Hell Horses Suggestion

[GravityDog 41]

I suspect any change will affect both. So it shuld be carefully considered and tested.

[MrGARY 12,421]

The main change imo that is needed for hell horses, has to do with them being harder to kill via archery unless you can sit there face-shotting them. Balancing their armor against archery won't affect PvE servers at all.

[Alyeska 2,621]

-1 to any nerf to anything becuase it needs to be balanced for pvp

No matter how ridiculously unbalanced it is in pvp or whatever, pvers should not have to suffer nerf after nerf after nerf for the sake of the pvp servers. When Rolf decides to seperate the two codes completely then you get a +1.. but untill then I will oppose any such change. If it's that bad, just remove them from the pvp servers altogether. But don't change them.

[BrQQQ 2,854]

to be very honest, I don´t really see how this will affect PvE so badly

[GravityDog 41]

I think it is mostly a reaction to past super nerfs like the pet CR nerf.

I would agree that as long as they are only nerfed a reasonable amount and are still better than other mounts there will be only a moderate affect to PVE.

If they get a big fat nerf? PVE and PVP will all complain.

[Alyeska 2,621]

to be very honest, I don´t really see how this will affect PvE so badly

[Gone420 609]

"Whats that guys? You dont want Hell horses to have such good glance rate against arrows?..Well...might as well...REMOVE ALL HELL HORSES."

Rolfs thought process when people ask for slight nerfs/tweaks

[Tekari 133]

Oh please... not another nerf of something because it might be unbalanced in PVP... I love the hell horses since they add variety to the very few possible enemies in PVE once you reach 70 fighting.

to be very honest, I don´t really see how this will affect PvE so badly

How many enemies are out there for high-lvl fighters apart from the hell horses? One type... trolls... and the occasional champ something.

And although I never pvp'ed in Wurm (and I never will) I doubt that it has such a big impact. And iirc you receive a constant damage from the hell horse when ridden which should be a big enough disadvantage if you ask me... not to mention all the other disadvantages already mentioned.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Tekari

[Zakerak 442]

to be very honest, I don´t really see how this will affect PvE so badly

Hell horses on PvE are challenge.

- Only stronger fighters can kill them and even them can get nice beating/burning in process. So no easy meat as normal horses, cows and bulls.

- Leading them on longer distance is real challenge. Try to lead hell horse from north east end on indy to south west. You will be attacked by leaded hell horse every 50-100 tiles. You have to stop leading, keep some distance, "no target" and heal self. In your way you will meet a lot of towns with templars, where you cant stop to heal, you have to ride through and out of town (still under attack) to stop leading and heal yourself. I did this more than once and I can say 10 cottons is not enough for such adventure.

- Breeding hell horses are challenge. No other creature I breeded, attacked me at last once a day. Now I'm close to 5 speeder hell horses and I'm breeding bad blood line too. With 4 bad traits +1 good/neutral trait atm. It is much harder than breeding for good traits. Because unwanted good traits cannot be removed by some spell, but only by butchering.

- Riding red hell horses are fun and challenge. They are fast and you do not need afraid some stupid spider kill horse under you. Of course, your horse can kill you, if you not react fast enough

- Using younger hell horses to drag cart is double fun and challenge.

- I can return some breeded hell horses back to wild and I know, they will not be killed by first templar. Instead they will prepare some hard and hot times to them.

There is much more PvE activity hell horses can be used to and most of them are challenging. But I do not want to produce tall wall of text.

If hell horses will be nerfed, all this will vanish and only another decorative horse will left there. PvP degraded all our pets to decorative creatures already. I do not like to see how PvP will steal our hell horse challenge too.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Zakerak

[BrQQQ 2,854]

Oh please... not another nerf of something because it might be unbalanced in PVP... I love the hell horses since they add variety to the very few possible enemies in PVE once you reach 70 fighting.

How many enemies are out there for high-lvl fighters apart from the hell horses? One type... trolls... and the occasional champ something.

And although I never pvp'ed in Wurm (and I never will) I doubt that it has such a big impact. And iirc you receive a constant damage from the hell horse when ridden which should be a big enough disadvantage if you ask me... not to mention all the other disadvantages already mentioned.

