Wurm Player Retention

[SirRick 22]

Well, I can kind of see how our ideas are coming together. Although I'm not imploring the devs to complicate the tutorial further, I'm actually hoping they will make it a little easier, and perhaps faster.

As for a starter town, I was going to comment to the suggestion another poster made, but I wanted time to digest the idea. Their suggestion was that it was completely owned and operated by the players. This leaves some variables. What happens when the players that run Starter Town are offline? What happens when some of them stop playing, take breaks, or get occupied with other activites in-game? This will make Starter Town a ghost town, with the exception of all of those who want to learn standing around without a teacher. I'm sure you've seen plenty of situations where CA Help chat is completely empty for hours at a time.

The idea of a Starter Town isn't a bad one, however, it will need to be fully automated- owned and operated by NPC's, and I don't see this being possible.

[SirRick 22]

Extending the tutorial would not be a good thing, and it has come a long way compared to what it used to be. And to think, I almost quit in the middle of the tutorial. But I do agree, having some sort of help wouldn't be a bad thing after being throw in to the world. Something to get rid of the "Where's a tree? I'm gonna make a mallet!" mentality. And some players have taken to doing this as pet projects. But if you build up and prepare the area too much, you end up with a "What's the point?" mentality. That's not good either.

I personally think that sprucing up the starter areas, making them like castle courtyards as described above, would inspire new players to make castles, gardens, and deeds of their own. If any of you have played alliance on World of Warcraft, think about the first time you saw Stormwind. It was really cool. If not, think about the invasion scene in Assassin's Creed Revelations, or Whiterun in Skyrim. All of those inspired my designs on all of the different deeds I've owned in the past.

Edited August 29, 2012 by SirRick

[BobMcKnob 46]

The game has tried to stay entirely away from the idea of NPCs. Traders and merchants are actually pushing away from the foundations. It's not something you will see. And I take it you've never seen the starter deed on Exodus. A while back some players got together with the GMs and did spruce the area up. It's not a civilization, but it's not a barren forest either. These are things you can do yourself. Talk to the community, talk to the GMs. Get yourself involved. Find out who the mayor is, track them down on the GM list, send them a PM.

[Herguy 4]

From a PR Perspective we don't want to go too quickly with the game. 3 million more people living on Wurm's servers would be rather too much, and chances are that they'd all leave within a month anyway... the best thing in my opinion to try and do is to target the players who are most likely to keep playing, enjoying and spreading the word about Wurm. People who already have MMO experience are more likely to be able to stick around on Wurm... which begs a question; how much MMO experience did your friends have? If they'd only spent their gaming lives playing shooters up until Wurm then it's no wonder that they quit. MMOs are a totally different genre, it's like trying to ride a unicycle when you've only ever driven a car in terms of differences.

lol, really? You are blaming the players MMO experience on the reason they left? Really? First of all.. At some points during the day Wurm doesn't even classify as an MMO due to the lack of players. Secondly MMO experience has nothing to do with why they left as you can see in his post that clearly states why they left and myself. 1 word BORING. The pace of the game is slower than old people have sex. It's down right boring, and the game as I said before looks Alpha state and who wants to play that crap in 2012?

[Busted 289]

lol, really? You are blaming the players MMO experience on the reason they left? Really? First of all.. At some points during the day Wurm doesn't even classify as an MMO due to the lack of players. Secondly MMO experience has nothing to do with why they left as you can see in his post that clearly states why they left and myself. 1 word BORING. The pace of the game is slower than old people have sex. It's down right boring, and the game as I said before looks Alpha state and who wants to play that crap in 2012?

If you don't like the pace of the game short of a fundamental change to suit you and people of the same mindset, you're not gong to enjoy it. And if that happens, the people who do enjoy Wurm for what it is don't have a reason to play any more.

Expanding upon features to make it more attractive without fundamentally changing the game is what's needed, not shoehorning the game into something it isn't. Build on strengths and introduce sensible changes to shore up the weaknesses.

Most MMO players come from the Wow's and LotRO's of the world and find sandbox games confusing and hard to grasp. This is why Wurm and games of a similar ilk are niche games and not mainstream. Most people who enjoy mainstream games won't like Wurm. You seem to be a mainstream MMO player rather than one suited for a sandbox game.

And why so angry?

