Death To Steppe

[demondan 1,865]

Find the account holder, and ban please. griefing.Sorry for the language in alliance chat.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

Honestly I don't see any problem which could result a ban.

More or less this is real bad behavior but not against the Game Rules.

[Asciana 303]

It's his land and its killing the creatures. Get over it bro. If you dont like it, deed whats left.

[Mattown 349]

yeah.. i actually hate when people did this on the deli steppe

it sucks :/

[Alyeska 2,621]

please please please

Edited October 18, 2012 by Alyeska

[Selva 9]

I hate the " Oh, if u don't like it, deed it... blablbabla rules, rules, rules "

If someone does something non-rp and against the main idea, there's no "problem" because there isn't written in a goddamn RULES PAGE!

Grown up! things doesn't depends soley on rules!.

He owns the place, pays for the upkeep, but that's not justify his griefer behaviour, the corpses are never butcherred, it's griefing, everyone can see it.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Selva

[Mojo 2,095]

Some good butchering skill here

[Claytonic 23]

Killing animals on the steppe that are not fenced in is not greifing

[Lancelot 765]

I recall the same thing happening on the Indy steppes. People would deed huge areas, hire tons of templars and there would be nothing to kill for someone to skill up their fs. I posted in this forum about it but soon got over the idea, going further afield to hunt. It is annoying to see this but until steppes become undeedable there's not much that anyone can do about it.

[Fooligun 591]

Delights at Exodus

Edited October 18, 2012 by Fooligun

[Sklo:D 2,210]

I don't see any solution at the moment. Indeed there is no way to go against such a deed.

The only way is to speak to the mayor.

[Garis 210]

Although it may not be a perfect solution, this perimeter fence will slow the rate of creatures going in considerably. Scale as needed. This doesn't encroach on the landholder's rights to access their deed, as it does not prevent access in any way. There are no gates.

[Cartrip 132]

I hate the " Oh, if u don't like it, deed it... blablbabla rules, rules, rules "

If someone does something non-rp and against the main idea, there's no "problem" because there isn't written in a goddamn RULES PAGE!

Grown up! things doesn't depends soley on rules!.

He owns the place, pays for the upkeep, but that's not justify his griefer behaviour, it's griefing, everyone can see it.

Sadly in an environment where people cannot agree, things do indeed have to fall back on rules. Same in in RL that's the whole reason for laws. I'm not even sure what's going on here - someone killed some rats and packed a few steppe tiles? You may really hate this behaviour but if so why not get off your postern gate and expand that steppe. It's laughably easy now when you can grab 300 mixed grass in an hour or less.

[Mojo 2,095]

I recall the same thing happening on the Indy steppes. People would deed huge areas, hire tons of templars and there would be nothing to kill for someone to skill up their fs. I posted in this forum about it but soon got over the idea, going further afield to hunt. It is annoying to see this but until steppes become undeedable there's not much that anyone can do about it.

Why the heck wouldn't you be able to deed steppe?

Adding more rules to Freedom seems like the wrong direction for Wurm.

[Ronnie 64]

Sadly in an environment where people cannot agree, things do indeed have to fall back on rules. Same in in RL that's the whole reason for laws. I'm not even sure what's going on here - someone killed some rats and packed a few steppe tiles? You may really hate this behaviour but if so why not get off your postern gate and expand that steppe. It's laughably easy now when you can grab 300 mixed grass in an hour or less.

I fully agree, before when players where going on abou this when the deed was placed. I said why not make your own steppe.

But lazy ppl will be lazy and just complain.

Why the heck wouldn't you be able to deed steppe?

Adding more rules to Freedom seems like the wrong direction for Wurm.

kind of silly if such a rule would be passed. I mean whats next? Cant deed over or have trees on deed? Because ppl cant get to them and cut them down?(agreeing with Ezalor)

Its pretty much the same thing.

"OH Cant deed on the steppes for templares to kill everything"

"OH Cant deed have trees on deed because others cant cut them"

Thats what it seems like the players want wurm like. Stop whining that something happend that you dont like.

[Fooligun 591]

More so to create a steppe of that area would take a long time, replacing grass/sand isn't so bad, 1 sand = 4 tiles, 1 dirt = 4 grass tiles(eventually) Steppe isn't like that, else trust me I'd make a huge steppe where I live...

[Garis 210]

Steppe isn't like that, else trust me I'd make a huge steppe where I live...

Steppe is very easy to restore these days. I've been making quite a lot of it in the last two months, ripping out abandoned deeds in my vicinity that used to be steppes but were converted to wooded lots, then left to rot. Here's how:

1. Use sickle to harvest grass
   
2. Clearcut (great for WC skill)
   
3. Use shovel to perform one flatten tick on a tile (not the entire flatten action, just the first tick), which rips up the grass in a 3x3 area.
   
4. Plant steppes grass in a checkerboard style with a solid row of steppes grass on the edges, like so:
   
5. Go on about your business. The steppe grass will spread quickly into the unplanted areas. Any trees that manage to make their way into the unconverted dirt tiles won't be able to spread grass, and are easy to fix later.
   

