Gypsy Caravans As An Independant Lifestyle.

[Silures 91]

You builds your house with a nice garden, all secure in a walled enclosure, competing with or complimenting the joneses next door, be it in a village environment or a cabin in the woods. Multistory houses and new features aplenty on the way too which is great. This is Wurm, as attractive as this and the game may be it seems the standard and only way to go about things with total or desired self sufficiency.

Other fundamental ways of living needn't have too much coding involved but the more creative the better I expect in the longer term and the rewards could completely diversify Wurm from within at little dev cost. How about traveller bands as an alternative to village lifestyles. That could be as easy to set up as making a horse drawn caravan with a few integrated things like an oven and fsb and a couple of tiles inside to add beds, etc. Give traveller bands the ability to ally and even act as PMK and you've started a new independant and equaly rewarding culture on Wurm who's lore would grow as the game does. I think the parallel to actual traveller culture could be striking, in the manner that it seems like it would develop in game, bands becoming insular, protective and strong, coveting their lyfestyle and tricks and enriching the game.

I can think of other similar ways of breaking the mould. Not many seem as easy to add or worthwhile as the caravan option at present. Cave dwelling and ship living, even The Descent and Waterworld style as alternative lifestyles are a long way off but worth doing something about. I love the idea of werewolf and vampire existances in the game. Serious perks for the werewolf that can keep their affliction a secret and rip Wurmians to shreds by night (looks sideways at Baldeagleog). Equally secretive vampire cults that add a sinister folk edge to an otherwise idillic safe Wurm setting and carrying a witchhunt reaction at the mere sniff of them from the average villager, likewise covens meeting in woods, dark arts among WL people. Loads of potential for alt lyfestyles in Wurm if done well but how many are as easy to start as the traveller option?

[Asciana 303]

As long as they cost 10s and you cant hold a caravan ownership form and a deed at the same time top stop people just using them as a convenient mobile storage device. Sounds great.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Asciana

[ashoof 43]

+1

always wanted a caravan and sea-trader type lifestyle!

[Lolly1 206]

+1 on this idea... minus the werewolves and vamps.

Although you can still do this in some respect.. pack up a large cart and horses, take enough nails with you to build a small yard for when you are ready to settle for a little bit. Trees already in abundance in most places. Also found on my travels that there are many unused ovens and forges from abandoned and rotted deeds so taking one with you may not be as necessary. A bed that can be picked up or taken with you once you are ready to move on is a must though.

If this ever comes into play... guess who is going to be going for a little wander

Edited September 27, 2012 by Lolly1

[Bart 954]

If this acts like a deed form it would be interesting to see some form of guard mechanic also, as many caravans would travel with guards to discourage robbers

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

-1, as people would just found one someplace, pillage the land for resources then move on elsewhere. With a deed, this is fine as they have to either live there in the pillaged land or buy another deed to move on. But with this and effectively having a mobile deed whenever, wherever, you would allow people to stripmine/log land and be able to store the resources somewhere 100% secure wherever they like, which seems kind of idiotic to me

[AgentOneSixSixSeven 9]

+1. Just simply a great idea.

[Jarosz 189]

in PVP this would just be used as a mobile spawn point to mount raids...

+1

[Seara 686]

If this acts like a deed form it would be interesting to see some form of guard mechanic also, as many caravans would travel with guards to discourage robbers

We would have to be careful with this. The concept of mobile / transportable templars seems way over-powered. "Hey everyone; bring your caravan guards to X and we'll take out the Troll King."

Edited September 28, 2012 by Seara

[Silures 91]

Interesting negative points there Aetherwaker. While I can't really predict the effects on the surroundings, the idea is more to create cultures that choose to live in tune with their surroundings like the Gypsys of folklore than creating a wasteland trailerpark of debris and burning carts

In practice you'd probably get some different types of ethics going on. Bands loathe to even cut a tree for the sakes of asthetics and then replanting should be common if just for the appreciation of what they're trying to get out of the lifestyle. With the extreme other that you mention, what would clearcutting and stripmining achieve for these people unless they are trying to create some obscene production line for imaginary huge wooden goods while living on a steaming crap pile.

