What Would You Change To Make Wurm More Attractive To Players?

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I apologize Hussars, but checking the other threads I do not see one that goes along with server resets, and I would like to add just 1 more item to that idea. I think it should not have a preset time when it will reset, but an endgame scenario where it becomes necessary. Hope you can add that to the suggestion and not ask me to start a separate thread. I'd rather see the PVP players work out the details of the idea themselves than try to tell them how it should work.

[Hussars 511]

No problem,

I'll update the item to reflect this option as well.

As to moving the discussion, in an effort to keep the thread under the flame/heat limit, we're trying to keep the discussion on any one aspect limited since if it takes more than 3 posts, it is likely to begin to devolve (usually quickly lol). This would also allow for a topic to specifically work it out within, and not have to worry about cross-talk from other items/discussions.

I think it is an interesting idea, and have a couple possible suggestions to add to the pot (always happy to share an opinion - just look at my post history lol), but the GM's/CM/CA will ding me just as hard as everyone else if I derail my own thread (again lol). From the feedback/responses, I think it could do well on its own, and if you do start a topic for it, let me know and I'll a link next to the roll-up entry

Edited August 14, 2012 by Hussars

[Farmerbob 369]

One thing that turns off a lot of players is that priests are nearly unplayable unless you are a PVP junkie. If you want a priest, it's pretty much always going to be an alt, which means you have to dual client and deal with multiple toons at once rather than just having fun on one.

Priests either need to be allowed to have a few skills they can use to build and improve selected types of items based on religion

OR

Make enchanting items work like improving items. Instead of casting once every 5 minutes on an alt for three hours until you get a good enchantment, you would cast on an item to enchant it with a very low enchantment, and then use favor and idols for improvement. Channeling would work like other improvement skills, and one's channeling would limit the power of the enchantment. The quality of idols would actually have meaning. Players could actually CRAFT enchantments actively, instead of parking an alt and alt-tabbing.

[Hussars 511]

Does this apply only to Vyn? Or would a Fo or Mag priest have the same issues?

[Keldun 335]

All priests can be played very nicely in a village, they have enough skills available. My priest for example is so busy that I can't really run a second client.

However a priest can't really be a hermit on his own, there is too much they need help with.

And with the current situation, you can't really rely on others. The population is spread so thin that if one of your neighbours leaves there is a good chance you won't have another to provide the skills. That's why a lot of players feel the need to have everything themselves.

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

To the point of players leaving, they already are. This is an attempt to either recover those leaving and/or attract a new generation of players. While I agree, I like the game as it is (warts and all), those who live in a bubble, have nothing when the bubble eventually bursts.

[...]

Thank you for the feedback! Any suggestions to add to the list?

Please keep in mind that we're trying to keep it friendly, adding fuel to the fire only pushes us closer to a flame thread which would be locked.

Hussars, it's a well known fact in the MMO world that keeping seasoned players is much more important than winning new players. The seasoned players are "hooked" already, and they have already shown their readiness to contribute to the success of the game. Whereas the new players will only improve to seasoned players at a rather low rate.

So a seasoned player is much more beneficial to the game, compared to a new player, that maybe has a 10% chance to stay for longer.

Your thread title "What Would You Change To Make Wurm More Attractive To Players?" doesn't exactly express an emphasis of "winning new players", nor does your OP.

"Making it more attractive" is what I read, and I hope to have been able to contribute to this. I talked about the reasons of why so many seasoned players around me has left, a fact that, IMHO, hurts the game a lot.

As a "High Citizen" of Halcyon (*proud*), and one of the maintainers of the Kinoss Bay Canal I really could cry thinking of all the dedicated and committed players that left for good, enraged due to poor changes in the game mechanics, during the recent years. I could cry thinking of all these great neighbors, and villagers, that have spent this much dedication for this game, and only went for good because of poor management, and because of Rolf's destructive love of a part of the game that never ever really worked yet.

In my humble opinion "winning new players" isn't the problem, we get plenty of them. And quite some even stay, because this is just a great game. We aren't short of newbies, the problem Wurm has, IMHO again, that we're losing ways too many of those that finally made into "paying mode". And this hurts much more.

So, from my view, our problem isn't to make the game more appealing to new players. Our problem is to keep them, after they premmed and bought their deed, finally! And here we have massive deficits, too many come in, get hooked, spent some money to set up an upscale deed, and then get hit by Rolf's nerf bat, over and over then. Until they have enough, and are gone. Huge deeds, with lots of upkeep, deserted, all over the place.

I apologize should I be leading this thread to a direction not meant as such. I'd stop posting further, if desired, just tell me. But I'm quite sure that this is a part of the topic, and not a ignorable one.

We might change the game in any way, maybe even making a WoW clone of it. But will it be Wurm, then, still?