[SirRick 22]

The game has tried to stay entirely away from the idea of NPCs. Traders and merchants are actually pushing away from the foundations. It's not something you will see. And I take it you've never seen the starter deed on Exodus. A while back some players got together with the GMs and did spruce the area up. It's not a civilization, but it's not a barren forest either. These are things you can do yourself. Talk to the community, talk to the GMs. Get yourself involved. Find out who the mayor is, track them down on the GM list, send them a PM.

I'll be square with you, I haven't seen the starter area of Exodus, so I wouldn't know how nice it may be. I have, however, seen the starting areas of Independence and Deliverance no more than a month ago, and they were stagnant, dreary, or simply plain-looking.

I'm making suggestions for Wurm Online to retain it's new players because I would like to see a more active wurm community. My suggestions are easy to implement, and I would be happy to help suggest desgins and such for starter areas.

I don't think that this should be left up to the community to pester the GM's to get done though. I think it's something that should be automatic. Like I said, the tutorial and the starter areas are the first points of contact for players, thus making them important areas to show off what wurm has to offer.

Edited August 29, 2012 by SirRick

[joedobo 1,187]

Noob tourist mode. They can jump from various community voted wonders and check them out. Make sure all they can do is just observer an area and can't be attacked.

Fixing up the the start deeds is a good idea, but whose idea of beauty do we use? I believe their is resistance to letting another JKH, NewTown occur and its been decided that new player should be encouraged to set out, explore, and find their own path.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

If you start off the game with a beautiful Stromwind castle town filled with helpful NPCs, players will get the idea this is another "guided" MMO like World of Warcraft, and they will expect that same level of guidance throughout the game. Then when they get out just a little bit further and eventually hit the same stage as your friends -- it's boring, there is nothing to do! -- they will ask why not just extend that guided experience throughout the rest of the game too. And pick up the pace, is too slow! And more action and excitment! And a LOT more eye candy and glitz!

Wurm's strength is that everything here, we the players made ourselves. Every road, every nicely designed village, every ugly wasteland of decaying newbie shacks, every one of those is a testament to the players. Once you add the lovely prebuilt castle starter town, the new players will start clamoring for there to be tradespeople where they can sell their loot, and an easy to find weapons and armor dealer to sell them a starter set of gear, and of course some sort of quest that pays them in coin so they can buy all that. The next thing you have is a multiplayer Skyrim, which may be a nice thing and a very "sandboxy" game in some aspects, but not a true sandbox. The fact is -- Wurm =IS= a niche game, and it appeals to a certain set of players. Please don't try to give it mainstream appeal by turning it into a mainstream game.

There *ARE* many ways the game could be made less frustrating to starting players, but not one of those ideas would have helped a single one of your friends who quit bored after spending two weeks designing a new village under your guidance. We are mixing up here a little the retention of first-day players and players after several weeks, but I am concerned that most of your solutions seem to center on turning the game into something it really isn't, an online elder scrolls type of game from start to finish, with the addition of terraforming and freeform building..

** I also agree with every word Busted wrote here, and thank goodness his diplomacy level is so much better than mine as sometimes its hard for me to find the right phrases to explain without coming off argumentative, which isn't my intent. But I think he speaks for the vast majority of the playerbase. If not, he certainly at least speaks for me.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Brash_Endeavors

[Gamefreak565 2]

I used to play this game awhile ago, we're talking about 3 years ago. I've been keeping up with the games progress because I really do have a desire to play sandbox games, but I've had a hard to really getting into one. I think that one of the reasons I quit Wurm was because I could never be unique in terms of character appearance. There was no customization with the exception of choosing whether you were male or female. This is one of the reasons, and for a sandbox gamer it might seem shallow, but not being able to identify with your character in any means except for extreme roleplaying (which I dislike to do) sort of broke the experience for me in the manner I've mentioned.

One thing that also stopped me from playing this game was the ceiling complex that others have discussed in this thread. For me, the game sort of went like this:

- Log in completely clueless surrounded by a myriad of things to do (most people you don't want to play a game like this clear out now because they want the aforementioned pig mounts and big yellow checkmark)

- Figure out the basic mechanics of the game

- Build a shack on mud

- See someone else's huge village and fancy things and get jealous

- Get together with some friends and build one of your own

- Kill most of the monster types in the game

- Become completely self sufficient

It is after this point that the game hits a ceiling, as it feels that there is nothing more to be done. There is no reward for continuing as you are already self sufficient, also there is no point in interacting with other villages because there is nothing that you really need from them. After a week of this, the game starts to feel more like a job because you are playing more and more because your walls need to be improved and your house needs to be repaired. Now you have accomplished everything and there are no in-game goals to accomplish.

