Please Balance Archery With Something A Bit More... Logical

[TekDragon 3]

The minimum range doesn't make sense. A longbow hitting you at 5 meters isn't going to be "innefective". It's going to be very effective. It's just going to take longer to draw and aim.

There are far better ways to balance the different bows while making them all useful. Here's an idea, which I'm sure others can fine tune into something even better:

Short bows:

Low armor penetration bonus.

Low damage bonus.

Full damage up to 5, drops off 20% damage per tile after that.

5 Second draw/release time.

Bow:

Medium armor penetration bonus.

Medium damage bonus.

Full damage up to 10 tiles, drops off 20% damage per tile after that.

8.5 second draw/release time

Longbow

High armor penetration bonus

High damage bonus

Full damage up to 20 tiles, drops off 20% damage per tile after that.

12 second draw/release time

[Kadore 926]

I don't think a longbow at point blank range would be anymore armor piercing that a short bow.

[Che 250]

I don't think a longbow at point blank range would be anymore armor piercing that a short bow.

the power required to draw the longbow is enormously higher then the shortbow, therefore it will also emit enormously higher energy then the shortbow, of course it will be more armor piercing/emit more energy then the shortbow once it hits it's target.

[TekDragon 3]

I don't think a longbow at point blank range would be anymore armor piercing that a short bow.

That's because you either don't understand what a longbow is in relation to a shortbow, or because you don't understand physics.

An arrow's maximum velocity is shortly after it's released. Every unit of time that passes decreases that power. The arrow derives that velocity from the tension of the bow string. A longbow requires far more power to draw than a shortbow.

A British longbow at point blank range could go through the front of plate armor, through the body, and out the back of the armor. A Mongolian shortbow at point blank range would bounce off plate armor.

Edited December 14, 2012 by TekDragon

[Baultr 90]

5 seconds to draw back a bow?

[Hussars 511]

A fun discussion on bows (physics and theory) can be found here (external link)

[Garis 210]

Long bows can accelerate a heavier arrow to a higher velocity than short bows can, imparting more kinetic energy and ultimately delivering a more forceful attack than a short bow can.

Armor penetration capability should involve a combination of arrow weight, arrowhead type, and the material used in the arrowhead. One thing people consistently don't seem to understand is how brittle iron is in comparison to steel. I used to hang out at the local iron pours, in the back alley with what amounts to heavy leather armor and a face shield, breaking old iron radiators salvaged from demolished homes with a heavy maul all afternoon, into quarter sized pieces of iron that were easier to melt down for our sculpture class. You can hit an iron pan with a hammer and it'll break like a pottery vase.

Steel doesn't do that. I think updates to arrows should come along with updates to different armor materials. A steel war arrow should be heavier than a flight arrow, have a shorter range, and therefore excel at punching through iron mail than an iron flight arrow does. Flight arrows should be lighter, have greater range, and not have anywhere near the armor penetration.

Flight arrows would therefore be more useful with short and medium bows than war arrows, as smaller bows wouldn't be able to impart the velocity to the heavier arrows. War arrows would be heavier, more resource intensive, and require medium or long bows to use. Medium bows would produce lower range and less damage than a long bow would.

So why then would anyone use short bows? I think perhaps it's time that medium and longbows have a minimum strength requirement, and either draw time or accuracy be related to the body strength of the archer. Simply put, a longbow has a very heavy draw (historians estimate that these bows required between 81 and 200 lbs of force to draw). Who do you know who could draw 130 lbs and hold it at anchor long enough to aim?

Perhaps short and medium bows emphasize body control and long bows emphasize strength. They're not just the same weapon in different sizes, they're completely different tools for different purposes.

[Nacka 5]

I would also be interested in armor types affecting weapon type damage. For example, chain mail would be highly resistant to slashing type of weapons compared to piercing weapons which would go through it like butter.

[Klaa 4,872]

"Shortbows" for one thing are easier to use on horseback. Now the power and range varied alot depending on the materials used; though, typically, it would be a backed or composite construction to allow for more power in a shorter draw.

The traditional English longbow would be completely yew (occasionally some other woods since they started to run out of yew). Its power was generated by the sheer length and mix of tension/compression that required a very long draw. In addition, its simpler construction allowed the English to churn these things out by the tens of thousands. Every village was required to have a range and to train.

Now granted Ive never tried shooting a longbow from horseback; however, Id imagine trying to get a full draw at full gallop would be quite prohibitive. Thus the classical usage of backed and composite bows in mounted archery.

The current minimum ranges in Wurm were created in an attempt to try balancing archery in general for gameplay. Granted its an experiment that can still use work.

Course when archery in warfare was generally abandoned in favor of firearms, many of the technological details, methods, and specs were forgotten, and are recently being "rediscovered". For example, how effective a properly equipped arrow (and bow) can be against types of armor. For a bowhunter, many of the recent documentaries and historical studies are quite fascinating.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Klaa

[TekDragon 3]

5 seconds to draw back a bow?

Knock, draw, aim, release - usually from horseback.

If anything it should be higher, or horseback riding should give a penalty to draw time.

[Garis 210]

Knock, draw, aim, release - usually from horseback.

If anything it should be higher, or horseback riding should give a penalty to draw time.

Oh man, flashback city. When I was an instructor, it was:

"Stance, knock, extend, draw,

anchor, tighten and hold,

aim, release, and follow through."

We used to make the kids chant those words over and over again while making their bowstrings. Good times.

Edit: Lest you worry, it was a summer camp, not some paramilitary cult. I taught horseback riding, archery, blacksmithing, and candlemaking. Time of my life.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Garis

[Gone420 609]

12 second to shoot a longbow?

talk about being made useless for pvp lol

[Wiro 370]

If you can ride while shooting then 12 seconds is fine.

[mentalmisfit 49]

i think its fine

[Ecrir 887]

I'd cut out the damage bonus variable completely.

Just make it so that a longbow penetrates better than a medium bow, which again penetrates better than a shortbow. Better penetration already results in higher damage, so bonus damage as an extra variable shouldn't be needed then and would probably make the bigger bows way better than the smaller ones. Then it's penetration vs fire rate, either you fire lots of arrows that don't penetrate all that far, or you fire a few with great penetration.

[Saddist 82]

The faster one is traveling the longer the draw time, to stimulate the difficulty of the shot..

Also if target is moving decrease to hit chance based on speed of target.

To hit a moving target while it and you are moving should be very difficult if you are both mounted. At shorter ranges the difficulty would be almost negated by the fact that a short bow Is both easier and quicker to draw, whereas with a longbow any mounted shot should be impossible.

[Elen 1,013]

Oh man, flashback city. When I was an instructor, it was:

"Stance, knock, extend, draw,

anchor, tighten and hold,

aim, release, and follow through."

We used to make the kids chant those words over and over again while making their bowstrings. Good times.

Edit: Lest you worry, it was a summer camp, not some paramilitary cult. I taught horseback riding, archery, blacksmithing, and candlemaking. Time of my life.

No real optinion on archery in game, but I went to a camp just like that back when I was a lad, good times.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Elen

[MrGARY 12,421]

I think what we have now kinda fits Wurm good enough tbh. Though it'd be nice to see med bow altered a little, as is now it's pretty much useless. Shortbow does less damage than longbow, but very versatile though lacking some accuracy at longer ranges. Longbow can do some brutal damage especially with height bonus, really good for taking out enemy horses asap. Medium bow is kinda just shortbow damage and doesn't have the long range accuracy longbow has, closer to shortbow really, but has the 5 tile limit for close range, so it's pretty much a paperweight.