Be careful of what you ask for. And have a good time!

[Mormo 353]

Equalize fighting skills of all players on pvp server/servers to make combat system more attractive for pvp newbies and to encourage them to take part in fighting

[Nimba 16]

I would like to see whether servers are up or down from the main website.

It must be very confusing for new players when they are trying to first run the game and don't know how to access irc if the servers are down. It's confusing for old players at that. ok, ok. I know I'm just generally confused.....

[Hussars 511]

Updated OP.

(Again I apologize for the wall of text)

To clarify, and to address a point Xandra's post raises, this thread is to highlight items that you as a player, feel would benefit Wurm to make it more enjoyable/more attractive for as many people as possible. I'm not a GM/CM/CA and have no connection to Wurm or the company or the people behind the scenes. I'm a player.

The player base of Wurm, like every other game, has its highs and lows, but Wurm itself allows for a level of world interaction only seen in a VERY small number of games. However, this as it exists currently, it fails to retain new players, and is losing established players.

Why?

So I started this thread as a chance for other players to suggest ideas, point to other ideas they support, and to provide a quick summary of the points for the community (player and Dev) to follow/track the discussions more easily.

Xandra, believe it or not, I appreciate the comments and feedback, you helped point out a preceived disconnect on the focus and I want to clarify that as well. (The rest is not specifically aimed at anyone, but just a long statement of my idea/stance to clarify some of the points raised)

I'm not targeting new players or Vets, PVP or PVE, I want to target everyone. What do we, as players, feel would be a benefit to the player base in general? What can we ask for the development team to consider changing that helps increase the retention of ALL players, not just one group over (or at the cost of) the other? What are we willing to compromise on in order to do this?

Because there will be compromises.

While Rolf and his team will always have to make decisions that will likely be unfair to some people, or favor someone else, or universally hated by everyone, at the base of it all is compromise. The development team has had to compromise on the vision of the game and the world in which it lives, players have had to compromise on elements of gameplay where the development vision is not able/willing to be compromised. So we can either attempt to be part of the process constructively, or continue to have the compromises imposed.

The idea is that if we let the development team know what we're willing to compromise on in order to gain something else, it makes their choice easier. It can help them to look at what we have and where we are as a community, and as a community, what we are willing to do (or give up) to help the game not only survive, but thrive.

Focusing on one group alone does not achieve this. If you focus on only retaining the current subscriber base/Vets, eventually they will still stop playing for various reasons, be it health related, family, change in what attracts them to the game, loss of income, etc... the same can be said about focusing only on new players, or PVP vs PVE, and this is what I was referring to as the "bubble" previously. Ultimately, the game needs the ability to do both, bring in new players and retain both the new and the Vet, PVP vs PVE.

I'm just trying to make it easier for everyone to help contribute to find that point of balance.

Next,

Equalize fighting skills of all players on pvp server/servers to make combat system more attractive for pvp newbies and to encourage them to take part in fighting

Since this is PVP based feedback, is your primary character PVP or PVE? (So I know to list it under PVP player suggestion or PVE "Would bring me in")

Also, how would you like to see this occur? On the face of it, it would appear to be a serarate combat system than what is seen in the PVE combat system, and want to make sure I have the right intent of your suggestion.

[Hussars 511]

Updated OP in the Customer Support section - Item #4 is now being partially addressed with the increased PR presense and better use of the Update tabs of the patcher.

[Farmerbob 369]

Does this apply only to Vyn? Or would a Fo or Mag priest have the same issues?

If you were referring to my priest post, it applies to all priests. There are very, very few people who play Wurm that will play a priest as a main character because they are so abysmally helpless to actually do anything other than kill and cast.

In short, priests of all types, while they can be interesting to play in some scenarios, are unable to meaningfully craft in a game that is DEFINED by crafting...

Edited August 16, 2012 by Farmerbob

[Postes 5,282]

I think the initial strart-up grind is a bit tough. I showed my friend Wurm, and it was just so slow for him to start. Getting to 21 body control is like molasses for a new players especially when they are not lucky to have CoC or sleep bonus. I think it's really tough to get started, but once you get to that medium-level it becomes very easy to craft and turbonerd skills up faster.

Just that initial push of 21 body and strength is hard. Getting to 20 FS is usually a pain because there is little low-level animals that give skill but are easy, spiders are too strong for a newb, and yet wolves/dogs give no FS. I just wish the transition into the game was a bit more easier for new people.

Really the whole 21 body control to ride a horse thing is a pain, I realize its only a 1.5 gain needed form a start account, but man. Horses are so crucial for the game that I just think it's horrendous for new players to deal without them.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Postes

[Wiro 370]

I think things like harvesting actions being cancelled cause you had a seed active are things that need to be taken out. Wurm has lots of odd flaws like that. And the bugs.

