Major Griefing

[Puertorro 371]

The player Darwin in independence server is blocking off a big area that is not under a deed with several 1x1 buildings and a fence. This player does not even play the game anymore as it took me 2 weeks to get ahold of him and when he logged in he ignored my PM and logged out in less than 5 minutes. This player is obstructing tons of tiles of land and roads with his tactic. I confirmed this by managing to get thru one of his gates that he just happened to leave open. I scouted the area and it is full of nothing but trees and nothing else. This player is clearly practicing GRIEF by not allowing new and old players to expand or create new deeds in the area and also preventing players from accessing the resources that are there. I urge the management team to take a look at this matter since is affecting every player old and new in this area.

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

If you think this is griefing, you should be doing a /support not posting about it here, /support will get you quicker results.

[Puertorro 371]

I did but I guess because current game mechanics he is "within his rights". It doesn't change the fact that he is abusing the mechanics. I just hope management does something to bring this players to to comply with rules and not exploit them.

[yarnevk 257]

You have the right to buy a neighboring deed, expand perimeter over the shacks for forced decay no repair, and expand the deed over the fence to own and bash them. It is not wrong for you to do so, and is the very means you have to put a stop to it, as any complaints to staff from your neighbor will get the same answer, so sorry but those are the rules. If there is no room to place a deed yourself, then you will need to contact the existing neighbors and have them expand. This will cost you or the neighbors money up front and every month for upkeep, and patience for decay, so you must be more committed than the free-loader if you want to solve it.

For all we know you are the the land baron who they are protecting public forest and hunting lands from for the good of the community. There are two sides to every fence. So 'Deed it or Lose It' applies to the both of you, whoever does it first IS in the right. Just be prepared for their post to the forum calling you a jerk for being a pay to win land grabber.

Don't assume they ignored you on purpose, one of my neighbors is a maintenance alt who checks in once a week to get his mail and update his upkeep, and it took several tries for him to notice the local chat pinging him before he logged out, yet he turned out to be nice enough to say you finish the boat you keep it since he has drydocked it for 2yrs unfinished. Prior to that I had a neighbor who was swapping clients to hit three more continues on his building before swapping back to his main he was running around on thus it was not safe to stop and chat, and the one time he did stop it was to say hey he found my corpse on the highway with my stuff and he will come get me on his boat so I can get my stuff. In both cases I called them jerks under my breath until I actually talked to the person.

Now in the prior post on this matter here, http://forum.wurmonl...anics-exploits/ you obtained a different answer, but that policy change has since been redacted. However rule #1 is to really try to talk to your neighbors first, or at least the other neighbors if indeed he is being the jerk they will support you in the needed expansion.

Edited November 18, 2012 by yarnevk

[Cartrip 132]

Puertorro, there is so much open space and completely un-utilized resources on Indy that Darwin's reservation couldn't possibly qualify as griefing. Perhaps if the server filled up with deeds I could see it as being greedy, but there is more undeeded land than deeded land! Get out away from the most crowded area in the server!

[Metrix 24]

You have the right to buy a neighboring deed, expand perimeter over the shacks for forced decay no repair, and expand the deed over the fence to own and bash them.

Yarnevk, they have changed/fixed the deed perimeter code. You can no longer slide a perimeter under a house you do not own the writ to(at least that was my understanding from talking with CA)

[crutchly 8]

well just because one player is griefing you does not mean you have to KOS everyone that comes in your local. I live one deed over from yours and share my time between 3 deeds you KOS'd my alt as soon as he entered your local despite never having met or talked to you. thats downright unneighborly and not the way to make friends in this game.

but hey who am i to say how you play your game

[Reylaark 1,100]

You have the right to buy a neighboring deed, expand perimeter over the shacks for forced decay no repair, and expand the deed over the fence to own and bash them. It is not wrong for you to do so, and is the very means you have to put a stop to it

Actually, if they are houses surrounded by a fence, wouldn't that fall under enclosure rules making it protected? I'm kind of thinking people can't slide perimeter over enclosures as per the enclosure rule...

Yarnevk, they have changed/fixed the deed perimeter code. You can no longer slide a perimeter under a house you do not own the writ to(at least that was my understanding from talking with CA)

that policy change has since been redacted.

However rule #1 is to really try to talk to your neighbors first, or at least the other neighbors if indeed he is being the jerk they will support you in the needed expansion.

^^this I think too. Always get to know the neighborhood .