After this happens, the player will generally leave, except the few who play that remain faithful to the developers and or the project they have built. Then you have a situation where the game is in a sort of "limbo".

In other words:

S = Subscriber count.

P = the players that are the exception to the rule, who remain faithful to the game.

N = The amount of new players.

L = The amount of leaving players.

S = P + (N-L), where L=N and for short periods of time L>N or L<N

Which basically means your player base generally stays the same and the games success is in the aforementioned "limbo" state.

The major problem with Wurm is that there is no type of serious gameplay after you establish your village. There is no goals; nothing that you can really set yourself apart to do. The novelty of building your house and town wears off relatively fast, and there is nothing left to hold you in place. Adding aesthetics like customization characters and armor models/real animations would help immensely, but ultimately more post village material needs to be added to the game in order for it to be able to hold on to subscribers. This is the same reason that themepark mmos die, they are fun until you hit the maximum level, then the fun dies out. World of Warcraft is so successful because the developers have added tones of endgame content and have really built the game around it. There is a lot of discussion about people leaving because they get frustrated early. These people are not true sandbox fans. The problem at hand, I believe, is not that people get frustrated at the start of the game, but more so after they've established themselves, because there is a lack of things to do.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it, I think I have several valid points here.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Gamefreak565

[SirRick 22]

If you start off the game with a beautiful Stromwind castle town filled with helpful NPCs, players will get the idea this is another "guided" MMO like World of Warcraft, and they will expect that same level of guidance throughout the game. Then when they get out just a little bit further and eventually hit the same stage as your friends -- it's boring, there is nothing to do! -- they will ask why not just extend that guided experience throughout the rest of the game too. And pick up the pace, is too slow! And more action and excitment! And a LOT more eye candy and glitz!

Wurm's strength is that everything here, we the players made ourselves. Every road, every nicely designed village, every ugly wasteland of decaying newbie shacks, every one of those is a testament to the players. Once you add the lovely prebuilt castle starter town, the new players will start clamoring for there to be tradespeople where they can sell their loot, and an easy to find weapons and armor dealer to sell them a starter set of gear, and of course some sort of quest that pays them in coin so they can buy all that. The next thing you have is a multiplayer Skyrim, which may be a nice thing and a very "sandboxy" game in some aspects, but not a true sandbox. The fact is -- Wurm =IS= a niche game, and it appeals to a certain set of players. Please don't try to give it mainstream appeal by turning it into a mainstream game.

There *ARE* many ways the game could be made less frustrating to starting players, but not one of those ideas would have helped a single one of your friends who quit bored after spending two weeks designing a new village under your guidance. We are mixing up here a little the retention of first-day players and players after several weeks, but I am concerned that most of your solutions seem to center on turning the game into something it really isn't, an online elder scrolls type of game from start to finish, with the addition of terraforming and freeform building..

** I also agree with every word Busted wrote here, and thank goodness his diplomacy level is so much better than mine as sometimes its hard for me to find the right phrases to explain without coming off argumentative, which isn't my intent. But I think he speaks for the vast majority of the playerbase. If not, he certainly at least speaks for me.

Brash, you make some extremely good points, and this is exactly why I wanted to discuss player retention, both that of new players, and that of my friends. Your concerns and predictions are well within the realm of possibility if the game was misrepresented in some way as being less sandboxy and more themeparky and actually headed in that direction.

You seem to have a strong grasp on the happenings of wurm, and I think that's partly because I've seen your name many, many times in the forums which leads me to believe you're a long-lasting veteran player.

I would like your opinion on how you think Wurm Online can retain more players, because I know it's an issue and I hope it's one that can be somewhat resolved. As you can tell, I'd like for some awe-inspiring starter zones, and a good example is Serenity. The start zone there is pretty nice. Well-decorated areas don't necessarily need NPC's or quests or anything like themepark MMO's may have, but just making an area more pleasing to the eye could do wonders.

