Alpha Animals

[Direwolf 8]

Okay so I had a thought about a way to make the hunting on Wurm a little more interesting and dangerous at the same time.

There are already animal conditions so I know this can be done in a way, also the Troll king and Goblin leader show this coding to be plausible as well so I don't want to hear "it would be to hard to code" or anything of the sort, if you don't have any actually useful information to post please move on to the next topic.

Now that is out of the way my idea was to implement Alpha versions of creatures into the game. The concept is to have one dominant creature that leads a group of five+ others. The condition of alpha would increase it's size to around x1.2-x1.7 that of the normal character model. It would also increase the attack strength, attack speed, stamina, and defense of said creature by at least a factor of x1.5 for each.

The age of said creature in question would have to be mature or older in order to have the status. When highlighted their name would say "Mature Alpha Black Wolf" or perhaps with Alpha at the end of the name in parenthesis like one of our titles. If you wanted to you could take it a step further and make it to where once a alpha gets too old a younger "usurper" of sorts could take it's place either by sheer transfer of power or through the killing of the old alpha(this part might be too hard to code).

Adding this idea into the game would make it harder by a considerate amount to hunt, thus making it basically a requirement to hunt and play with others. I believe that this would increase the fun while out hunting and would make it to where villages that have more than one or two people are more common. or at least communities of a great amount of homesteads near one another pop up making it easier to get together with your allies to go on a hunting trip.

Obviously not every creature in this game would roam in packs, trolls only around the king, same for goblins with the leader. Crocs, anacondas, scorpions, hell scorpious, cave bugs(?), and fiends would all be alpha-less creatures. But the rest of the creatures from my knowledge are pack/group/herd animals. Not so sure about spiders, boars, and bears(both types) however.

The rest being; bison, wolf, bull/cow, chicken, deer, dog, horses, hell horses and hell hounds(not so sure about these cause they are strong alone), rats, gorillas, lions, pheasents, pigs, hyenas, unicorns, and cats. All would be pack animals.

Feel free to post any and all constructive criticism. My goal with this idea is to make the game more community driven, I for one think that everyone having their own deed is one of the main reasons people leave this game so easily. They go out, get their deed done then get bored and quit, leaving tons of ruins in their wake.

Thanks for reading that long post,

Direwolf.

---------------------EDITED Parts of the idea----------------------

I don't want to modify the original post so here are the modifications to the original idea.

- Alphas can't be penned, they walk through locked or unlocked gates and bash down pens with no gates

- The Alpha title is not a genetic trait and therefore can't be breed to produce more alphas.

- Due to the previous two edits Alphas can not be tamed.

- Aggro or not if one member of the pack is attacked all the members attack the intruder in defense. Thus making it harder to hunt anything at all.

- Make the Alphas the spawn or have them create a spawn for their pack alone in which they roam a minimum 25 tile circumference around that spawn.

- Reproduction if there is a male and a female and room in the pack. Giving the idea that the pack will have little ones to look after. If a baby is attacked the pack defends.

- Later if running animals are implemented(animals that run from hunters) make it to where if the alpha is attacked they all defend, if any other is attacked they all scatter in a group, save maybe one or two defend.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Direwolf

[Wiro 370]

We need ideas like THIS instead of the rainbow zoo we have now.

[junkkmann 82]

i like this idea, +1

would make it much more interesting to end up being hunted when out hunting

[Hussars 511]

Interesting, maybe to fill in between the normal and champion class?

Only thing I can see without breaking the idea down would be, of the identified creatures, only a couple (wolves and variations, cats and variations) are global aggro.

The livestock creatures you might want to give a pass on this. Unless (I hate to utter this thought due to the possible backlash/flame material) these "alphas" had traits you could breed for.

Also, how will this impact the animal cap (discussed heavily in the congestion threads)?

Edited August 14, 2012 by Hussars

[Direwolf 8]

Hussars, this idea isn't entirely for aggro animals. It is for a more realistic feel to the game, all of the "livestock" creatures would in reality run in herds, making it easier to find them in a way. I see no valid reason why you want to pass on them.

