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Keldun

Add A Yard Area To A Writ In Addition To The Building Area.

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I got this idea while reading this thread:
/>http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/67257-some-things-on-freedom-that-must-change-imho-beginner-related/

The idea is basically that in addition to the structure itself a writ could control an attached yard as well.

It's basically a mechanic similar to the enclosure rule, just that it is enforced automatically by the game.

That would give free players, new players and other hermit types actual security instead of the fake security of the enclosure rule, without reducing the need for premium or deeds.

It would work by having a "plan yard" option next to the "plan building" that gives sufficient room of freedom. It could be limited by saying the yard can't be larger then twice(?) the building, otherwise you can't finish the plan.

It could also be extended for deed owners to be able to plan yards on their deeds without any buildings to give to a citizen. This would both improve the Mayor ability to restrict the citizen and give the citizen more freedom of action in their area.

So what do you think?

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Umm.... It could be mini deed 10x10 or less max for f2p, it will last forever but if you don't login for a week it will be gone.

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Yard size limited by Highest Nature subskill maybe?

I don't understand how that would work.

"Oh shoot I suck at identifying plants and farming, so I can't have a yard."

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Well currently house size is limited by carpentry, my original idea was to have yard size limited by overall nature skill, but thats too hard to get high, so whatever your highest sub-nature skill is would calculated into yard size in the same way that carpentry affects it.

"Oh shoot I suck at identifying plants and farming, so I can't have a yard."

Nature also includes Taming, Animal Husbandry, Meditation, Forestry, Gardening.... a multitude of skills that could be higher than "identifying plants and farming"

Meditation for one... can be grinded up to at least 20 very fast.

Animal husbandry and taming can also.

Gardening takes no time at all, just plant flowers.

many people cultivate grapes/olives etc... thats Forestry.

Your argument is like saying "i cant make bricks so i can't have a stone house"... no, of course you can't have a stone house unless you have a neighbour who can make one, or you bother to raise the neccesary skills as is intended in the game...

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Anyway, I thought about limiting it by skill but there is none that really makes sense, carpentry doesn't even make much sense for stone house. In the end tying the yard to the house seemed the best choice.

Err... -1, there's a reason we have houses and fences.

Err, so what? Not a clue what you are trying to say here.

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Make it span 3 tiles from the exterior facing walls.

No one but the writ holder can build, terraform, farm, chop trees, build/destroy fences/houses.

With 20 carp, you can build a 8 tiles house, so in a 2x4 house you will end with a 8x10 tiles protected area, or a 3x3 house without a corner, a 9x9 area.

Note that is not a deed, so no templars, no protection again decay, no auto fill lamps, etc.

Make that writ protected area unable to be planted over existing paved roads.

Salu2.

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make instead that a house and fence that follows the enclouse rule that you need to be on the writ to fence bash?

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Nature also includes Taming, Animal Husbandry, Meditation, Forestry, Gardening.... a multitude of skills that could be higher than "identifying plants and farming"

Meditation for one... can be grinded up to at least 20 very fast.

Animal husbandry and taming can also.

Gardening takes no time at all, just plant flowers.

many people cultivate grapes/olives etc... thats Forestry.

Your argument is like saying "i cant make bricks so i can't have a stone house"... no, of course you can't have a stone house unless you have a neighbour who can make one, or you bother to raise the neccesary skills as is intended in the game...

Let me be more clear. I meant I thought it was a stupid suggestion/limitation I was just trying to be nice about it.

Why should you have to have nature skills to have a yard? It should just be tied to the size of the house. No more than 2x the size of the house. 2x2 house? 8 tiles of yard max. 3x3 house? 18 tiles of yard max. etc.

Anyway, I thought about limiting it by skill but there is none that really makes sense, carpentry doesn't even make much sense for stone house. In the end tying the yard to the house seemed the best choice.

It does make sense though. You don't have to have the same carp level to BUILD a house as you do to plan it. The idea behind the carp skill is that you know enough about carpentry to build a solid frame for the house to be built on. Stone houses are wood frame too.

Any idiot can nail wood planks to a frame (low skill carp building buildings they can't plan) but it takes someone with more skill to make a house that won't fall down.

Edited by BjornYngvar

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I like this idea, having a fence area penciled in to a writ would be a good thing. :)

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+1 I'd limit yard size with a exponential decay curve. This might be 3 or 4 yard tiles per a house tile for small houses and 2 yard tiles per house tile for very large houses.

Having the ability to clearly assign houses, furniture, fences, tools and resource to a specific player would open the door for some very cool features.

1. Wurm could packaged up a select numbers of items while you take a break from the game. When you come back, just make a new house with a yard and retrieve your goods from storage. In UO they kept all my inventory, bank and bluebeetle pack space for multiple toons in storage while I was gone for around 3 years! I recently went back and tried it out (during one of Wurm's UGLY! winters). I was pleasantly surprised how all my stuff was still there.

2. For those who its decided have quit, apply exponentially increasing decay to all fence, furniture, and buildings. Package up all tools, maybe even their crafting resource. After some more time passes delete the resources. There should be a limited number of tools that will always be kept as long as the toon exists.