I'm not sure how much of this thread you've read, so I will make my intentions clear. There are times when I play Wurm Online that I feel like I'm in a singleplayer game. I know the simple answer to that would be, "Join a village!", but I don't think that's the solution. There may be a cluster of active villages here and there, but I've come to find that Wurm, for me, feels a bit more like a wasteland. I would absolutely love to see more events, more activity, and local chats full of names that aren't all toons of the same one or two veterans.

I honestly feel like the game needs some fresh life and blood injected into it, and it can't happen if players quit before they finish the tutorial, ten minutes after they spawn at the starting area, or even two weeks after building a village.

Edited August 29, 2012 by SirRick

[SirRick 22]

The major problem with Wurm is that there is no type of serious gameplay after you establish your village. There is no goals; nothing that you can really set yourself apart to do. The novelty of building your house and town wears off relatively fast, and there is nothing left to hold you in place. Adding aesthetics like customization characters and armor models/real animations would help immensely, but ultimately more post village material needs to be added to the game in order for it to be able to hold on to subscribers.

Boom.

Hammer Head + Nail Head = Winner.

I believe this is a big reason why people who decide to play past the initial few days stop playing.

So the question is... What can we do, or what can the developers do, to maintain player retention and bring in new blood? Like I've said in previous posts, I want to see wurm thrive with a larger community than present.

Edited August 29, 2012 by SirRick

[Victor 27]

I have had the same problem for years now. My "main" account, which I hardly play anymore (Meridius) has several skills 80+. Why don't I play him? Because its a dull chore to play the game. I have built over 15 villages of my own because the fun on the Freedom servers has been what others have said over and over, find, settle, build, bored.

So what am I doing now? I am on Epic. Why? I know, I have to start over, but so what? What I want is conflict and events, both are given by Epic. I am part of my kingdom (Mol Rehan) and the constant threat of raiding and pvp keeps the game alive, vibrant and exciting. I want to help my nation be powerful and conquer most of the server, if not make my own kingdom someday. I like being a member of a nation, and contributing to the prosperity and safety of my fellow MR.

Many of you don't want to come to Epic, or Wild (Chaos) for fear of attack. But honestly, why not? If you are bored and need huge projects to even stay interested, then why play the game? I don't care if I get attacked, I rebuild. Isn't that what Wurm is about anyway? Its about being part of a living, breathing world.

Freedom servers just don't have that.

That's how I stay interested.

Now, everyone's playstyle is different, so to add to the conversation I would like to add that the most fun, aside from making a village, was when Mr Bloodworth would do events, and invite the whole server to participate. They were greatly received, and the participation was wonderful.

That's what would benefit Wurm, an Live Event Coordinator, someone to do live events on the servers, from scenarios to help with a goblin invasion, to finding a hidden ruin. Something to help a story along that exists independent of what the players are doing.

[Teggs 55]

Joedobo:

Way back in history UO's housing had an issue where mobs where spawning near popular house spots' date=' people complained, and the UO devs moved the mob spawn to areas where houses arn't as dense.[/quote']

Busted:

What's more likely to keep newer players interested in your village? Build a new canal or Colossus or defend against raiding goblins or trolls that have amassed on your deeds borders and threaten to overwhelm your guards and break down your fences? How about another objective - keep the numbers of said goblins or trolls down to prevent them massing in the first place?

I have had the thought before, that it would be helpful if Rolf could consult with Raph Koster, who designed the gameworlds of Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies, or someone else with knowledge and experience of creating a "living gameworld". A living gameworld is one where the game systems, be it weather or plants or animals or NPCs, act in accordance with a realistic framework of priorities, one which adjusts to player activity, but is not dependent on it.

Wurm has the parts for a living gameworld, but they do not have direction. We have weather, but it does not follow a logical set of criteria of have much of an effect on anything but sailing where the fickle winds mystify and annoy players. We have plants, and their growth cycles are very good, but restricted to an individual tile, and the only interaction outside that is when an Oak or Willow kills other trees around them. We have animals, but they wander at random, seeking only food, which would be realistic enough, only animals seeking food do not truly wander at random. We have some supposedly sentient NPCs like Trolls and Goblins, but they are sharply limited in their actions. Trolls and Goblins never seek to build a stronghold or lair, they engage in no tactics against players, they are more or less just different animals.

