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Hussars

What Would You Change To Make Wurm More Attractive To Players?

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Wurm is a sandbox, and doesn't need any kind of "end game". Yes

. And it doesn't really need char customization, animations and whatever fancy features. NO

PEOPLE ARE TURNED AWAY BY THE POOR ANIMATIONS AND LACK OF PLAYER CUSTOMIZATION Yes

The lack of animation is particularly an issue. And yes maybe you need to pick the "no animation" option if your computer is out dated.

edited. (first 3 lines are quotes w/ reply) no not adressing Keldon.

Edited by GravityDog

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Did you address me, or the thread itself?

Don't think it's me, because the WoW way would be: you need exactly one birch shaft and one piece of iron to make a medium maul and you need one oak shaft and one piece of steel to make a large axe.

And nice that you mentioned the anchor yourself, it used to be one the prime example for WLogic before the creation patch.

I mean how can I destroy a solid piece of metal by wrapping a rope around? I think for a while it didn't even become scrap it just vaporised, because you touched it with a rope!

Also, why can't I make an iron anchor? sure lead is heavier, but not heavy enough to hold a cog, Anchors work by hooking into the ground and lead would just bend.

The veterans might consider such nonsense cute (I do too), because they are used to it, but it is just weird and not a state and quality of game that should be kept forcefully.

I don't care for making things easy/difficult, but I like things making sense and in that regard both the creation buff and the lamp nerf are a step in the right direction. Would have been better though if Rolf had manage to avoid the bugs for once, or at least managed to fix them.

And that another point for the list:

If you introduce bugs, deal with them, don't drop the issue and start something else.

Edit: I found another point on the list:

Enticements - I
deas suggested by PVE players to bring in players from PVE

2. Introduce resource limits (limited max QL or specific resource types on Home servers) to promote PVP.

I do not only want to contest that, I want to suggest the exact opposite principle:

Stop trying to blackmail PvE players into doing PvP! And stop nerfing PvE players because of PvP

If they don't want to fight, they don't want to fight.

If you add any limitations, they won't fight, they'll just stay and try to deal with the limitations.

And guess what happens when the limitations become too much to deal with? They won't start fighting, they'll just leave the game.

PS: I know that home servers are PvP servers, but that just means the people there are ready to fight, not that they want to constantly have to go out raiding.

Edited by Keldun

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Hi,

Wurm isn't WoW. Wurm is a sandbox, and doesn't need any kind of "end game". Yes

. And it doesn't really need char customization, animations and whatever fancy features. NO

PEOPLE ARE TURNED AWAY BY THE POOR ANIMATIONS AND LACK OF PLAYER CUSTOMIZATION Yes

Allow me to disagree. Wurm has had many hard core long time payers, we had some deeds of those at the place we was thrown on. They was there for long as we came, but they left quite some time ago.

For what did they leave? Not for lacking features. Nobody cares of it, that has found it's love to Wurm. They dropped because of the constant silly nerfs Rolf put's upon us, for the benefit of his 6 -12 beloved PvP players.

They didn't leave for lacking "char customization, animations and whatever fancy features", they didn't leave for "POOR ANIMATIONS AND LACK OF PLAYER CUSTOMIZATION". They left, just plain, simple and clear, because nerf upon nerf was applied upon them until the barrel was full. And, don't forget, these was players spending serious money in the game.

And this will happen to new players too, they'll come, get settled, are happy, then Rolf decides that a change has to be made for his PvP bright haired children (yes, for all 3 of them), and another bunch of Freedom PvE players will be gone.

No fancy animation, no custom chars will help here - you don't see it anyways 'cause you're in enforced 1st person view. Only a 3rd person view would make all of these things valid!

But, oh hell, a 3rd person view - OMG!

Even if this would add much more to the immersion of many, compared to char customization and fancy animations ...

Before that, would we much more want a combat sytem that would make sense, more then just reading the combat tab?

Have a good time!

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I don't care for making things easy/difficult, but I like things making sense and in that regard both the creation buff and the lamp nerf are a step in the right direction. Would have been better though if Rolf had manage to avoid the bugs for once, or at least managed to fix them.

And that another point for the list:

If you introduce bugs, deal with them, don't drop the issue and start something else.

Edit: I found another point on the list:

I do not only want to contest that, I want to suggest the exact opposite principle:

Stop trying to blackmail PvE players into doing PvP! And stop nerfing PvE players because of PvP

If they don't want to fight, they don't want to fight.

If you add any limitations, they won't fight, they'll just stay and try to deal with the limitations.

And guess what happens when the limitations become too much to deal with? They won't start fighting, they'll just leave the game.