Also why should this affect the animal cap in any way? The animals are there, it's not like the alpha will spawn new ones so what you do is make it to where the animals when spawned walk around alone, until they find a pack that has space, the server from what I understand has a tracker on the number of each type of animals. Use that to spawn a certain amount of alphas that will make packs as they move on.

Or what you could do is make each alpha the spawn, get rid of dens and then just keep the pop limiter on. I don't exactly know how the animal cap works but it should be a certain number per animal in my opinion, not a certain amount in general, if it is indeed that way.

Or if you like the idea of dens make it to where the alpha creates(spawns) a den for his pack and that is where the pack spawns from. The pack roams a 25-50 tile radius around its den so when one spawns it can easily join the others.

There are many more ways you could introduce this and it would have no affect on the animal cap.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Direwolf

[Hussars 511]

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept, just have questions about it and how it would be applied in-game.

Cap issues (aggro/non-aggro caps are explained much better in the congestion threads than I could do here):

It's more from the view of, are these creatures something that breeds will want to breed more of? Because if there are any reasons to keep and/or breed these animals, they will be. Which potentially impacts the creature count on the server (and why I raised it in reference to the congestion threads).

Pack Behavior:

As to pack mentality in livestock breeds, I took from the original post that this was more of a suggestion to increase the need/reason for hunters to group up to take down a more common "big game" target without the need for more champion spawns. This was reinforced by the stats you outlined to be modified by the "Alpha" status.

I'm not currently an animal hunter, so I honestly don't know if there is a need for it with livestock, but since livestock mobs specifically have such low values to being with, this stat modification might not be worth the investment. Unless there are players "hunting" the livestock specifically for combat and wanted a greater challenge for some reason?

Other comments:

The alpha as a den idea is interesting, how would you want to keep it from being exploited and farmed? The fast/dirty idea is maybe (and this is another of those "I don't want to mention, but" ideas) alpha's can bash out of enclosures?

[Direwolf 8]

Okay so if I understand you correctly, which I hope I do is that you are worried about people adding alphas to their farms, to breed more alphas? Well the way I see it is as follows, the alpha title isn't a genetic thing which is why I suggested it be added as a title.

Yes I did imply it to be more for dangerous hunting, but I forgot to add in the fact that if one member of the pack is attacked then they all defend that animal. Aggro or not which makes hunting anything at all more dangerous.

You bring up a valid point, Alphas should not be allowed to be penned. Make it to where alphas bash out of pens that have no gate and implement an idea that they are too smart to be caged, meaning they can walk through gates, locked or not(tower guards do it so I know it is possible)

If I didn't answer any questions I apologize. Tell me if I missed any and I will answer.

To get a better idea of this I added a modified section to the OP.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Direwolf

[Hussars 511]

hehe no worries, was why I didn't want to go too far into breaking down the idea, like I said, I like the concept.

The attacking an alpha, brings support from the others was assumed from my side, and having any reason to even try to pen an alpha could lead to some very... interesting... results if it was an aggro creature (which kicks on the auto attack defaults for some users)

Again though, for most livestock breeds, even "wild" livestock (gazelle, deer, etc...), they tend to sacrifice one to save the herd.. a more likely reaction would be they scatter (maybe 1 or 2 go aggro) or flee from the combat unless given no other choice.

Either way, good luck with it, will be interesting to see how it develops

Edited August 14, 2012 by Hussars

[Direwolf 8]

Again though, for most livestock breeds, even "wild" livestock (gazelle, deer, etc...), they tend to sacrifice one to save the herd.. a more likely reaction would be they scatter (maybe 1 or 2 go aggro) or flee from the combat unless given no other choice.

Very true, but seeing as currently in wurm you can walk right up to a horse or deer without complete real world affects, right now they would all attack but later on if running/scattering is implemented we can address the idea that if the alpha is attacked all defend, if any other is attacked they scatter.