[Hussars 511]

Updated op to include:

• skill gain adjustment for FS (0-20)
  
• Reevaluate stat progression speed for new players
  
• Reevaluate Horse Riding stat requirements
  
• Added Bug Fixes section to Customer Support - Including two suggestions to help track public/customer reported issues.
  

I think things like harvesting actions being cancelled cause you had a seed active are things that need to be taken out. Wurm has lots of odd flaws like that. And the bugs.

To clarify: Are you referring to the context menu system? Or after you queue a series of actions they terminate due to the seed becoming the Active item?

[Protunia 735]

Yeah everything is so hard as a new player might as well give them 40 skills to start that way the game is easy for all players......

Listen the game is supposed to make you work for it and 21 BC is not that hard at all to do in a week, plus they can ride cows sooner right???

Area's of spawning types for lower skilled fighters I could see, but they can train in safety to 20 without anything hitting them if they want.

I do not think we need to lower BC for horses, nor do I think we need speed up stat gain.

[Contested]

Edited August 18, 2012 by Protunia

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

In light of this thread http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/65675-customer-service/ I have something to add to your Customer Support section.

24/7/365 Customer Support for administrative/customer account issues.

[cedarsever 2]

Graphics; improve 'em. It's the reason most of the people I try to convert don't come to the game. They're really excited until they play. The screenshots look good, but the player models and the animations are very disappointing - that's the truth.

I really agree with this. Player-models and customization can seem trivial, especially in a game like Wurm, but this is a real gate for entry. I tried to show a friend Wurm, a friend who enjoys games like Dwarf Fortress and the like, only to have them laugh hysterically while watching my carbon-copy JK avatar "animate" mining while the pickaxe magically remained floating at his side. It was very hard to convince him that the game was worth playing after something like that.

Player models need to be better, show gear (which I understand is coming), and feel unique to your character (via customization). I feel this single hurdle would get more players beyond that first few hours of Wurm to see the awesome world that lies in wait.

Plus, there are lots of practical problems with everyone on your screen looking exactly the same and requiring a mouse-over to differentiate. Working with even a few friends becomes a logistical challenge of keeping everyone straight. It takes 2-3 times as long to locate the right person as to trade them, say, a trowel, and while this amounts to a few moments it both adds up over and is an unnecessary annoyance.

Love the game, and I think with a few small tweaks many more people would make it past that first few days into full-on Wurmdiction.

Edit: Floaties for newcomers. I am new to Wurm, I've been playing just over a month, and I do NOT think newbies need a skill boost. To be fair I play on Epic and enjoy the boost there, but I knew getting into Wurm that time investment was required for success, and have at *no* point felt like I am stuck behind some initial grind that I must finish in order to "start." Actually quite the contrary: the longer something seems to take, the more it feels rewarding to train it/reach a certain level. I have yet to "grind" anything- I am going from goal to goal and the leveling comes in the process.

Finally, I think giving newbies a boost is actually a dis-service. It sets up unrealistic expectations for training, as when the boost is taken away your skill gain now seems *even slower* than if you had never had a boost...

Edited August 19, 2012 by cedarsever

[cedarsever 2]

Equalize fighting skills of all players on pvp server/servers to make combat system more attractive for pvp newbies and to encourage them to take part in fighting

This sounds absolutely horrible. -1

Edit: More info.

In a game about skills and time investment vs. reward, equalizing like this sounds awful. Basically, there is no more use to training or building your character, it becomes only about numbers of bodies. I am by no means a veteran here, but that sounds to me like the side that can run the most clients on their PCs, wins. A much worse problem than any skill deficit between newbs and vets...

Also I think you may be mixing ideas, making me equal in skill to another player does nothing to change my outlook (positive or negative) RE: the combat system. The comabt experience maybe, but the system remains the same, it's just mostly meaningless because everyone has equal skill levels.

Edited August 19, 2012 by cedarsever

[ReaverKane 363]

This sounds absolutely horrible. -1

Edit: More info.

In a game about skills and time investment vs. reward, equalizing like this sounds awful. Basically, there is no more use to training or building your character, it becomes only about numbers of bodies. I am by no means a veteran here, but that sounds to me like the side that can run the most clients on their PCs, wins. A much worse problem than any skill deficit between newbs and vets...

Also I think you may be mixing ideas, making me equal in skill to another player does nothing to change my outlook (positive or negative) RE: the combat system. The comabt experience maybe, but the system remains the same, it's just mostly meaningless because everyone has equal skill levels.

Problem on your argument is that atm the side that wins is the one with more clients that has been playing the longest.

[cedarsever 2]

Problem on your argument is that atm the side that wins is the one with more clients that has been playing the longest.

But how is this remedied by the suggestion of which I disapprove?