Some of that providing depth by putting a static world in motion does not actually give a player any more to "do". But the last part, which Busted and Joedobo were talking about, has a direct affect on players. We used to joke about an animal alliance on Golden Valley. Spiders and Lava Fiends and Bears cooperating in their common quest to eat as many players as possible. But what if it were true? Not for the dumb animals, but what if Goblins worked to control an area for themselves, if Trolls cooperated to defend themselves from powerful player hunters, if Lava Fiends made lairs in the depths and tried to take over extensive player mine networks with their minions?

I would find that providing more to do, and more reason to cooperate with other players, adding to Wurm without changing the nature of it. I think this is possible, and if it should happen, would be a great enhancement to the game.

- Teggs

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

There are some very unique and interesting gameplay elements in Ryzom, where herbivore animals will migrate across the map depending on the season, and carnivore animals will travel in small packs and prey on the large herbivore herds. There also, resources vary a lot according to the seasons and according to how much "over development" or harsh resource extraction occurs in an area. I would love to see weather play a much greater role in Wurm, where cold weather can cause you to get sick and lower your efficieny oif you are not bundled up against the cold (I'd even go so far as freezing to death if you don't have warm clothes and occasional trips to a heated indoors.) That might work better on a map with some differentiation in climate and terrain -- I could well see the new players starting in a more "temperate" climate but better land and resources available in more rugged climates and terrain. Maybe for Wurm 2.0 or maybe for the next reincarnation of Epic servers.

I think games like Dwarf Fortress and Unreal World (sandbox singleplayer game set in ice age of finland) have elements that would add a lot to Wurm, and still keep it .. Wurm, at heart. We all have different things that keep us motived and going. I have 3500 hours on my main character in Wurm, which far outdistances the combined times of all my characters in World of Warcraft, Skyrim, and every other mainstream MMO on the market that I have ever played (leaving out possible Asherons Call, my first true MMO). It can be very hard though if you are not used to having a game that providea goals for you. All those games I cited as being good models for Wurm however have small (if fanatic) fan bases, so if you are looking to get a highly active population, I am not sure a "true" sandbox can ever compare with the mainstream titles. But those mainstream titles made a lot of compromises in vision to keep a broad appeal. And in the end, I chose Wurm over any of them, so none of those really have "all the answers" either. I would rsather Wurm not compromise just to get more players -- we have enough mainstream games already on the market and only one game like Wurm. That does not mean though we cannot imrpove Wurm. I would love exploring and traveling to be even more of an aspect in Wurm, thats one thing Skyrim did great in my book, you were always curious to poke around and see what other places were like. In Wurm, I think its greatest drawback is that there is very little motivation to explore and travel. One area is pretty much like another, and if you happen to have a deed near all the basic resources, there is very little reason to step off deed. I'd love to see completely different animals, climates, resources in different areas so that we have more cause to get off our deeded homesteads and go poking our nose around in the rest of the world.

Also, I am still a newbie compared to the real veterans I have no idea how many hours some of these players have racked up ingame (and I am not counting AFK priest type stuff) but I bet my 3500 hours on my main character is nothing compared to people playing daily since 2006, 2008 etc. Wurm definitely DOES provide something for people who flourish in a true sandbox type environment. I think it can improve, but would want that to stay true to the core nature of the game and not to change that nature. Also, for me Wurm is more an internal roleplaying game rather than an external action game, which might ((or might not)) be part of the difference between those who stick with Wurm and those who quickly grow bored with it.

Anyway -- once you have your village completed and have run out of things to do, why not set as a goal some player-made activities that you think would provide fun for other players. Dark Malice has set up elaborate Treasure Hunts with maps and buried treasure all over the server. Impalong is a player-created event -- don't just make another impalong but thing of something on that scale, something "outside the box" that people would WANT to travel and gather for. Since you enjoy making villages out of the wilderness, maybe once a month organize a "wagon train" of carts to take some brand new players out to very scary and rugged parts of the map, help them build a guard tower and some wells, and do terraforming, do not plan or build their homesteads for them but help them get a new community shared mine opened up and any other basics they need to get started. If several people decide to start separate homesteads in one general area, maybe at the center do a little community center -- a water supply, guard tower, simple craft workshop/safety center that they can all share. Maybe post on the forums a map and directions to the area if there is still room for 2-4 other homesteads in the region. Then take off and leave them to settle in, and start exploring and organizing where the next month's team will go. Resist the urge to impose your concepts of a proper village and just see that they have the basics needed to survive that first few weeks.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Brash_Endeavors

