Wl Vs Bl Spell Availability.. The Summary.

[Gone420 609]

Never did i say BL and anyone on epic should stick to pvp, never typed that at all, I said that Lib priest Are centered around pvp, and are the best for it.

Oh but there is room for "pve" people, they just simply don't priest, nothing is forcing them to.

[Julepalme 39]

Your comparision is being done at a religion vs religion level and ignores the fact that at the priest vs priest level Libila gives the most punch per pound.You cannot concentrate even more capabilty into one toon. It takes three accounts to have the full gamut of WL spells many of which are never or almost never, ever cast.

What you are really asking for is an overhaul of the religion system, its a big thing to ask for.

Im not saying we should pour every spell in a lib priest.. infact that would be just silly.. and yes lib priests are overpowered to some extent in pvp.. im also arguing for a nerf to their pvp spells.. but my main concern when i made this thread is and has always been the lack of pve/utility spells on BL side.. but that being said i think the priest/spell system sorely needs an overhaul for both pvp and pve balance.

I agree pm others point of view that from a pvp standpoint lib priests prolly are more op than others.. not a lot but yes more op i guess.

And. nothing is forcing pve people to priest.. but still people would often like to have some pve utlity.. i mean would you like to give up genesis and strongwall and live without them on WL side?

Edited August 20, 2012 by Julepalme

[conloch 344]

still thats kinda besides the point im trying to discuss.. and tbh im fine with mongols having a champ nogump.. doesnt make a difference to me, its a fair equivelant to land of the dead in my book.

I could maybe a see a problem if they began using 5 mag priests and 5 champ nogumps.. but im guessing theylve had enough respect for others not to do that yet. and thats great i think.

Edit sry didnt know crown was needed for the nogump.. nvm then. my bad

Edit2: sry conloach.. just proved to me again you shouldnt be allowed in these thread.. piss out of my thread please if you cant respond in a civilized tone and on topic.

Dude? If we are gonna talk about Nerfing mongols instead of buffing a buffed priest rename your thread. Maybe we should nerf the crown, the armor, make it so we can't leave deed, make it so we do 100% reduced damage... We have fast hell horses because someone called tryfaen who decided to devote his time into breeding maybe you should nerf the effort he put in, the artifacts? Loki, xallo, gomeo and a few others put a great deal of effort into finding them. How about we nerf that some how to. You talk about our numbers,? Maybe if people in BL or where ever would put some effort into the game new players would stay. It's kinda sick really how people cry because they put no effort into the game and expect to be at the top with the people who do put in the effort.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

Your comparision is being done at a religion vs religion level and ignores the fact that at the priest vs priest level Libila gives the most punch per pound.You cannot concentrate even more capabilty into one toon. It takes three accounts to have the full gamut of WL spells many of which are never or almost never, ever cast.

What you are really asking for is an overhaul of the religion system, its a big thing to ask for.

The religion system is the "most balanced" aspect of wurm, in my opinion. It took long time to create, and to be honest a change here would just be a waste of Rolfs time. Leave the System as it is, Lib is as said the "all in one" god with game ruling spells,which are badass enough.

[Julepalme 39]

Dude? If we are gonna talk about Nerfing mongols instead of buffing a buffed priest rename your thread. Maybe we should nerf the crown, the armor, make it so we can't leave deed, make it so we do 100% reduced damage... We have fast hell horses because someone called tryfaen who decided to devote his time into breeding maybe you should nerf the effort he put in, the artifacts? Loki, xallo, gomeo and a few others put a great deal of effort into finding them. How about we nerf that some how to. You talk about our numbers,? Maybe if people in BL or where ever would put some effort into the game new players would stay. It's kinda sick really how people cry because they put no effort into the game and expect to be at the top with the people who do put in the effort.

Noone talking about nerfing mongols

Noone asking to buff an already buffed priest.. just add some pve utlity. and maybe even nerf pvp i've said.