[GravityDog 41]

The hard v/s accessible approach for the starting characters seems to depend on which players you target.

If you want a larger quantity of people make it easyer, If you want to cater to the grinder types keep it as it is.

Perhaps a change to the first part of the epic curve but no change on the other servers would work.

[Hussars 511]

Updated OP and My apologies for some of the items I previously missed.

For the skill gain adjustments, the category has been updated to HEAVILY CONTESTED.

Finally, for the combat system, I think a large portion of the game's population would agree that something needs to be done, I'm just collecting ideas here. If you'd like to discuss the ideas further, please start a thread specific to your take on it or join in on one of the existing threads dedicated to the topic. Feel free to link back or provide a link here and I'll add it to the roll-up.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Hussars

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

I think the initial strart-up grind is a bit tough. I showed my friend Wurm, and it was just so slow for him to start. Getting to 21 body control is like molasses for a new players especially when they are not lucky to have CoC or sleep bonus.

While I think quick skill gain would be beneficial to the PvP servers, I'd strongly oppose it for the PvE servers.

You'd take away any incentive, every "WOOOt!", any joy to have done it, finally. 21 BC isn't this much - as long as you're in a village, have some help & knowledge available, you'll have it on day 3 of your premium time.

Why sissify the game even more?

A strong NO from me for such approaches. This is only further mainstreaming Wurm, deliberately loosing it's unique points of selling, in the wrong hope that maybe than, if we'd have made the game simple enough, it would get more players - instead, it would loose all of the current player base, and still wouldn't get new players, because a WoW clone should at least yield the other WoW features, right?

If you want this for PvP only, I'm with you. I'd even promote an instant 50 skill in any area for PvP, IMHO this would help a lot to get some more participants. PvP is PvP, not slowly rising skills, after all?

But for the PvE area, even the recent "create item" patch was much overdone, IMHO, and hurting. We PvE players want to have our success experiences, and sissifying the game into oblivion isn't exactly the road to give us these.

Have a good time!

[Hussars 511]

Hello Xandra,

The skill/stat gains have already been marked as contested.

Without getting into an open discussion on it but to show why I included it, my take on the general idea is to level out the early curve to make the game more approachable for people with no previous experience in Wurm, not to remove the feeling of achievement. Basically, make the early curve more gradual, say a 45 degree wall in place of a 90 degree sheer cliff.

As for PVP suggestions, I don't know who the current list of active PVP players are, so if you could please clarify if you are a non PVP player and this type of change would bring you into PVP gameplay, or if you are a PVP player and think this would be something that would help the current state of the PVP gameplay.

Thanks again,

-H

[Xandra 353]

Hi Hussars,

[...] my take on the general idea is to level out the early curve to make the game more approachable for people with no previous experience in Wurm [...]

Making the new player experience more enjoyable is something I support, I'd just like to remark that the initial skill gain is already crazy fast, compared to what is to expect later. It's no problem at all for a dedicated newbie (or a free alt) to rise some of its skills to 20 within a few days.

A ways more hurting problem is IMHO that the new players are now thrown into a world where they stand no chance at all to survive of their own. As soon as I see a new name in local, I know I have to fetch my horse, and get my sword & the cotton ready - because within minutes the newbie will be chased by a hungry croc, or an angry hell hound.

This way it's close to impossible for new players today to start this game other than as a member of a deed, protected, cared of, and let's be honest, utterly useless. They can't be used anymore even as haulers for bulk material, as long as they have not premmed they cannot even command a cart ...

So their choice is either to accept the welfare from a deed, or to get eaten over and over, running back and forth from the Howl (or any other starter deed) constantly.

Both choices aren't exactly helpful for the new player experience, for the retention rate, and for winning new paying players, I think.

It's a poisoned topic, I know, so I'm reluctant to suggest thinking of another kind of a "newbie server", this time avoiding the mistakes made with the Golden Valley. My studded set by far doesn't provide enough burn protection, but maybe there's another brave soul out there?

[...] you are a non PVP player and this type of change would bring you into PVP gameplay [...]

^^ This ;-) Sorry, forgot.

Thank you for the work you're doing here! It's most appreciated, and maybe it will help to make this game a better one!

Have a good time!

PS: Just read the OP again, found something missing/ needing a comment:

Suggested - Reevaluate Requirements for Horse Riding:

For the love of Fo, give them free players the ability back to ride/ command cows at least! Only cows! Maybe pigs, too? ;-))

And, maybe, re-evaluate the BC requirements for the other mounts, they seem to be quite random ...

Fight skill gains:

At the moment the skill gains from different creatures doesn't reflect their difficulty at all. A young troll gives ways less skill than a young spider ...

The FS skill gains should be directly linked to the threat and the difficulty of a mob.