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BrQQQ

Hell Horses Suggestion

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Hell horses have their advantages and disadvantages. But the most important advantage is that they are incredibly strong. You could easily kill a regular horse in a few hits, but hell horses can take much more than that.

I suggest that hell horses become weaker. I think they should just be able to take a couple of more hits than a normal horse, but not more.

I don't think they are nearly impossible to kill now, but the difference in how much damage a horse vs a hell horse can take is just too big in pvp.

Edited by BrQQQ
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+1/-1,kinda mixed thoughts after thinking it over, since you have to tame them and have 31 body control to ride them, they should have an advantage, but the fight shouldn't be based solely on what mount you have, but like someone else set it's your pet spot

Edited by Cornchips

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-1 you sacrifice a pet spot to bring a hell horse. I'd rather they just got slowed more down when hit.

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-1 as Joe said it takes a pet spot to bring a hell horse. Also the body control needed is pretty high. Plus there is not advantage if 2 people have hell horses.

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-1

[01:47:26] You start aiming at Old fat hell horse.

[01:47:30] You let the arrow fly.

[01:47:31] You start aiming at Old fat hell horse.

[01:47:33] Your war arrow hits Old fat hell horse in the face.

[01:47:33] You hit Old fat hell horse deadly hard in the face and harm it.

[01:47:35] You let the arrow fly.

[01:47:35] You start aiming at Old fat hell horse.

[01:47:39] You let the arrow fly.

[01:47:42] Your war arrow hits Old fat hell horse in the face.

[01:47:42] You hit Old fat hell horse deadly hard in the face and harm it.

[01:47:46] You start aiming at Old fat hell horse.

[01:47:50] You let the arrow fly.

[01:47:50] You start aiming at Old fat hell horse.

[01:47:53] Your war arrow hits Old fat hell horse in the face.

[01:47:53] You hit Old fat hell horse deadly hard in the face and harm it.

[01:47:53] Old fat hell horse is dead!

Less than 30 seconds and the horse is dead, inb4 'oh but you have to have good bow skill' ....... like any other skill on Epic, the gain is fast and easy, if you want it - get it

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So joe and andy are sugesting that it shuld be considered as a combo of a pet and a horse.

How would a ridden hell horse compair to a regular horse and a pet croc? Maybe we can do some test on that.

If any chage happens to the hell horse I shuld hope it is not over done. It shuld still be better than a plain old horse.

Edited by GravityDog

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Id say make them as weak as a normal horse but keep its speed.

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+1 Any changes to keep PvP balanced sounds good to me. If they have to be stronger, just by an extra arrow or 2 would make more sense.

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The way I see it is is like this.

Was PvPing with pillar spells fun? No, because you wanted to go to melee combat, you spent all this time imping your weapon to 90ql and getting armor, and with pillar spells (pre-cooldown) you'd nearly die alone to one pillar or two pillar spells. People sucked gems and just constantly sat there right clicking every tile spamming it into a huge square. You come to PvP server to PvP, not to battle horses before even getting the chance to fight a player.

I'm pretty well known for using a hell horse, and I can tell you many fights I been in I've killed many players before they even got my horse to Wounded, and even when they did, I'd zip away uncaught. Which is fine.. sorta. I mean I had to work to get 31 Body Control and 50+ Taming to ride it. The problem now is sorta watching massive fights when multiple players have them, it's painful to watch because no one is really dying. It's horse combat, and taking 5+ minutes just to get everyone on foot.

I think Hell Horses should have lowered armor, but keep their constant speed boost. They are very strong in armor, it's hard to kill one. Imagine you're 1v1ing a guy, you're on a regular horse, he's on a hell horse. 99.99999% chance you're going to die before even getting his horse down, which isn't that fair in my opinion.

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As it is now, hell horses run faster then normal horses, and are about 10 times harder to kill.

There are two options i like;

1. Reduce the speed of hell horses to cap at 20km.h. You keep the protective nature of hell horses, but you can outrun a hell horse easily with a normal horse.

2. Make it so hell horses do not get traits when bred. This way they will not be as fast as normal horses.

Either way, i think hell horses really do need to be changed. As it is now they are a pvp killer.

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They seem fine in melee for what they are, recently at a hota I believe we killed a wild one in 6 hits total, 2 normal archery hits, 4 melee with both small mauls.

Imo the main issue with hell horses is they are literally invulnerable to archery unless you can face shot them. Now, yes, of course Epic has faster skill gain, but Epic is also about getting noobs into the game faster. I don't know many noobs that will have 70 in a bow type fast, while also getting 70fs, decent weapon skill, shield skill, sub skills, etc.

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My usual reply when it comes to creatures (NPCs) in PvP issues:

Make the pet/mount untame when hit by a playermade weapon and throw off the rider.

No PvP balancing needed then, can 100% unnerf taming with that (Yes, Hell horses are fun in PvE).

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They seem fine in melee for what they are, recently at a hota I believe we killed a wild one in 6 hits total, 2 normal archery hits, 4 melee with both small mauls.

Imo the main issue with hell horses is they are literally invulnerable to archery unless you can face shot them. Now, yes, of course Epic has faster skill gain, but Epic is also about getting noobs into the game faster. I don't know many noobs that will have 70 in a bow type fast, while also getting 70fs, decent weapon skill, shield skill, sub skills, etc.