Hell horses have their disadvantages, like the damage you get. I have been hunting all day yesterday on a hell horse and I kept getting like a couple dmg wounds every once in a while, which doesn't really affect me.

There are currently two major advantages of hell horses over normal horses. The first is that they are stronger. The second is that they have a constant speed (meaning it doesn't slow down randomly like normal horses). I give my wild hell horse some half decent gear, and it goes a constant 27km/h (or if I give it to a 5 speed trait hell horse, it goes about 36km/h). 27km/h is about as fast as a 4 speed trait horse, going at its slowest.

Now imagine being on a pvp server, going somewhere on horse with your friend. A single enemy on hell horse appears, hits your and your friends horse once on the head with a med maul which will probably bring the horse to wounded or bleeding, while you guys hit his hell horse maybe once or twice and it will probably still be at hurt.

He can just move away, heal his horse within 20 seconds, and get back to you guys onn a fully healed hell horse.

This combined with the great speeds of a 5 speed trait hell horse almost make you invulnerable because you can get away from almost anything.

In bigger pvps, more enemies start showing up on hell horses, meaning you will focus more on killing some hell horses rather than to pvp.

The fix for this is to make them weaker, so even if you are going nearly 40km/h on a hell horse, people should easily be able to archer your horse like they can with normal horses. And in bigger pvps, people will have to focus less on horse killing and more on fighting each other.

While I don't think that pve has to receive the same fix, if it was really just coded that they become less strong and nothing else, I don't think it will matter a lot.

Hell horses on PvE are challenge.

- Only stronger fighters can kill them and even them can get nice beating/burning in process. So no easy meat as normal horses, cows and bulls.

- Leading them on longer distance is real challenge. Try to lead hell horse from north east end on indy to south west. You will be attacked by leaded hell horse every 50-100 tiles. You have to stop leading, keep some distance, "no target" and heal self. In your way you will meet a lot of towns with templars, where you cant stop to heal, you have to ride through and out of town (still under attack) to stop leading and heal yourself. I did this more than once and I can say 10 cottons is not enough for such adventure.

- Breeding hell horses are challenge. No other creature I breeded, attacked me at last once a day. Now I'm close to 5 speeder hell horses and I'm breeding bad blood line too. With 4 bad traits +1 good/neutral trait atm. It is much harder than breeding for good traits. Because unwanted good traits cannot be removed by some spell, but only by butchering.

- Riding red hell horses are fun and challenge. They are fast and you do not need afraid some stupid spider kill horse under you. Of course, your horse can kill you, if you not react fast enough

- Using younger hell horses to drag cart is double fun and challenge.

- I can return some breeded hell horses back to wild and I know, they will not be killed by first templar. Instead they will prepare some hard and hot times to them.

There is much more PvE activity hell horses can be used to and most of them are challenging. But I do not want to produce tall wall of text.

If hell horses will be nerfed, all this will vanish and only another decorative horse will left there. PvP degraded all our pets to decorative creatures already. I do not like to see how PvP will steal our hell horse challenge too.

The only nerf I mentioned is that they should become weaker (meaning they take more damage in one hit). Only 2 things in your list have something to do with that.

Another thing, you should consider grinding taming skill and tame hell horses instead of leading or riding them while they're aggressive

Edited September 26, 2012 by BrQQQ

[Zakerak 442]

Of course, you have YOUR RIGHT. And even if not, truth can be always modified little to fit to you, purposely not looking on interests of others.

I do not want to turn this topic into PvE vs PvP war, so do not expect more votes from me here. Even so, we peacefull Freedomers have no chance against PvPiers skilled in griefing and crying, (IRCing).

Now imagine being on a pvp server, ...

I can imagine pvp server without hell horses. Your problem is solved. All have the same conditions and you can kill each other as you like it again.

Another thing, you should consider grinding taming skill and tame hell horses instead of leading or riding them while they're aggressive

Yes, I can tame hell horse for riding, but where is fun part in riding green and friendly hell horse???