PS: I know that home servers are PvP servers, but that just means the people there are ready to fight, not that they want to constantly have to go out raiding.

To clarify the point to limit resource quality is only to provide more reason to go fight. As seen in other games mentioned through the suggestion forum, this has worked well in these other games to do two things, motivate players to PVP a bit more to bring back supplies for the less pvp motivated (full-time crafters), and promote market/player inter-connectivity/reliance. It was offered only as a suggestion in the way of compromise between PVP and PVE as it would impact both player bases on the Epic/PVP servers.

This would not be expected to implemented in the Freedom PVE based servers. That said, it has been updated to contested in the list here.

To the point of players leaving, they already are. This is an attempt to either recover those leaving and/or attract a new generation of players. While I agree, I like the game as it is (warts and all), those who live in a bubble, have nothing when the bubble eventually bursts.

That said, thank you for adding your voice on the points so far, anything to add to the list for consideration?

Hi,

Allow me to disagree. Wurm has had many hard core long time payers, we had some deeds of those at the place we was thrown on. They was there for long as we came, but they left quite some time ago.

For what did they leave? Not for lacking features. Nobody cares of it, that has found it's love to Wurm. They dropped because of the constant silly nerfs Rolf put's upon us [...]

They didn't leave for lacking "char customization, animations and whatever fancy features", they didn't leave for "POOR ANIMATIONS AND LACK OF PLAYER CUSTOMIZATION". They left, just plain, simple and clear, because nerf upon nerf was applied upon them until the barrel was full. And, don't forget, these was players spending serious money in the game.

And this will happen to new players too, they'll come, get settled, are happy, then Rolf decides that a change has to be made [...] and another bunch of Freedom PvE players will be gone.

No fancy animation, no custom chars will help here - you don't see it anyways 'cause you're in enforced 1st person view. Only a 3rd person view would make all of these things valid!

But, oh hell, a 3rd person view - OMG!

Even if this would add much more to the immersion of many, compared to char customization and fancy animations ...

Before that, would we much more want a combat sytem that would make sense, more then just reading the combat tab?

Have a good time!

Thank you for the feedback! Any suggestions to add to the list?

Please keep in mind that we're trying to keep it friendly, adding fuel to the fire only pushes us closer to a flame thread which would be locked.

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I agree with Xandra for the most part though, Hussars. There have been many nerfs that have made Wurm unattractive for many players; doing away with these would be an easy start to improving Wurm.

Edited by Kraljtatov

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I agree with Xandra for the most part though, Hussars. There have been many nerfs that have made Wurm unattractive for many players; doing away with these would be an easy start to improving Wurm.

That's not a problem, and I too dislike some of the changes made, but there are threads dedicated to trying to get these repealed. What we're looking for here is items you'd like to change specifically, what changes you'd want to make to game in general, and why you think it would be good for the game/bring in more players/etc...

The problem with listing everything that was "nerfed" that people disagree with, is that we only see the vocal players who frequent the forums. I know several people who specifically avoid the forums unless it is to check the various update threads, some agree with the recent changes, some don't and some don't care one way or the other, it's very subjective. It also leads to threads turning into personal arguments, which we've already been warned against for once.

All that said, if there are items you specifically think would be good to change, feel free to post it with any/all of the details listed above, it'll get added to the list. Wall of text is fine, I'll paraphrase for the list where I can, and if you have links for arguments for/against the change, those get added to the point as well.

Thank you all again for keeping it positive and mostly friendly lol, great ideas coming up and would love to see this continue!

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Hi,

Allow me to disagree. Wurm has had many hard core long time payers, we had some deeds of those at the place we was thrown on. They was there for long as we came, but they left quite some time ago.

For what did they leave? Not for lacking features. Nobody cares of it, that has found it's love to Wurm. They dropped because of the constant silly nerfs Rolf put's upon us, for the benefit of his 6 -12 beloved PvP players.

They didn't leave for lacking "char customization, animations and whatever fancy features", they didn't leave for "POOR ANIMATIONS AND LACK OF PLAYER CUSTOMIZATION". They left, just plain, simple and clear, because nerf upon nerf was applied upon them until the barrel was full. And, don't forget, these was players spending serious money in the game.

And this will happen to new players too, they'll come, get settled, are happy, then Rolf decides that a change has to be made for his PvP bright haired children (yes, for all 3 of them), and another bunch of Freedom PvE players will be gone.

No fancy animation, no custom chars will help here - you don't see it anyways 'cause you're in enforced 1st person view. Only a 3rd person view would make all of these things valid!