Yes Epic is about getting noobs into the game faster, it also happens to be a 'team' game where people can join their strengths and weaknesses to work together.

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If you think about nerfing hell horses is like nerfing swords. When someone has a 90 ql sword and another person has a 50 ql sword. The 90 ql is going to win.

The same goes with the horses, if someone has a regular horses and the other and hell horse the hell horse is going to win.

What is the different, honestly if you are going to nerf hell horses why not nerf sword damage as well to keep ql's balanced.

You guys are looking at it as "He has a hell horse and I don't so I'm going to complain about it."

No you get the skills to get the hell horse and you ride one as well the same you would to get your sword to 90 ql.

Posteh makes a good point, but if that's the case why have drake armor and glistering in the game.

Edited by Atndy

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You guys are looking at it as "He has a hell horse and I don't so I'm going to complain about it."

No you get the skills to get the hell horse and you ride one as well the same you would to get your sword to 90 ql.

No, people are looking at it as "I have a hell horse and I can see this is overpowered, I'm going to suggest a change to balance this problem"

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If you think about nerfing hell horses is like nerfing swords. When someone has a 90 ql sword and another person has a 50 ql sword. The 90 ql is going to win.

The same goes with the horses, if someone has a regular horses and the other and hell horse the hell horse is going to win.

What is the different, honestly if you are going to nerf hell horses why not nerf sword damage as well to keep ql's balanced.

You guys are looking at it as "He has a hell horse and I don't so I'm going to complain about it."

No you get the skills to get the hell horse and you ride one as well the same you would to get your sword to 90 ql.

Edited by Postes
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If you think about nerfing hell horses is like nerfing swords. When someone has a 90 ql sword and another person has a 50 ql sword. The 90 ql is going to win.

The same goes with the horses, if someone has a regular horses and the other and hell horse the hell horse is going to win.

What is the different, honestly if you are going to nerf hell horses why not nerf sword damage as well to keep ql's balanced.

You guys are looking at it as "He has a hell horse and I don't so I'm going to complain about it."

No you get the skills to get the hell horse and you ride one as well the same you would to get your sword to 90 ql.

Posteh makes a good point, but if that's the case why have drake armor and glistering in the game.

I think your swords comparison is really bad and completely irrelevant.

Me and quite some others here use hell horses themselves so not sure how you get to "He has a hell horse and I don't so I'm going to complain about it."

The difference with having good things like glimmer/drake/scale and horses/hell horses is that if you wear those armor, you don't suddenly become extremely hard to kill. Instead you can just take a few more hits than if you'd be wearing chain, or have almost no difference than if you'd be wearing plate. It's called balanced, you get stronger but not OP.

Hell horses are different, because they do become extremely hard to kill with melee, compared to regular horses.

My point is that it does make sense to give hell horses some advantage, but giving it extremely good armor compared to normal horses is bad, because it creates a massive difference between the two types of horses, meaning regular horses become pretty much useless in pvp.

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It's interesting thinking back almost 2 years to the posts about horses, speed and barding and their effect on PvP. If somebody had suggested back then a horse that's faster and tougher than a barded horse, I wonder how it would have been received. My guess is not well.

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It's interesting thinking back almost 2 years to the posts about horses, speed and barding and their effect on PvP. If somebody had suggested back then a horse that's faster and tougher than a barded horse, I wonder how it would have been received. My guess is not well.

This. There was a whole cafumble over horses going really fast in barding, and nobody liked it. Hell horses are no different imo, just remove them.

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Make mounted horses have the protection of the rider so you focus on the rider, add a spear special move that tosses off riders, damaging hits to the mount and rider have a chance to toss off riders. Short stun.

Edited by Bernd

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Simplest solution for overpowered hell horses in PvP is remove all hell horses from PvP servers completely.

I do not like to see another nerf just to "balance" PvP. PvE servers suffers from such nerfs for years. :wacko:

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I'd certainly like to see Hell horses removed from Chaos.

Boss account,on hellhorse, with farwalker amulet,with glimmersteel wep, with scale armour...you see where this is going.

Please remove Hellhorses, or at least balance them with normal horses,so that they are still viable to use in PvP, but just a different tactic

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Hell horses serve as a high level skill barrier to pvp. They heavily disadvantage/discourage many who cant ride a hell horse from even considering the Hota or seeking pvp openly in general. An increasingly large pvp theme is "no hell horse? Not a shot in hell's chance cance of winning" regardless of its truth the perception is sufficent to be impactful.

Edited by Joanavon

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Interesting to note many of the people I see suggesting a hell horse change in this and other threads seem to be people who ride one.

If they were reduced but were still be better than horses I think they would still be fun and useful in PVE. (not as much fun perhaps but still stronger than horses)

What I would hope to not see is them being nerfed like bears and unicorns which are now less useful than horses despite taking more effort to get and ride.

I am sure everyone will have a different idea of what level of change (if any) should happen.

Perhaps reducing the armor to regular horses (or close to) and having the same barding penalty on speed would be an OK first step and then we could see if they seem less overwhelming.

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Hi,

do what's necessary for a working PvP, on the PvP servers.

But leave them hell horses alone, on the PvE servers. They are perfectly fine there.

Have fun!

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