I haven't thought of caravans as being deeds as such, more like robust lockable carts or small buildings, destroyable but defendable, especially in number by something like gatehopping as defence. I also wouldn't like to see them too safe, having to rely on allies or strong communities to resist any bigger attack. The point being the achievement of a mutual respect between villages and the travellers should be held unless there are greviances big enough to make a collective enemy there. I'd add that I think caravans could have an allergy to deeds, having to be kept off them. Bands could be taxed, making up for owners who would otherwise buy a deed. Really I haven't put much thought in to details but as an easily achievable concept to start that adds to Wurm, I like it a lot.

One negative point I can see is the logistics of a band moving to a new location. With a lot of members being offline, the transportation of horses and animals with the caravans, carts and moveable posessions, not quite sure if a band could just up and relocate too easily lol.

What would really help is a few skills and services only able to be provided by the traveller bands. An introduction of an alternate way of Wurming like this would benefit from at least a few concessions to help it get started. If it was just introduced as is, it would probably be a novelty with those first interested just moving on to ship building or making a homestead. I can't expect a new set of Gypsy deities to help kickstart this but if we were wise in it's introduction, we'd want it attractive and rewarding. One or two things like a nice Gypsy enchant or two, a slow decaying meal type (fungus based of course ), greenman meditation path, advanced HCs, slow decaying metalware. Just ideas, I'd just hate to see it happen with a big vaccuum in the centre of it, having no purpose or aims, some bored caravanners wondering what they can do.

Really glad this has had a positive response. I'd take caravans being introduced without any of the above rather than not see it happen at all. To have it introduced initially with a bit of extra thought in to give it legs is almost too much to ask, still can dream. Ideas, criticism and comments most welcome.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Silures

[Protunia 735]

-1 No moving Deeds.

[Silures 91]

No deeds involved as far as I can see, deedless bands, with the equivalent to a village chat for the band, having allies in other bands and PMK capable if it's feasible. Can't imagine why not. If some kind of token is needed to be Wurmlike, perhaps you could drain the bandolier's caravan for $ after breaking a wall, idk. If not that then whatever works which is why the ideas thread instead of going directly to Saroman.

Anyway, would you want to expand on that thoughtful post? I'm of the opinion that whatever embelishments you add to the standard build a house system of Wurm, without finding ways to add variety like this it's just finely polishing a 2d, Java chained glass ceiling.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Silures

[Makarus 458]

silures and aether both have good posts, imo.

i'd like them deeded, as it would cut down on the spamming of caravans. no guards, as they would be horribly disruptive on local wildlife.

They could be disruptive like Aether said, but with some thought they couldbe balanced.

the best suggest imo, is the ability to make a floating nation of liveaboard vessels.

I'd deed some ocean land and slam down a custom island and throw out a ocean nation. maybe some water servers with dotted islands spread far apart.

anyways +1.5

[Martynas5 435]

-1, as people would just found one someplace, pillage the land for resources then move on elsewhere. With a deed, this is fine as they have to either live there in the pillaged land or buy another deed to move on. But with this and effectively having a mobile deed whenever, wherever, you would allow people to stripmine/log land and be able to store the resources somewhere 100% secure wherever they like, which seems kind of idiotic to me

[Silures 91]

Doodles

I probably won't continue with these yet but would like to do a few war machines, maybe they will get put in.

[BjornYngvar 35]

Why would you want gypsies?

why

[joedobo 1,187]

+1 I like it

All we need:

1. Smaller containers that use bulk bin code and we can pick up (assuming they are not too heavy).

2. The ability to pick up and plant furniture items.

3. A way to secure your animals, no player or AI mob can touch them while your offline.

4. A way to secure the wagon while your offline, again no player or npc can mess with the wagon while your offline.

I'd pay 10s to buy a gyspy camper and another 1s upkeep a month to set up a little tented area where furniture is planted.

[BjornYngvar 35]

I think the gypsy campers should work like deeds in a way.

There should be various sizes with varying levels of upkeep. To use your bed you'd have to 'hitch' the camper so it won't move, similar to mooring a ship. As far as having rights I think you should have to hire a guard to travel with your caravan.

Before anyone gets in a tizzy about traveling guards: These guards will never aggress animals or players, simply enforce rules regarding the caravan (i.e. with deeds if you have no guards, your rules don't apply and non citizens can do whatever they want. But as soon as you get a guard they enforce the rules).