3. Instant bash bonus for stuff in your yard or house.

4. No more silly 500 tile enclosures.

5. My favorite part of this....no more subjective GM ruling about enclosures. You can bash any fence you want because game mechanics for yards and deeds would protect all other fences. If the game lets you do it, you can. This mindset is the way it should be.

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+1 for freedom (makes people without a deed have the ability to enjoy the game)

-1 for epic No point in it.

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Don't deeds currently do this?

Unless I'm wrong, we're talking about 20s, 10 to prem, 10 for a form and quite a bit of upkeep on the smallest size deed.

Edited by Kadore

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-1 Reads like a free deed to me. I have always liked "Deed it or Lose it". It's simple and it works.

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Make it span 3 tiles from the exterior facing walls.

I purposefully didn't make it a fixed radius, because one it's too big and second it causes problems. Different people wouldn't be able to build close together, especially when they don't want a yard in the first place, making it customable and limited is better. Sandbox players like their freedom.

make instead that a house and fence that follows the enclouse rule that you need to be on the writ to fence bash?

detecting an enclosure programatically isn't quite that simple. And yards would give you the option to not have one as well.

+1 for freedom (makes people without a deed have the ability to enjoy the game)

-1 for epic No point in it.

No need to separate here, it wouldn't hurt on epic, your enemies simply wouldn't care, but you'd have it a bit easier to give permissions to your friends.

Don't deeds currently do this?

Unless I'm wrong, we're talking about 20s, 10 to prem, 10 for a form and quite a bit of upkeep on the smallest size deed.

Not quite.

Some people don't want to pay even that much and deeds are quite inflexible, sometimes it is not possible to use them everywhere because of other deeds and you need to build offdeed, maybe you want to build a single building a stretch from your deed. For all those cases there is the enclosure rule to protect them, yards would make it just a bit clearer and easier for players and GMs.

Also deeds were mainly meant to be villages, while writs are used to divide the buildings between different citizens. Yards would make it possible to divide the outside as well.

-1 Reads like a free deed to me. I have always liked "Deed it or Lose it". It's simple and it works.

Not at all, the enclosure rule already protects the area, you get none of the other benefits of a deed, you just get more permissions to give for fence use and wall bashing.

Edited by Keldun

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The enclosure rule works in balance with deeds because enclosures require player effort to construct and maintain fences and walls that decay over time far faster then buildings.

Adding a non-decaying magical yard to building writs which controls land around the building provides that land control without the counterbalancing player effort. It is getting a mini-deed for free.

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The enclosure rule works in balance with deeds because enclosures require player effort to construct and maintain fences and walls that decay over time far faster then buildings.

Adding a non-decaying magical yard to building writs which controls land around the building provides that land control without the counterbalancing player effort. It is getting a mini-deed for free.

All this is based on assumption that are wrong. The OP never said Yard's would give you a no decay.

Plain and simple. Yard = enclosure without the need for GM to interpret situations. No more asking if you can bashing something because game mechanics would stop you if the construction belongs to an active player (its on deed or in a yard).

Also, yards would let the devs assign flags to all objects in yard for a specific person. If said person quits we could save some of that stuff for said person or even delete things supper fast. Thier is nothing worse then coming back to a game to find out all your stuff you worked to aquire/build is gone. Obviously we can't keep land and buildings around ( well we could if houseing was instanced :) ) but we can keep tools and resources in an archive.

Yards would take way the ability for high skill vets to make giant enclosures. Its already been discoused once if we should limit enclosure size.

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Sorry, but have to agree with Protunia, and give this a big -1. Besides the deed it or lose it part, there would be no easy way to make houses close together in a village with these rules. And Rolf isn't about to set up special rules for houses just for players that don't want to pay.

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I like the concept (particularly the citizen right on deed part), but aside from the many potential problems that may come out of this, honestly, what interest does Rolf have in breaking a leg coding game enforcement of the enclosure rules just to make it easier for people to continue NOT giving him money? Another thing; the advantage of the current enclosure situation is that the "fake security" of the enclosure rule makes people less reliant on it. Thirdly, because enclosure violations are evaluated by a GM it's easy to tell a legit case from enclosure abuse; an automated system can't tell if the builder is trying to make a small farm or is fencing off a path or clay spot. Houses can already be used for griefing-like purposes; tack a protected enclosure area onto that and you suddenly have a potentially massive protected estate.

Edited by EliasTheCrimson

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-1 BUY A DEED!

I never though i would agree with Protunia, But on this I do.

And even without a deed there is the simple fenced in area + house for anti-bashing by rules.

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/7-game-rules/

It is illegal to break any fence that does not belong to you AND is also a part of an enclosure.

Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area, composed of fences (excluding hedges and woven fences), gates or walls and attached to or surrounding a completed intact house. Any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area.

Edited by axeblade346

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Just allow us to have holes inside houses again (so a ring shaped house, say for example 4x4, with a 2x2 hole in the center that would be the yard), so you can have the yard inside. No need for anything complex then, it just requires a currently unnecessary restriction on house shapes to be removed.

It was proposed not to long ago in this suggestion: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/65934-bring-back-the-doughnut-shaped-house/

Edited by Ecrir

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