But, oh hell, a 3rd person view - OMG!

Even if this would add much more to the immersion of many, compared to char customization and fancy animations ...

Before that, would we much more want a combat sytem that would make sense, more then just reading the combat tab?

Have a good time!

Hiya,

Just thought I'd write a response to your post here.

Let me start off with saying I agree with the whole nerf thing, and that Rolf should really take more time to sit down and look at the pros/cons of each specific change he would make to wurm. I can imagine it drives off many a player who were on the verge of leaving anyway. But this thread is looking to attract NEW players and new players in the online gaming world are attracted to what? Graphics and animations. saying "For what did they leave? Not for lacking features. Nobody cares of it "

I know I for one care for features that you say "nobody cares about"

Look, wurm already has our base for players, we have our hardcore players and our new bloods - but if you want to break into the gaming market you need those "fancy" features. If you don't add those in, wurm will be stuck with the same small-medium playerbase we have already...and im sure Rolf wants MORE people playing then just the same bunch we have currently.

Cheers,

Ashoof

Edited by ashoof

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Remove the 6 hours of darkness

I think wurms "realness" factor is one that makes the game attractive, I have to disagree with you on this one...but that is probably something you'd be better making your own thread about.

but anyway -1

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Original list updated (Xandra had some good ideas/suggestions I missed first time around - My apologies Xandra)

Remove the 6 hours of darkness

Lol.. nice :)

Pros/cons for it? Anywhere you're willing to compromise on it at all?

Hiya,

Just thought I'd write a response to your post here.

Let me start off with saying I agree with the whole nerf thing, and that Rolf should really take more time to sit down and look at the pros/cons of each specific change he would make to wurm. I can imagine it drives off many a player who were on the verge of leaving anyway. But this thread is looking to attract NEW players and new players in the online gaming world are attracted to what? Graphics and animations. saying "For what did they leave? Not for lacking features. Nobody cares of it "

I know I for one care for features that you say "nobody cares about"

Look, wurm already has our base for players, we have our hardcore players and our new bloods - but if you want to break into the gaming market you need those "fancy" features. If you don't add those in, wurm will be stuck with the same small-medium playerbase we have already...and im sure Rolf wants MORE people playing then just the same bunch we have currently.

Cheers,

Ashoof

On that note, any suggestions for helping doing this?

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In hindsight my post might seem a bit rude.

However I do think it would make the game a lot more attractive if they could deal with bugs faster, some of those have been accumulting for years.

Also Ashoof I don't think this is much about attracting new players, that's as easy as placing an add with a nice description, the challenge is to keep them longer than a few days or weeks. And the sooner your veterans leave the less people you have in the game at a time.

Hussars I understand it where you are coming from when you talk about trading between the crafters and the fighters and I actually agree that such a system is favourable.

My concern is more about things that the crafters have to get themselves, because it can't be traded. Karma being the most recent example. From what I hear there is very little in the wild, but you get heaps when fighting. Granted most of the features are more usefull in combat but the lighting is sticking out. A lot of people seem to believe that the lamps were only nerfed to get us to fight for Karma. (please don't restart this discussion here) But there we go again with the need for and lack of information.

So and finally a small option that would make the game more enjoyable for a lot of people:

Make the ships more tangible, proper colision for one. Also make the deck walkable, enter over a walkway instead of teleporting, use a cabin and the hold like rooms instead of containers.

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Remove the 6 hours of darkness

I'd rather see the moons come into play, and depending on which moon(s) are in the sky at night, add a coloured light

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First, I would limit potential player's exposure to certain forums here unless they were a premium player. Mainly the entire Theater section and the Suggestion forums. Second, I would eliminate half the volunteer moderation staff simply because they are more of a nuisance than the people they tend to harass. Third, I would institute a complete reset of Epic on a yearly basis to keep that server fresh instead of just opening up a new Freedom code server. Last, I would eliminate Rolf from any future input on upcoming features to the game. They tend to do more harm than good and only make the paying customers have to figure out work arounds to his madness.

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So and finally a small option that would make the game more enjoyable for a lot of people:

Make the ships more tangible, proper colision for one. Also make the deck walkable, enter over a walkway instead of teleporting, use a cabin and the hold like rooms instead of containers.

Nice add to the list, thank you again :)

I'd rather see the moons come into play, and depending on which moon(s) are in the sky at night, add a coloured light

Ohh.. nice..environmental suggestion! Thanks :)

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First, I would limit potential player's exposure to certain forums here unless they were a premium player. Mainly the entire Theater section and the Suggestion forums. [...] Third, I would institute a complete reset of Epic on a yearly basis to keep that server fresh instead of just opening up a new Freedom code server. [...]