Never once said crown was OP.. i said its def. on par with our land of the dead and i consider it fair.. and maybe even think the other kingdoms JK/MR should have something similar in termsof a doomsday spell/device.

And if you wanna derail this thread into a hell horse thread.. theres other places for it.

And as far as effort.. no matter how much effort i put into the game that wont get us more unique spells compared to WL.. only devs realising this is an unfair situation will.. and they wont if you dont agree to a mature discussion on the topic instead of mocking BL and derailing any thread we make.. even the serious ones.l

And if you think BL doesnt put any effort into our breeding or whatnot. think again.

And no i never brought up your numbers.. thats all you again trying to change the topic..

And no i never complained about you having nearly all artifiacts thats you again trying to change the topic..

so with that out of the system.. focus on the topic maybe ?

Edited August 20, 2012 by Julepalme

[conloch 344]

well in my experience of pvp fo seems a bit op with there morning fog, oakshell and willowspine...we have true hit....but the one thing i would like to see change is the rebirth option...if we can only keep it for 24 hours..and WLers get theres for how long until it dies...we should atleast get to keep the traits (I.E. hellhorse) I mean it has been mentioned of someone on WL side going 40 km/h on a hell horse now how is that fair? and the champ no gump...now that is apparently permanatly forever a mongol..and it's strength seems to be equal to a call of the dead cast of 40+ trolls.

true.. i didnt really want to bring up the whole champ nogump thing.. because tbh i feel it kinda cancels out the lotd we do. and yes dom is quite nice compared to rebirth.. but they need the nogump tbh to counter lotd.. so i find it somewhat fair.. each side has atleast 1 big doomsday device/spell to some extent..

Its funny that. When a fellow bler derails the thread you dont say anything and half agree with him.

[Gone420 609]

I don't argree Lib priests are Overpowered, although Fungus Trap is certainly FAR more powerful that either of the pillar spells, I just think Lib priests are Fine with Their spell set as is, If you want to...idk breed horses or Make a farm, then a Very simple solution is to not priest.

These Utility spell you keep talking about, There are only two that i can think of that are in anyway useful, That is Locate soul and Genesis, Locate soul is extremely easy to counter.

As for genesis, meh, its a pretty okay spell i agree, but there are only 2 or 3 70+ faith fo priests on epic that i know of, and there are still plenty of good horses.

[Julepalme 39]

I don't argree Lib priests are Overpowered, although Fungus Trap is certainly FAR more powerful that either of the pillar spells, I just think Lib priests are Fine with Their spell set as is, If you want to...idk breed horses or Make a farm, then a Very simple solution is to not priest.

These Utility spell you keep talking about, There are only two that i can think of that are in anyway useful, That is Locate soul and Genesis, Locate soul is extremely easy to counter.

As for genesis, meh, its a pretty okay spell i agree, but there are only 2 or 3 70+ faith fo priests on epic that i know of, and there are still plenty of good horses.

I can think of atleast a couple more than that i could make good use of on BL side

Mend

Strongwall/disintegrate

Genesis

reveal settlement

and maybe give us a rite spell.. cant be fair only WL spells have one.. Rite of spring, ritual of summer and holy crop..

apparently once BL had rite of death but for some unknown reason it was removed..

http://puu.sh/X5lu

http://puu.sh/X5lJ

and theres probably more great utility spells that are WL only.. while BL only have truehit & fungus that i would consider somewhat unique to BL side.. in terms of utility.

[JackBurton 903]

I'm for anything you want to do. Seriously. As long as you give Fo some offensive spells. And give Mag and Vyn some healing spells...you know, to balance them out.

BTW, quick question...if being a BL priest is so shitty, then why are there so many of them?

[Julepalme 39]

I'm for anything you want to do. Seriously. As long as you give Fo some offensive spells. And give Mag and Vyn some healing spells...you know, to balance them out.