[Hussars 511]

Yarnevk, they have changed/fixed the deed perimeter code. You can no longer slide a perimeter under a house you do not own the writ to(at least that was my understanding from talking with CA)

Actually, they didn't.. It was only to fix the the exploit of new deeds deeding/periming over existing buildings (link)

Actually, if they are houses surrounded by a fence, wouldn't that fall under enclosure rules making it protected? I'm kind of thinking people can't slide perimeter over enclosures as per the enclosure rule...

They actually asked about this in another thread and got a direct response (Link)

Basically, you can't bash directly in, still have to wait for decay, but "Deed it or lose it" once again applies.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Hussars

[Trepper 78]

First off he plays nearly every day for several hours. The land he enclosed was done back when he and I had deed next to each other. At that time the entire area with in an hours walk from the start point was void of trees except on deeds. The area was set up to enable a forest to grow. In addition that entire fence has to be maintained or it will decay. It is covered under enclosure rules. Darwin is a very nice player if he is treated with respect he will treat you with respect. How ever the land he has spent his time developing since the server first started is his land. By deed and enclosure rule. If you want a place of your own go out and find one there is lots of open places instead of going after good hard working players.

[Metrix 24]

Thanks for the info Hussars, its been a few days ago since i inquired about it so now i see there is more recent information.

[yarnevk 257]

Hussars beat me to it...I asked specific pointed questions worded exactly as I have here for existing policy and got the positive confirmation, despite CA contradictions, my OP was confirmed by Enki.

Only a deed can break enclosure rules. Of course it requires patience, time and money for that to happen. First you deed with perimeter aside the house. Next you expand perimeter over the house to stake your claim to force the house to decay , you cannot bash the house to deed over the land but you can loot what is open (which if it is a blocker shack is likely nothing). You can also deed over the fences (if you have expanded perimeter to start with) and bash them down, but you should be the mayor for the bash bonus or have catapult skills as a decent fence section with a maul will take all day. Once the blocker shack is gone from decay, then you deed over it and move on to the next one....only to find all is moot if the neighbor who has the enclosure writs has deed expansion room to cover them and was not actually absent.

Or you just talk to the neighbors rather than assume they will be OK with clear-cutting public grounds or whatever the situation is here. I know nothing about these two neighbors the only way to get where I live is swim or boat and I have to hike to find a local chat, and only time in this disputed area was when I was a noob with a compass lost on a corpse and did not even know community maps existed.....but as I said earlier there are two sides to every fence which apparently is the case here.

Now I am someone IRL that sued the neighbor over property line because the day I got the keys she said she owned my kitchen and carport, and I won the historical line of middle of the driveway at a mutual legal cost of 20x what the property was worth at the peak of the real estate boom. But I still ended up moving, except now I was broke and divorced due to 2yr legal battle, I could deal with that; but I could not not stand living next to neighbors that hated me even worse than before despite court saying I was 'right' all along. Once you poison the well there is no turning back. Which is why I said talk to your neighbors is the first thing that should ever be done, if you find the guy is a jerk and all the neighbors agree, maybe it was wise to never settle there in the first place....

If you thrive off conflict over property lines then the PVP servers are where to move, PVE servers you have to behave as you would in real life respecting both legal AND social rules.

Edited November 19, 2012 by yarnevk

[Puertorro 371]

Well I was given a solution to this. Since his fence, just happens to be at the end of my perimeter, I can bash it down. Also, the GM informed me that his enclosure is illegal and that he will get in trouble for it. On regards to talking to him, I asked him politely to give me access thru his gate and he trolled me and danced around me. Thanks to everyone that gave feedback to this post.

[Keldun 335]

Actually, they didn't.. It was only to fix the the exploit of new deeds deeding/periming over existing buildings (link)

They actually asked about this in another thread and got a direct response (Link)

Basically, you can't bash directly in, still have to wait for decay, but "Deed it or lose it" once again applies.

Hussars you understood that wrong, Yarnevk asked whether a deed can brake and enclosure fence and Enki confirmed that it does.

[Garis 210]

This is a self-correcting problem. He'll get sick and tired of maintaining all of the walls and buildings, and they'll rot out, then new players will come through, and build their own settlements up against those same walls, using them for defense. And from the decay of his initial land grab, dozens of little hamlets will emerge.

Many of those will be abandoned and rot as well, but one of them might plant a vineyard, which will inspire another village later on to settle the area and "restore it to its former glory".

