw 23]

post went dead after my last comment,glad to see the person reviving it wasn't someone trying to argue "guns kill people",much as i enjoy telling them they are morons