[Bart 954]

I think the gypsy campers should work like deeds in a way.

There should be various sizes with varying levels of upkeep. To use your bed you'd have to 'hitch' the camper so it won't move, similar to mooring a ship. As far as having rights I think you should have to hire a guard to travel with your caravan.

Before anyone gets in a tizzy about traveling guards: These guards will never aggress animals or players, simply enforce rules regarding the caravan (i.e. with deeds if you have no guards, your rules don't apply and non citizens can do whatever they want. But as soon as you get a guard they enforce the rules).

This.

Or possibly a limited perimeter of 5 tiles from the central(?) caravan in which guards will attack enemy players, or maybe they could respond to help calls like tower guards.

I'd also have a limit of 2 guards to stop it being overpowered, turning up outside someones deed with 20 guards or something.

We would have to be careful with this. The concept of mobile / transportable templars seems way over-powered. "Hey everyone; bring your caravan guards to X and we'll take out the Troll King."

Templars are already programmed not to attack uniques and neither will tower guards, so dont see this as much of a problem.

[Silures 91]

Why would you want gypsies?

why

The last person who said that caused a lot of trouble It's not that I want Gypsies over mermen but they offer a perfect model for a breath of fresh air in to living options in Wurm don't they? The first of several I hope. It would be just as good to take the model and rework it so it doesn't resemble anything that exists in real life much, the real issue being that the Gypsy based model offers a very easy way so we can either take it as an opportunity or not. A big positive part of keeping this loosely based on Gypsies is the culture and myth around the real life parallel.

I think I'm as cautious as anyone that it'd be a minor disaster putting a system in like this in unseen ways (or trailerparks) but if I've witnessed anything in Wurm dev history it's an immense amount of tweaking to make things work. So to just introduce caravans or to go further and steer it as another way to play Wurm and adding to the whole is ultimately the dev's choice. I say introduce caravans and one or two concessions then leave it to the baying crowds to decide if it grows or shrinks. Having a good time in Wurm is what matters most.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Silures

[Dralor 9]

Iv been interested in something like this since I started playing Wurm.

Ideally I would like it to have 3 upgradable slots. "could decide what to build there" ie forge, bsb, oven, large chest etc "limited to 2 of the same thing"

possibly a space for a bed or even bedroll.

Imo it should cost 10silver to buy like a deed "buy the rights to have it" and there should be a "road tax" 1-5 silver per month "to be determined by the devs"

No guards, No special things for animals etc. If you want to protect yourself get your FS up, if you want to protect your horses make a small pen.

Im a freedom player so this is from a freedom server perspective.

Obvisouly there would need to be tweeks to make it work nicely on epic.

[Sarcaticous 338]

-1

[leaf 283]

I've thought about doing the gypsy thing in wurm too, i'm all for it. With roads protected and major roads all over, why not promote their use and enhance player trading a bit at the same time.

[Warlander 2,730]

+1

I think caravans should have mobile and stationary form. To turn from mobile to stationary form you need 3X3 free space, and caravan will turn into something like house with small pen space and up to 3 constructions, +caravan as big BSB, FSB and chest.

[Battlepaw 585]

This can work with existing mechanics, in some respects, but I would like to see some sort of mobile sleep mechanic. A tent mechanic would be nice, its also been hashed out in several suggestion topics.

As for a "house" wagon, I think it should be about as hard to build as a cog, in terms of difficulty. Perhaps some small on-board BSB capability, but nowhere NEAR the capacity of a normal one perhaps about 1/3 the storage capacity. Also they travel MUCH slower than normal wagons. Comparison, is that a normal large cart goes about 11.50 with normal horses this would go around 8.00 with the same horses. Of course ya could get decent horses to go on it, with gear etc if ya wanted to go faster.

Also, Wicker fence gates. They lock with large locks so that you can keep re-using the lock. Wicker fences decay fast, and I think they do pen animals now, mostly I just use them for climbing mountains, they really don't have many other uses.

That way you could pen in your horses when you stop, and the fences will be gone in short order, not practical on a pvp server, but I doubt I would see "caravans" on Chaos server, the "wagon houses" would be used as mobile bases here.

I'm completely against mobile deeds however, both on PvP servers and on Freedom. There is no end to the problems they would cause.