Sign in to follow this  
Hussars

What Would You Change To Make Wurm More Attractive To Players?

Recommended Posts

Haven't read through this thread but my top 5 list for attracting more ppl would be something like this:

1. Visible character customization with animations and coloring options

2. Fighting system overhaul. Injuries are cool as they are but the rest sucks, more interactivity, skills etc must be introduced. Players are used to more action from other games :) Also, we need more reasons to fight in groups.

3. Less lag. We have a low population currently and still the servers lag alot, this has to be fixed before getting more players on board.

4. Placing items on tables, on walls etc.

5. More Furniture (usable)

Could also add, shut down Epic servers and stick to the Freedom servers + Chaos, maybe add some options for optional PvP on normal freedom servers.

Edited by Torgrim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

actually I would really appreciate a kind of newbie server or something a small island they are not "forced" to go, maybe even called something like "playgrounds" or "testing area" or "the overall newbie experiment" server doesnt need to be big and it should be allowed to choose if you wanna go there or not (like every other server ingame too) but it would help alot of people if you are not thrown instantly into a clearly unknown world, as wurm is VERY different from other mmos, why most people start with drowning ;)

then it would be nice to have more building, creating options like different housewalls, more items with variable woodtypes, a non-aggro animal protected area, where WILD animals can grow or something, some bugs should be solved like horses vanishing on large carts or get stuck in cave walls, embarking less full of lag same for door opening and so on, player costumization, better animations and models overall, maybe even an ingame map(not a minimap) which is used like the real life maps without a marker where you are ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if a dedicated newbie server would be that good of an idea as it would be nearly empty most of the time.

But that reminds me of another idea I had:

Give people the ability to teleport back to golden valley. That way they can redo the tutorial whenever and it can be split up it separate parts, that are easier to take in and remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a poisoned topic, I know, so I'm reluctant to suggest thinking of another kind of a "newbie server", this time avoiding the mistakes made with the Golden Valley. My studded set by far doesn't provide enough burn protection, but maybe there's another brave soul out there?

Sure, I will! I started wurm a few years ago and greatly valued my time on GV. It gave me the opportunity to learn the game in a relatively safe environment on a server that wasn't overwhelming in size. I raised my some of the basic skills to 20 and moved over to Freedom which was utterly terrifying. I never understood why it was shut down and would welcome it's return!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A ways more hurting problem is IMHO that the new players are now thrown into a world where they stand no chance at all to survive of their own. As soon as I see a new name in local, I know I have to fetch my horse, and get my sword & the cotton ready - because within minutes the newbie will be chased by a hungry croc, or an angry hell hound.

This way it's close to impossible for new players today to start this game other than as a member of a deed, protected, cared of, and let's be honest, utterly useless. They can't be used anymore even as haulers for bulk material, as long as they have not premmed they cannot even command a cart ...

I must be true with you: I love that :P. A hard game divides who will endure, and who will leave no matter what. Im still here cause im a proud (too proud) and very persistent player, and actually I only care for players who can pass the 2st week. Of course I help new players with just hours or mins in the game! But I dont hope too much from them. If they survived the 1st week and keep being positives, then they are alive for me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

A hard game divides who will endure, and who will leave no matter what.

Fully agree with this, and, if you read what I've written, I strongly oppose the "making it easy" of the creation process, for instance. This not only takes some hardship away, but it also removes a lot of initial successes a new player can achieve - for instance, it's most easy now to make a mooring rope with even 6 rope making, you only need a bit of patience and a few wemp plants. Once this was something that divided the strong from the weak, and finally making my first one is something I'll remember for long.

But getting chased by crocs or such within your first days is different, IMHO. This is something you have no chance in hell to overcome, even running wouldn't help much in case of the alert ones sieging the highway near our places. They're just too fast. This isn't "hard" anymore, this is frustrating.

When I started with my first char, there were bears on GV still. And they usually spawned as young, so whenever one was encountered in the area it was code red alert for all inhabitants. We had to form a small army, the "veterans" among us bringing their mighty battle cows to the fight, and we had to kill them as fast as possible, because once they'd reach an older age, they'd become invincible.

Epic battles we had. But insanely much fun, too. Corpses littering the landscape, untamed wolf pets chewing on the ones that retreated for bandaging, but usually a dead bear, finally.