I sympathize with the local hunters that are dealing with this, but I don't think they're handling the situation as well as they could. For one thing, posting tears here on the forums is like griefer happy hour. Somewhere, someone figured out a loophole in the rules and is using it for kicks, and you just gave them their paycheck. Well done.

We don't need GM intervention, or changes to the rules regarding deeds. If you want to constrict flow of creatures onto a deed, build a fence in its perimeter to discourage (but not prevent) foot traffic into the deed. Leave some room for the deed owner to get in without passing through gates. If you want more hunting grounds build your own and hope that nobody deeds it.

Freedom without a real Wild server does not offer any other options than the ones above.

[Selva 9]

The owner have lucky there's no PVP in Celebration or i bet his deed's would be in the first line of hunters.

[Hussars 511]

Continuation of this thread?

While I don't agree with the behavior, calling for a ban on an account still wouldn't solve the issue being complained about since the deed is placed and paid for. While this could be seen to violate the FCC, so could the calling for a ban on the account without the deed owner specifically and actively harassing specific people (or any other action considered to be "ban-able" for). The flip side, the FCC is prefaced with a statement that it is not a "Rule", which means it can only be encouraged, not enforced.

Again, vague rules provide a lot of leeway for both sides of the argument, either this is allowable or it is not. Not everyone considers the same concepts, or supports the same beliefs of what is allowable under a "play nice" intent.

::Disclaimer:: Not connected to Code Club AB in any way beyond as a paying customer, my opinion is only my own and just that, my opinion. I do not present myself, or my opinion, in any capacity beyond the same as any other player.

[Sarcaticous 338]

Someone did something you didn't like and they did it by the rules. They simply placed a deed. Fence around the deed and leave access in and out of the deed. You can even fence his perimiter off from his deed as long as he has a way in and out. The way in and out or the deed access is not specified so leave a one tile wide path into the fenced off area from whatever direction that pleases you. No griefing, within the rules, end of problem for the most part.

Then when the GMs are called in as I'm sure they will you can all get it worked out.

BTW, that picture Fooligun posted in #10 of Exodus desert has been there a very long time. My friend is the one that planted the trees in the distance and that small deed was there when he planted his deed and trees.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Sarcaticous

[Sir Arowhun 473]

The general opinion of this issue seems to be "its bad but its not against the rules, so we just have to deal with it." I think that if something is bad, it should be against the rules. While Freedom is a sandbox, its a community sandbox. People should respect others with what they build. Something has to be done to stop people from doing this or it will never be stopped. Sensitive areas like the steppes and deserts need some form of protection so that they can be used for what they were created for: hunting. Community resources should be regulated or else the tragedy of the commons will occur when people exploit them until they are useless. This has happened in Wurm countless times, not just with steppes and deserts.

I personally think that Freedom should have "national parks" that cannot be deeded and cannot be altered without GM consent. This might seem a little over the top to some, but its the only solution that will guarantee that this doesn't happen again. This system will prevent people from abusing fragile areas while still allowing people to improve them for everyone.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Sir Arowhun

[Nephilim 26]

Xsyon tried a deal with it approach to ppl doing what ever they wanted. look how that went. some ppl cant be left at home alone.

[Ronnie 64]

your allowed to place a deed where ever you want. And The FCC is nothing more then a GUIDE LINE! Please read the first lines.

[Sir Arowhun 473]

your allowed to place a deed where ever you want. And The FCC is nothing more then a GUIDE LINE! Please read the first lines.

I understand this. I am saying that the GMs are not doing enough. A set of optional rules is not enough to prevent griefing. Something needs to be done that forces people to respect common resources.

[Fooligun 591]

Steppe is very easy to restore these days. I've been making quite a lot of it in the last two months, ripping out abandoned deeds in my vicinity that used to be steppes but were converted to wooded lots, then left to rot. Here's how:

1. Use sickle to harvest grass
   
2. Clearcut (great for WC skill)
   
3. Use shovel to perform one flatten tick on a tile (not the entire flatten action, just the first tick), which rips up the grass in a 3x3 area.
   
4. Plant steppes grass in a checkerboard style with a solid row of steppes grass on the edges, like so:
   
5. Go on about your business. The steppe grass will spread quickly into the unplanted areas. Any trees that manage to make their way into the unconverted dirt tiles won't be able to spread grass, and are easy to fix later.
   

I sympathize with the local hunters that are dealing with this, but I don't think they're handling the situation as well as they could. For one thing, posting tears here on the forums is like griefer happy hour. Somewhere, someone figured out a loophole in the rules and is using it for kicks, and you just gave them their paycheck. Well done.

We don't need GM intervention, or changes to the rules regarding deeds. If you want to constrict flow of creatures onto a deed, build a fence in its perimeter to discourage (but not prevent) foot traffic into the deed. Leave some room for the deed owner to get in without passing through gates. If you want more hunting grounds build your own and hope that nobody deeds it.

Freedom without a real Wild server does not offer any other options than the ones above.

Thats pretty clever... Well I guess I'm off to make steppe!