Edited September 26, 2012 by Zakerak

[BrQQQ 2,854]

Well I will say that I don't want the nerf to be applied on Freedom. Any pvp related nerfs shouldn't affect Freedom (except maybe Chaos, but I can't say anything about them). I just think that if Rolf is unwilling for some reason to split the code, it shouldn't matter that much for PvE (in this case).

[Protunia 735]

-1

[Joanavon 553]

Just change them so that if hit by players melee weapon they buck the rider and run off.

[KaiH 1,126]

-1

and what is your take to balance hell horses?

[Redd 4,281]

Just remove them from PvP servers. I reallllyyy dont want them on Chaos, but yet we have them :/

[BrokenSanity 717]

It still seems kinda strange that Hellhorses are pretty much solely a buff for WL to be honest. I mean, BL priests are the only priests who can't tame, and even the non priests have a taming penalty so it's near impossible to have a reliably tamed Horse even at 50+ taming with 90+ql seeds.

[belthize 438]

It still seems kinda strange that Hellhorses are pretty much solely a buff for WL to be honest. I mean, BL priests are the only priests who can't tame, and even the non priests have a taming penalty so it's near impossible to have a reliably tamed Horse even at 50+ taming with 90+ql seeds.

Or Mag or Fo priest. Granted dom'ed/tamed pets were so nerfed that having to choose between a combat pet and a HH is a really easy decision.

Edit: I get that what I wrote means Mag Fo priests can and will choose to ride HH's. I was making (badly) a broader point that the random addition of 'ooh shineys' has slowly created a bizarre disconnect between balance, original classes and reality.

Edited October 6, 2012 by belthize

[GravityDog 41]

It still seems kinda strange that Hellhorses are pretty much solely a buff for WL to be honest. I mean, BL priests are the only priests who can't tame, and even the non priests have a taming penalty so it's near impossible to have a reliably tamed Horse even at 50+ taming with 90+ql seeds.

Yes thats totaly unfair that you are forced to priest and can't tame. You shuld have some other advantage like being able to pick locks or make zombies or something.

[darthryan 588]

Make hell horses need the same taming skill as normal horses, the only requirement is the body control. Imo, at 31 body control, you SHOULD be able to have a nice advantage. Maybe also make it so that hell horses aren't insanely hard to shoot.

[BrokenSanity 717]

Yes thats totaly unfair that you are forced to priest and can't tame. You shuld have some other advantage like being able to pick locks or make zombies or something.

Before Hellhorses were added no one was moaning about any pet imbalance, because there was a balanced layout for religions. Lib priests had zombies, everyone else could tame and there was the ability to dominate if you were mag. That's balance. However after the hellhorse addition, this created a clear advantage to being able to tame instead of rebirthing. So, as I said this is a WL buff. Don't dispute this by stating other unrelated things BL can do, as these were not considered a problem previously.

Besides, priests not being able to use Hellhorses was only one aspect of my post. BLers in general have a much harder time taming them compared to WL, which is another reason Hellhorses are a bigger advantage for WL than BL.

Are you honestly going to disagree with me on this that the addition of Hellhorses has benefited WL far more than BL?

Edited October 6, 2012 by BrokenSanity

[Alyeska 2,621]

Before Hellhorses were added no one was moaning about any imbalance, because there was a balanced layout for religions.

[BrokenSanity 717]

oh god, that is just so hilarious it hurts

Edited October 6, 2012 by BrokenSanity

[MrGARY 12,421]

...and even the non priests have a taming penalty so it's near impossible to have a reliably tamed Horse even at 50+ taming with 90+ql seeds.

You know what's funny, as a whitelighter, I struggled to get a good reliable tame on hell horses with over 50 taming and 91ql seeds.

Then I kinda... grinded taming more, and they tame much better now!

Also, cant BL breed hell horses, even crappy ones, to rebirth for pvp mounts? Or does that not work? If it does, then it's very easy for BL priests to use hell horses. Sure they have no traits, but a non traited hell horse is still better than a fully traited barded horse, and you don't have to worry about tame levels and all that.

[Cornchips 3,037]

Bump.

I remember, back in march and april how people actually fought, everyone on regular horses, skills,pillar spells, and healing mattered more than number of peopl or what mount you had.