Also I am adding the idea that they reproduce on their own if a male and a female are present and there is room in the pack. Giving to the idea that the pack will have little ones to look after.

[Protunia 735]

I will tell what will happen if you do this....outrage that there are super hard animals in packs running around.

But sure go ahead and make some more animals like no gumps and spiritdragons...etc...

It's always a good thing to have more variety in game of creatures to kill and be afraid of!!!

[Direwolf 8]

Yeah people will be mad, but everyone always has something to say after every major change, a few quit cause of it but then it settles down and people get used to it. I personally like the idea and I think a lot of others would as well.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I like the idea, but agree it should not be introduced with domesticated animals. It would serve little purpose on a farm, as the animals are penned. And there is a difference between herd behavior and pack behavior. But to have Alphas leading wild packs, that sounds a lot more fun for hunting. Watch out for that lone wolf, his pack and the Alpha leader may be nearby.

[Kadore 926]

Sounds a lot like the linked creatures in EQ2, pull one pull them all, this what going for?

[darthryan 588]

Only thing wrong with this that I can see, is that this will destroy templars... low FS person sitting on his deed, pack comes out of the woods, they're pretty much screwed unless they have a few templars.

[Direwolf 8]

Change the pathing so that alphas and packs don't enter deeds. Problem solved.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Only thing wrong with this that I can see, is that this will destroy templars... low FS person sitting on his deed, pack comes out of the woods, they're pretty much screwed unless they have a few templars.

Don't see how it would destroy Templars, in fact it would make them more needed by the new player, especially per your example.

Change the pathing so that alphas and packs don't enter deeds. Problem solved.

Problem not solved, many would want the animals to follow them ondeed just so the Templar would kill them. They don't want to be trapped on a deed waiting for the pack to leave.

[darthryan 588]

A templar can't target more than one animal at once. With any decent number of any creature, the templar would be killed.

[Zekezor 3,188]

A templar can't target more than one animal at once. With any decent number of any creature, the templar would be killed.

inb4 rolf implements this purely due to the comment above.

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

Wait, so the whole pack follows the alpha? So if I were to, say, ride the alpha horse/bear around, his entire herd/pack would follow me? This seems silly, -1

[Torgrim 403]

I like this idea. It's a variant of what exists in most other games today. It often exists both as solo content, one slightly buffed up leader with very weak minions, or as group content with a strong leader and normal strength minions.

In a sandbox like Wurm it's hard to introduce this though. while, for experienced players or groups of players this would be mostly a fun addition but for new players or players that don't like fighting it will be horrible if these groups of aggros could spawn just anywhere.

In theme park MMOs you can typically choose which zone or part of a zone you want to fight in. Zones have different difficulty, group size requirements etc. In Wurm, there are no zones or special areas, players have no choice to opt out of the harder fights.This is the biggst problem I think, everything else can be solved some way or another.

Maybe if there are "hard mode" servers introduced with much harder mobs. Or if we could have new terrain types that spawn harder creatures. In this way you could choose not to go into those areas...

Edited August 15, 2012 by Torgrim

[Bernd 0]

Maybe if there are "hard mode" servers introduced with much harder mobs. Or if we could have new terrain types that spawn harder creatures. In this way you could choose not to go into those areas...

A way to calculate wilderness zones depending on structures nearby, maybe relative to the server.

+1 to packs, Alphas are not necessary

[Torgrim 403]

A way to calculate wilderness zones depending on structures nearby, maybe relative to the server.

Wilderness "zones" or areas is not a bad idea (runecraft? ), but you can't calculate them based on structures because then you wouldn't have any wilderness left on a server when it gets a bit older. I think these areas would have to be predetermined somehow, maybe somewhat dynamic but it can't be based just on where people build stuff.

[Bernd 0]

Wilderness "zones" or areas is not a bad idea (runecraft? ), but you can't calculate them based on structures because then you wouldn't have any wilderness left on a server when it gets a bit older.

That's what I ment with relative, so the regions with less structures will always be the most haunted.