[Cymmy 50]

OK, I dont usually replay to threads like this because I am quite happy just diggin away on my deed and leveling my skills, etc. Each new thing that gets added makes me happy and I look forward to the new additions to clothing, armor, textures, etc with great anticipation.In reply to Zcul though one thing I have noticed over my many years playing online games is that people love to collect things. They love the hunt to find them, and sometimes the harder the hunt the more they love it. They love to display their collections to show all the community their accomplishments. I am not sure how this could be incorporated into the game but perhaps it could come about with some sort of trophies. Maybe special ores from mining that are only meant for display (think nice crystal type chunk of rocks you can put in your yard) Animal trophies so you could display your hunting prowess, etc. This is something that would attract a lot of players and would keep them in game as they try to 'get them all'. As to SirRicks delima, I feel for you because this game simply is not meant for everyone and if your friends are not staying in game there is a very good possibility that no amount if planning on your part will keep them here. Perhaps it would be better to cultivate new friendships with people that are here and staying here?

[Zakerak 442]

Uniformity of whole enviroment is problem, what brings boredom poison to us. There is not much really new things, veteran player can see. I'm thinking of few ideas, what can bring more uniqueness to our surroundings.

- visible decay

Only wooden fences has visible decay and only in 2 stages, perfect/rotted . If all house wood/stone walls, low and tall stone walls, iron fences, lamps, altars, wells/fountains ... if all that things has visible decay in 4-5 stages from perfect state to nearly rotted, world around us will be more varying and even changing in time.

- random color on creation

When new thing is created, it could have chance to get some random color, from crap low QL colors to some decent ones. Who do not like his color, can scrub it away by metal brush or recolor by own color. But this way all things have their chance to get some original soul. Now you can see some carts/ships or even some houses with color, but most things are embarrassing uniform. I know this can steal work from our dye makers, but in final result it can bring even bigger market for them ... who want to live in spotty house, wearing comic colored armor?

-differences in shape

All builded enviroment parts, but even tools, weapons, armors, furniture should have some differences in shape or at last in textures. Again this could be set in creation process. And it can be somehow modified by quality. Hammer, what looks the same in QL 1.0 and in QL 99+ is mystery for me. I know this part will be hard to implement, but it can be very attractive to players and can lure us to working more, improving more, experimenting more with all things around us.

Of course it will not heal all boredom in Wurm, but it can be nice first step forward to keep players more tied to our virtual world.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Zakerak

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

[...] how can I keep my friends interested in Wurm?

A lot of things have been discussed already, no need to repeat. Maybe I'm able to add a few suggestions?

Alliances:

1. Make sure you're in an alliance. Preferably a bigger one, with deeds all over the server.
   This can make sure that at every time some seasoned player is on line, and is able to help your villagers. A newbie in a village, stuck with his task, with the mayor absent, that isn't fun and should be avoided.
   
2. Encourage them to use the alliance chat mainly, instead of the local or the village chat. More people, more talk, more fun!
   
3. Have them travel between the alliance deeds to help out each other with our projects!
   
4. And if they have reached a decent amount of skill, encourage them to get out and set up a deed of their own, and become a new alliance member.
   

This adds "life" to your villagers gaming time, more than you'd be able to provide with your village alone. The more people they know, and talk to, the more ideas they'll find for their future plans.

Don't make a "hermit village" with a mayor and a few subs, better make an alliance of mayors and mayors-to-be.

Chores/ Skilling:

1. Every villager should have a certain task he's responsible for. One might be responsible for field A, the other for field B, the next has to groom the cows & horses, another might be responsible to get sprouts and replant trees.
   Every villager should know that he's needed, and that, if he doesn't login for a week, the village would suffer from this. But keep these "chores" well distributed, it shouldn't be more then max. 1h a day.
   
2. Encourage them to concentrate on a certain skill (area), and to become good in it. But at all costs prevent them from hard core grinding, this makes people burn out quickly if overdone!
   
3. Keep a slow pace with all you do. Don't hurry with building your village, with your projects, with your goals. Each gaming phase should have a little hunting, exploring, making stupid things. Don't forget the fun, avoid it that the gaming experience would become cumbersome!
   