Today? Try to kill an aged Croc with any amount of new players, they will need help. From guards or ghosts, or from seasoned players. They will never be able to kill it on their own, they will never smell the sweet taste of an honest victory - without help.

I'm all for keeping Wurm the game it is - and it's a hard game, sometimes tedious, often a sheer grind. It's not a "fast game" like many of the other games out there, and it's not a game of stunning gfx. But it's a game that seems to work, a game that attracted us, a game that seems to have found a niche to comfortably survive in.

We should keep this, IMHO. Not making it more easy, but at the same time, too, not making it too hard. Having newbies thrown in a world where they mostly act as a threat and a nuisance for the deed holders, or as free meat for invincible monsters, where all but the most few die-hards cannot survive anymore without accepting help, is too much, IMHO again.

And since I'm complete OT meanwhile, I'll stop here. Sorry, it came over me ... ;-)

Have a good time!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Allow me to disagree. Wurm has had many hard core long time payers, we had some deeds of those at the place we was thrown on. They was there for long as we came, but they left quite some time ago.

For what did they leave? Not for lacking features. Nobody cares of it, that has found it's love to Wurm. They dropped because of the constant silly nerfs Rolf put's upon us, for the benefit of his 6 -12 beloved PvP players.

They didn't leave for lacking "char customization, animations and whatever fancy features", they didn't leave for "POOR ANIMATIONS AND LACK OF PLAYER CUSTOMIZATION". They left, just plain, simple and clear, because nerf upon nerf was applied upon them until the barrel was full. And, don't forget, these was players spending serious money in the game.

And this will happen to new players too, they'll come, get settled, are happy, then Rolf decides that a change has to be made for his PvP bright haired children (yes, for all 3 of them), and another bunch of Freedom PvE players will be gone.

No fancy animation, no custom chars will help here - you don't see it anyways 'cause you're in enforced 1st person view. Only a 3rd person view would make all of these things valid!

But, oh hell, a 3rd person view - OMG!

Even if this would add much more to the immersion of many, compared to char customization and fancy animations ...

Before that, would we much more want a combat sytem that would make sense, more then just reading the combat tab?

Have a good time!

I disagree. Some people quit because of the nerfs but not everyone. Most people quit because of 1 reason: boredom. After they built their deed and have achieved everything they have nothing to do but to grind skills. That is why most people quit. Nerfs make people quit aswell but not as many. Ever wonder why so many people come back to wurm when a new server opens only to quit after a few months? Because they make a deed on the new server once its done and they built everything they just quit. Also i dont know you but there hasnt been much nerfs. The lamp change wasnt because of PvPers.

Edited by atazs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

I apologize I've been a bit lax due to being a little under the weather lately, and while I hate to do it, I have to ask you to move "player motivation" discussions out of this thread. While I value everyone's opinion, these types of discussions lead to the flames and we've been warned once against this.

Again, this thread is for suggesting what you think would make the game more attractive/enjoyable/fun to as many players as possible, not to vocalize opinions as to why you think people are leaving or not playing as much, or why PVP or PVE is the gameplay style of choice. If you disagree with a suggestion, feel free to post you disagree and provide a gameplay impact for your reason. Such as:

I disagree with X, because it could reduce the impact/value/need of Y.

Thanks again for ongoing support of the topic and everyone's effort in trying to make Wurm a better game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Encourage more creative insults: Thou wert best set thy lower part where thy nose stands.

Truely the Elizabetheans were as verbal jousters. Modern english has got nothing!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

o.O

That's a new one... now where to list it?

Edit:: updated OP, added Character Interactions

Edited by Hussars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, I would like to add a minor upgrade.

- forges and ovens should be usable as only storage for things that won't be destroyed even if it gets lit (and is unlit at the moment).

just lost fifty imped arrows this way that I thought I put them into bsb... and lit the forge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, I would like to add a minor upgrade.

- forges and ovens should be usable as only storage for things that won't be destroyed even if it gets lit (and is unlit at the moment).

just lost fifty imped arrows this way that I thought I put them into bsb... and lit the forge.