It's the great cycle of wurmian life. Revel in it.

[Hussars 511]

Hussars you understood that wrong, Yarnevk asked whether a deed can brake and enclosure fence and Enki confirmed that it does.

Hmm was under the impression if the fence was "just" in perim it was protected, if the fence ends up on deed it is now owned by the deed and subject to bashing.

Thanks for pointing it out though, will go reread the whole thing again.. damn my insatiable need to study rules...

Edited November 21, 2012 by Hussars

[yarnevk 257]

However the word deed means deed and perimeter means perimeter. You cannot break a fence enclosure that is not built by you that is in perimeter, you must wait for Wurm to do it for you via decay or purchase expansion for your deed so that the fence is is moved into your deed proper so you own that section of fence and can bash it or even easier own the gate fence and have lock rights transferred to you. Even then you can't bash the house itself even though you perimetered the house and deeded the fence but you can loot it once a wall falls.

People mistakenly say 'my deed' when referring to the outer perimeter ring, but those are not deeded lands as is clearly indicated.by tile examine. Now for the tile border where the fence is I think it is considered deed border if a tile it borders is deed, as don't think that examine works for borders to tell you who owns it.

When I took over decayed house, I was stuffing myself with the food storage bin and looting everything in it, except the bulk storage was flagging as bad karma if I tried, even though off-deed bulk storage bins are free to loot. After patch in an unlocked house off-deed my alt could not use my mains unlocked BSB bin until I added alt at friend checklist at now locked shack door, yet prior to patch the mine door did not give alts rights to the mine storage bin unless I teamed, but after patch seems to allow it. So not sure exactly the loot mechanics are now with the changes.

Again just because you can does not always mean you should is the main concept of the FCC, but it is good to know the rules.

Edited November 21, 2012 by yarnevk

[Keldun 335]

Hmm was under the impression if the fence was "just" in perim it was protected, if the fence ends up on deed it is now owned by the deed and subject to bashing.

Thanks for pointing it out though, will go reread the whole thing again.. damn my insatiable need to study rules...

actually that's what it is, I think I confused something somewhere as well.

To make it absolutely clear: Enclosure in perimeter is protected against bashing.

But if the house is on the other side of the enclosure you can plop your deed over the fence and bash in.

[Theflash 54]

that isnt griefing, any player may make 1x1 houses to protect other players from deeding that specific area since you are going to build something in that area so it is actually in his rights. Darwin doesnt play 24/7 but he still plays often

[silverback 11]

that isnt griefing, any player may make 1x1 houses to protect other players from deeding that specific area since you are going to build something in that area so it is actually in his rights. Darwin doesnt play 24/7 but he still plays often

He seems to be a decent fellow , talk it out properly & you should get better results

[Suntzu 644]

Good work here.

[leaf 283]

Well I was given a solution to this. Since his fence, just happens to be at the end of my perimeter, I can bash it down. Also, the GM informed me that his enclosure is illegal and that he will get in trouble for it. On regards to talking to him, I asked him politely to give me access thru his gate and he trolled me and danced around me. Thanks to everyone that gave feedback to this post.

"the GM informed me that his enclosure is illegal" Um... wut wut? Either it is not an enclosure (houses are not finished although with being forced to redo all houses with roofs/floors, arguable.) or it is an enclosure, or there aren't walls surrounding it.

And the larger the area fenced off, the more repairing that must be done constantly - it'll balance out, either he's active (he is) or they'll fall down. If you really want to get nitpicky, run inside again and build a house. You can't be denied access to your house by his walls, although doing it just to grief Darwin would probably get you smacked by a GM as it's obvious what you did.

I want to hear more about this 'illegal enclosure', details please.

Edited January 1, 2013 by leaf

[ashoof 43]

Darwin is an old established player...the real question is why are you do desperate to take his land and undo his work? Just leave the guy alone.

[Melketh 92]

Yea, Darwin is a reasonably active player, don't mess with his stuff dude, if you want land to call your own, find some that isn't taken.

[Crystl 70]

Yarnevk, they have changed/fixed the deed perimeter code. You can no longer slide a perimeter under a house you do not own the writ to(at least that was my understanding from talking with CA)

yes you can, i have had a neighbor do this, unintentually of course but it still is possible. I tried to repair my gatehouse but couldn't since it was on their perimeter. I since have moved the gatehouse. Edited January 11, 2013 by Crystl