BTW, quick question...if being a BL priest is so shitty, then why are there so many of them?

im not saying they are shitty overall.. they are used for pvp.. but as ive said about 20 times in this thread already.. my focus both in the Original post and now is on the lack of PvE/Utility spells for some reason BL was designed to be as carebear unfriendly as possible.. unlike both fo mag and vyn who have a lot of nice utility for non-pvp people.

and it seems noone wants to discuss that shortcoming.. all just bashing their heads against the wall focusing on pvp.. which i totally agree lib priests are too op in pvp.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Julepalme

[Protunia 735]

Making all the gods the same would be lame and you might as well just erase all faiths and just make everyone have the same spells if you are going to go this route.

Besides BL is the dead, bad, evil, war, banished, etc Kindgom and should not have WL type spells anyhow to do good things.

If you want to be WL then change faiths and then pick the one good god you like.

I cannot see cherry picking the good spells from the 3 WL gods and giving them to the Evil Faith.

Oh and I might as well. -1

Edited August 20, 2012 by Protunia

[Entendu 1,197]

Libila is a pvp god.

Lock thread.

[Julepalme 39]

Making all the gods the same would be lame and you might as well just erase all faiths and just make everyone have the same spells if you are going to go this route.

Besides BL is the dead, bad, evil, war, banished, etc Kindgom and should not have WL type spells anyhow to do good things.

If you want to be WL then change faiths and then pick the one good god you like.

I cannot see cherry picking the good spells from the 3 WL gods and giving them to the Evil Faith.

^^ thats almost what BL have atm.. about 26 of our spells are the same in one way or another to WL spells.. hardly no variety, exactly what im trying to get some focus on..

Again heres you saying every Hots is evil.. evil people dont breed horses apparently, or locate settlements, or make mines they might want to collapse (just a few examples)

All we are to WL are enemies.. we arent people who like to play the game. .we are expected to pvp only i guess.

And im all for getting more unique spells into the game for each side.. but as i said before.. WL have 33 unique spells.. BL has 7.. rest of BL spells we share with WL in one way or another..

So as you said.. im all for making BL spells more different than WL.. or adding another priest to BL that has more unique spells instead of leaving us with copies of most of WL spell

if it was up to me there would be almost no similar spells on either side.. every god would have 30 unique spells. and BL would have atleast 1 more god.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Julepalme

[Wossoo 1,915]

for some reason BL was designed to be as carebear unfriendly as possible

This is intended, because unless you dont know, you're meant to be a realy dark kingdom of the base of society. You're meant to be semi-uncivilised barbarians who, if you have forgotten, can eat human flesh and you pray at corpses.

This is also why your kingdom cannot do diplomacy or ally with other kingdoms, or have BL PMKs, because for game purposes your kingdom and religion is not just another full kingdom, its a specialised outlaw barbarian uncivilised cannibalistic horde of really bad people who just want to mess up your day and loot your stuff, not breed horses and do enchants.

BL need to realise this and stick to what they are built to do and if they can't take it then convert to one of the other kingdoms, there's virtually nothing stopping you.

Life in BL is supposed to be harder except if you want to go around killing.

[JackBurton 903]

Do you understand anything about BL/HoTS lore? Do you realize the only place you can be BL is on the PvP server? It is the true PvP kingdom, set up to be that way for a reason. I don't think you've given it much thought chief.

[Julepalme 39]

Do you understand anything about BL/HoTS lore? Do you realize the only place you can be BL is on the PvP server? It is the true PvP kingdom, set up to be that way for a reason. I don't think you've given it much thought chief.

Again with the .. oh but BL is only pvp.. okay you keep believing that because the lore says so..

lets not balance it at all then.. lets just remove any pve feature from BL the abilty to do any mining, smithing etc.. and just give them double damage in pvp.. because thats apparently all BL should do am i right?

[Protunia 735]

Again with the .. oh but BL is only pvp.. okay you keep believing that because the lore says so..

lets not balance it at all then.. lets just remove any pve feature from BL the abilty to do any mining, smithing etc.. and just give them double damage in pvp.. because thats apparently all BL should do am i right?