1 and 3 added to the list. Thanks again!

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First, I would limit potential player's exposure to certain forums here unless they were a premium player. Mainly the entire Theater section and the Suggestion forums. Second, I would eliminate half the volunteer moderation staff simply because they are more of a nuisance than the people they tend to harass. Third, I would institute a complete reset of Epic on a yearly basis to keep that server fresh instead of just opening up a new Freedom code server. Last, I would eliminate Rolf from any future input on upcoming features to the game. They tend to do more harm than good and only make the paying customers have to figure out work arounds to his madness.

Big +1 on the epic server idea

would make for a truly unique playing experience.

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Scrapping Epic every year would not make it unique it would just be redundant for players to have to start from scratch every year, wasting their time and money which is good enough reason to not play Epic; as if it wasn't bad enough already.

And as for restricting forum access for new players: If they don't like the game why would they buy premium time just to say why? Enough forum segregation suggestions please.

Edited by Kraljtatov

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Scrapping Epic every year would not make it unique it would just be redundant for players to have to start from scratch every year, wasting their time and money which is good enough reason to not play Epic; as if it wasn't bad enough already.

And as for restricting forum access for new players: If they don't like the game why would they buy premium time just to say why? Enough forum segregation suggestions please.

I agree there should be no segregation of the Forums, but the resetting of Epic has potential if handled correctly. A reset is necessary once it gets obvious that either A) all sides are completely entrenched and the battles are mere skirmishes that never advance either side or one group is so large and has such complete control that no one will ever defeat them. Sure you can argue that eventually things would change, but game players don't have the patience to wait for eventually. There may be no endgame here, but you can end up with a stale situation that goes no where and so needs to be reset.

Perhaps the PVP servers need an endgame, to signal when the reset will occur. A lot of players don't want to go PVP because it's always the same group in charge, the same lines get drawn in the sand, and no one is able to defeat the other completely. There is not a lot of excitement in the battles themselves, but it seems the biggest excitement you get. I personally don't see the excitement of battling the same village again and again and again, playing drain the token. Defeat them and take their land would make a lot more sense, and it would be a sound reason for a reset on a regular basis. I mean, if 1 side has taken over the entire map, time to start over, right?

Edited by Vroomfondel

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Understandable but it's also reasonable to think that new players wouldn't want to lose their investment (deeds, items, etc.) due to something they have no control over.

Edited by Kraljtatov

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Resets in this type of game will lead to an empty server most of the time just so you know.

The only way resets would work is if you did it daily or weekly to where nothing mattered.

And even then you would only get a small population in this type of game.

Edited by Protunia

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Understandable but it's also reasonable to think that new players wouldn't want to lose their investment (deeds, items, etc.) due to something they have no control over.

Then give some kind of partial pro-rated refund for deeds and traders. Unused money sink items would just go poof. I mean, they are called money sinks for a reason. Tie forums to one account in game or tie it to premium access. Either way, eliminate the need to have so many ###### moderators. They are buzz kills a majority of the time. If someone gets that far out of line that they have their forum account banned, then they'll have to pony up more premium money to get another account instead of one ###### after another just making new accounts to pester people with.

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Resets in this type of game will lead to and empty server most of the time just so you know.

The only way resets would work is if you did it daily or weekly to where nothing mattered.

Bro, you don't even play on Epic, so why do you give a ######?

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Understandable but it's also reasonable to think that new players wouldn't want to lose their investment (deeds, items, etc.) due to something they have no control over.

Of course the deed system would need a change too, I didn't say it wouldn't. A lot of things need to change around here before PVP is ever going to be popular.

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Bro, you don't even play on Epic, so why do you give a ######?

In general you have a building game and skilling game with Wurm, regardless of Epic or Chaos or a new PvP server resets will attract very few players and many of those that do come will leave once the power is established.

This is why making a lot shorter resets where nothing mattered would work better IMHO rather than a long drawn out time period.

Small maps and lots of action with a fast end game and reset the server without resetting the skills and you might get some people interested in the current type of PvP wurm has.

Other than that you would need to revamp PvP and make a more mainstream combat system and fun to actually do as of right now its neither of those.

It is quite obvious that what ever system you want to call it is not working at all right now to retain players and hold their interest.

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Hi all,

Adding possible epic reset to the list updated the list with a [Contested] tag.

While I continue to appreciate the comments and discussion, this has now progress to the "it needs its own thread". So please migrate it to a dedicated topic if you wish to continue discussions on the pro/cons.

Regards,

-H

Edited by Hussars

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