The people should know that they are needed, and have a value. But they shouldn't be overloaded, it's essential to actually "play" a bit - after all we're here for fun, recreation and excitement, not for just passing the time, right?

That's what I'm able to contribute regarding the initial question, there's a lot more regarding changes in the game mechanics. But this is a mine field, we should avoid at all costs to change Wurm too much - this could be deadly. Think twice what you ask for, your wish could get granted ...

Maybe more, later. Have a good time!

[Pragmatist 165]

Just recapping, mainly for my own benefit:

There are two stages where Wurm struggles to retain players: early on (turned off by graphics/too complicated/too difficult), or once settled (run out of new things to do).

Ideas already proposed for player retention early on: the excellent graphics work in the pipeline, improving the tutorial and starter deeds, and creation of player-run starter towns.

While the graphics updates will also help somewhat with retaining settled players, the problem here is mainly a gameplay one. I think the reasons for the problem go back a long way. Those who have been playing longer can correct me, but my impression has always been that Wurm was originally intended to be primarily PvP-driven. Freedom started out as an anomaly, basically a PvP server with the PvP switched off. Freedom has since grown to provide the majority of the playerbase but, because it was never conceived or developed separately from Wild, there's nothing to take the place of PvP in the long game.

This means that, to thrive on Freedom at the moment, you need to create your own long game. Some people can do that, but it does require a specific mindset (or a very casual pace of play). Most people can't. And (with all due respect to the some of the suggestions above) you are not going to fundamentally change that just by seeking to modify their in-game behaviour.

So, is it possible to introduce some optional game-created goals for these people without compromising the hardcore sandbox that most of us enjoy?

*Please don't debate these specific suggestions, they are just off the top of my head*

Artifacts to find that can be combined to make some kind of super-altar?

Rare reclusive mobs that require 4-5 players to take down?

Missions on Epic or HotA on Chaos - ok, judging by the forums these seem to have had mixed success, but they do offer something else to do - why not a Freedom equivalent?

Saying to people "Well, it's just not the game for you" is all very well, but if it can be *made* more of a game for them without killing the sandbox soul of Wurm, then surely everyone wins?

Edited August 29, 2012 by Pragmatist

[Wulfgar 1,119]

Ideas for retaining players early on:

I don't feel the current tutorial > being thrown into live servers system is optimal for player retention. Golden Valley was not a bad idea, and worked great in the beginning. The problem was lack of map resets.

I feel some intermediate playground where they can go after the tutorial, but before they enter the real servers, would be best for player retention and would solve some problems. I don't have a perfect solution

for how to make this temporary playground though. I have some ideas which I won't elaborate before some dev's think it would be a good idea.

Ideas for retaining long term players:

I have burned out a few times as well when I felt Wurm was too much of a grind, but I would much rather have this grind than the opposite, skills that take days to level to maximum and almost instant terraforming and building like MC.

I love the slow pace of Wurm, I have ideas for my deed or a future deed that will take probably 2 years from now. I tried out Epic and disliked the double skill gain and curve so much. It just makes players get bored or done with Wurm so much faster. I think a lot of the problems with retaining long term players are new content, like new buildings, more diverse construction options, and of course also more diverse graphics, which is being worked on as we speak.

Anyways, one idea to reduce the grind a bit comes to mind. Make all titles work like the armour crafting titles do now. When you wear it you improve the quality faster (for when you need to make 50 lamps for your deed or 50 tools to sell on your merchant), and when you want to grind to improve your skill, you just don't wear the title and it works like now.

Also, for the love of Vynora, unnerf all the pvp nerfs that hit the Freedom servers. What was wrong with having champ bears pulling your cart, or champ trolls fighting for you at full strength on a PvE server? A way to retain players is to give more options to the players and not limiting the sandbox.

[meiyeeer 78]

The issue with going to pvp for endgame, is that I don't really want to spend time building something that won't stay around. I like pvp, I've been part of some serious pvp guilds in other games, and I like building places to live from scratch (I've been a nomad for a long time). But, without even the possibility of permanence someday, I'm not motivated to build there.

Perhaps some GM run contests could be run, to give people some direction. Like a contest for most impressive garden, or most fearsome castle, with the prize being some cosmetic item like a statue of Rolf.