LOL! I think you should just quit while you're behind and not dig this hole any deeper.....

Edited August 20, 2012 by Protunia

[Julepalme 39]

LOL! I think you should just quit while you're behind and not dig this hole any deeper.....

well thats your opinion.. but the spreadsheet and anything else ive said still stands and im serious when i said BL are getting the shaft when it comes to pve/utility spells.. and if noone else wants to see it or admit i say they are ignorant. obvious from the count done on the spreadsheet..

and ofc that other one was just to respond in a language he would understand.. because big generalisation about kingdoms is easy to do.. instead of discussing the subject at hand looking at the facts presented.

Easy for WL to just dismiss the facts put out and my cries for equality..

we have 7 unique spells WL have 33.. remove 12 spells from WL goods to bring it down to 21.. be even then with 1 to 3 gods..

or add 4 to BL.. giving it 11 to 33 unique spells pr side.

not like BL totally have 36 spells avaiable or so.. rough estimate.. where WL have around 62 spells on their side to use.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Julepalme

[conloch 344]

BL the pvp kingdom...

[Protunia 735]

The time is ripe for the culling of the herd of those who blindly serve the three, those strong enough to serve, must be drawn out and brought before her, and the weak must be cut down.

Blood must flow to sate the thirst of the goddess, and you, are called to make the wounds.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Protunia

[Julepalme 39]

yeah yeah.. continue perpetuating the stereotype of pvp only kingdom.. so fresh.

[Derp 310]

I have to agree with the others, BL is a choice, you're not forced into any kingdom or religion. There's no requirement for all religions or kingdoms to be exactly equal, otherwise they're pointless names with the same spells and abilities. If you make it a copy of the others, why not just call it Horde of The Same and paste everything over? Meh.

Why are you BL/hots? What did you want to achieve when you chose BL?

Edited August 20, 2012 by Derp

[Sevoflurane 141]

I remember Lib priest were pretty strong on the early stages of Epic, specially. They are also able to cast the best weapon spell available, i don't see a reason to buff BL

The only reason Lib priests were strong was because they were miles ahead in faith compares to WLers due to mass sermons...

[Julepalme 39]

I have to agree with the others, BL is a choice, you're not forced into any kingdom or religion. There's no requirement for all religions or kingdoms to be exactly equal, otherwise they're pointless names with the same spells and abilities. If you make it a copy of the others, why not just call it Horde of The Same and paste everything over? Meh.

Why are you BL/hots? What did you want to achieve when you chose BL?

Exactly no reason BL has to be a copy of the other gods.. as i said.. 27-29~ of the spells BL have is a more or less direct copy of a similar WL spells.. we have almost no spells with effects we can say is our own.. besides maybe rotting wounds.. but even Fo has poison enchant.

Change up some of our spells to make them feel more unique maybe.. and give us more pve spells instead of having 10 more or less redundant pvp spells. i dont think we need 3 aoe spells, and 4 different direct dmg spells and 3 different zombie ressing spells..

Even our own spells are barely tweaked copies of each other.. worm brains, rotting gut, drain health and to some extent phantasm. not to mention fungus trap, pain rain and scorn of libila.. 1 static, 1 instant and 1 also heals.. but why do we need 3 spells for that .. other kingdoms make do fine with 1-2 aoe and 1-2 direct dmg spells.. with varying effect.. like doing dmg to structures aswell or healing aswell..

And i went hots from freedom to support my friends who wanted to pvp. personally im a stay at home work on the deed kind of guy mostly.. make tools/weapons/gear etc for people and breed horses.. dont see why thats so strange people cant grasp the concept some BL wanna play this way.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Julepalme

[Suntzu 644]

Every god has its advantages and disadvantages, as it should be. I think Mag should have the locate spell and be able to bash but hwa do I know?

BL is also the only kingdom that can easily kill templars with a spell. you guys dont have to touch a templar to raid a deed...