[Tamorlane 381]

A game that tries to be all things to all people almost always ends up not doing any one thing very well. There certainly is a rush/crash/fade cycle to Wurm, and the current process of adding new servers only invigorates the community for a short time. I like the idea of community events that occur regularly and encourage activity, but even those can get repetitive (and don't always appeal to all players equally).

Several people have mentioned it already, but adding in 'new' content in the form of creatures, structures, or craftables on a regular basis (bimonthly or quarterly) would go a long way towards extending the player life cycle. But these would need to be significant to hold interest ("Oh look, a napkin to go with my fork and spoon. Yay?" may not cut it). Think how much might be done around adding something as basic as glass - literally hundreds of crafting/building possibilites might emerge. After 1.0, it may be easier to focus the development roadmap on content expansion, but within the limits of the existing staff I think things are moving in the right direction.

[Wiro 370]

I read a few posts mentioning challenge being desired as well as hated. I think the reason for this is because the consequences (skill loss, walls broken down and losing lots of animals as a result, death) are annoying and often don't add anything to the game. Challenge and annoyance seem to blend seamlessly into eachother at times in Wurm.

[JackBurton 903]

As with all sandboxes, from time to time, fresh sand has to replace the old dingy stuff that's been crapped on by the other kids for a while. Of course this is the equivalent of pissing in the Cheerios of those other kids for some reason.

[atazs 965]

Hopefully all this should be fixed once 1.0 comes out in december.

I have my doubts

[Ayes 3,715]

I am totally against this idea that the aggro mobs in the game should be made more dangerous and have abilities enhanced that would enable them to attack deeds in some manner and find it hard to comprehend how this would somehow make the game more attractive to new players.

Every day when I take my alt off of his deed on Deliverance I am assaulted by these aggro mobs. If anyone wants this "excitement" added to their gameplay it is of little effort for them to step outside of their deed and travel a very short way to find this "excitement". It is there and available as a *choice* for any who think this is a enjoyable experience. To try to *force* everyone to experience this aggro mob assault within the safety of their deeds is ludicrous and would be damaging to player retention of both old and new players alike.

Here follows a more effective way to make the game attractive to new and old players alike:

The new servers have been a great addition to the game but the great length time it takes to sail to them has created a dispersion and isolationism of the playerbase, making the accomplishment of community type events much more difficult, as players will simply not take that additional time to reach other servers where their friends and allies reside. Epic type portal travel needs to be enabled on all the servers to enable trade and the community (friends) to be able to quickly meet at their deeds and community type villages on other servers. This seems to me to be a very obvious and glaring need and yet resisted by those would have the power to enable it in game.

I am not much of the community event type person myself as I am content to do my own thing on my own timeline but still I can clearly see the need for this portal type system server wide and its benifit to the game as a whole. In the highly successful (but ridiculed within these forums) game of WoW their means of travel over the years has continually been upgraded to make getting to the various locations within the game a faster process, as exemplified by making the faster ground mounts available at earlier character levels and enhancing their flightpaths. The major cities reached by these means are always jam packed with players day and night which enables easy contact between players as well as the trade and bantering between them that ensues.

Even the old faithful game of Ultima Online has instant travel through the mage created runebooks which any player can obtain from them, as well as various cities with their player vendors surrounding them which act as gathering and trade points. All this creates player contact i.e. community. Wurm will never have this as long as it remains entrenched in the concept that travel must remain at a snails pace to somehow enchance the experience of "exploring" in Wurm. As always, exploring can be done as a *choice* even with a portal system enabled for fast travel to friends and events on all servers. Sailing boats will still be in the game for those who *choose* to use them but when this attractive portal type system is instituted they will obviously be much less used and I see no problem with this.

Portal type travel will also enable new players to quickly travel to a deed that is interested in hiring them for various work, thus benifiting new and old players alike. This system would also enhance trade by enabling players to portal to a swordsmiths deed to pick up their *unmailable* items and then head back home. The same for any items that would want to be purchased and cant be sent through the mail. On and on the benifits go but these examples should be enough to get players thought processes stirring as to the benifits of portal travel being enabled to all servers on the Epic basis. After all, Rolf did enable this ability to build portals on ones deed to entice people to go to the Epic servers but it would be of much better benifit to the players and the game as a whole to enable it on this same basis to all server locations.

=Ayes=