Might cause a bit of an issue since people tend to use this to reduce ql to reimp or create skilling tools/items. Maybe a warning (which the user could disable) instead when you attempt to light the forge/oven that you have "destructable" items in the storage area?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Updated OP to reflect recent changes in Lamp Behavoir and to reflect the ongoing efforts of the PR team in keeping the user base much better informed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

actually I would really appreciate a kind of newbie server or something a small island they are not "forced" to go, maybe even called something like "playgrounds" or "testing area" or "the overall newbie experiment" server doesnt need to be big and it should be allowed to choose if you wanna go there or not (like every other server ingame too) but it would help alot of people if you are not thrown instantly into a clearly unknown world, as wurm is VERY different from other mmos, why most people start with drowning ;)

then it would be nice to have more building, creating options like different housewalls, more items with variable woodtypes, a non-aggro animal protected area, where WILD animals can grow or something, some bugs should be solved like horses vanishing on large carts or get stuck in cave walls, embarking less full of lag same for door opening and so on, player costumization, better animations and models overall, maybe even an ingame map(not a minimap) which is used like the real life maps without a marker where you are ;)

There is a big problem with a starter server. It was tried before, which is where GV came from. It actually hurt premium sales, as they would set up there and not be willing to move on to the premium servers and start over again. It just works better to have the new players mixed in with the general population, both to spread them out a bit and to give them experienced players to ask help or get answers to questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The engine.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=HhyyUiYQolA

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl54WZtm0QE&feature=related

The mechanics imo are trivial, if you want to appeal to a wider audience then you need to keep up with technology. People spend a alot of money on fast computers but Wurm doesn't make use of them. I know it's an indie game but I also know there are other indie games out there that aren't as in-depth as Wurm but they run a whole lot smoother because they are not limited as much by the engines they use. AFAIK, the reason why multi-story houses and bridges and flowing water and a whole bunch of other kool things are taking so long because of the limits Java has and some poor soul is racking their brain trying to work around it. That's great! but it's not very practical, especially since there are so many other options available. Let me say it like this;

You maked some babies with a woman (oi, oi), lets says you were lucky and got 4 at once. Now your mini cooper is still a good car for driving yourself around but now you need some extra seats, something which anything you do, will not make happen because you are bound by laws. So what can you do? Nothing.. You have to accept the fact your car is a classic and just doesn't meet your requirements any more. It's time to buy a new car so your family can travel in safety and comfort because you know technology is now providing better cars for your benefit. (< Best I could come up with ^)

Those links are to just show the sort of things that are available because of technology, I am no expert nor do I pretend to be but from what I can see technology is coming to the stage now where we really can have entire worlds to play on with real physics and everything on large scales, I even read some talk of an actual globe world with gravity and an orbit like a real Earth. So imo, there is no reason why Wurm shouldn't be limited by anything other than it's creator. Rolf did a great job but it's time to accept the fact, Java doesn't do the concept of Wurm justice!

That is my opinion feel free to attack it, just don't make it personal.

Edited by BeardedMan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the conversation, and no attacks on the posts (even if you are inviting them on your own posts) please lol

I think this is one of the areas where player desire comes directly into conflict with Rolf and Code Club's vision for the game. My understanding (so I could be completely wrong here) is that they are wanting to keep the game as system friendly as possible while still trying to keep it somewhat pretty. Again, I don't speak for them and I'm not associated with them beyond being a player in their game world, so don't take my statement for the end all be all fact lol. I just seem to remember Rolf or one of the team mentioning this as one of the reasons they haven't jumped over to another engine.

The new engines require much more powerful systems, and while "hardcore" gamers may update their systems every 6-12months, a large portion of the current subscribers/players in general do not fall within this group.

That said, I'll add it to the list.

Edited by Hussars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you :) I appreciated you are speaking for yourself and not Wurm. Also anyone upgrading every 6-12 months is a moron and have way to much money, as the saying goes "A fool and his money are soon parted." The fools would be those that buy into consumerism.. Morons xD

New technology that is used by some of the newer engines does require you to have hardware that supports the technology but you can't let that hold you back. People using ancient machines have to accept they need to upgrade. It sucks if you can't afford to keep up to date every 5 years or so, but life has never been fair. I don't see that as a valid reason not to improve the game because some can't play any more. The very same people that can't upgrade wouldn't stop eating even though they know not everyone in the real world is going to eat that day, they'd get their fill regardless. Why should a game be any different?

You don't need to spend thousands on a good machine to play the high end games or gain access to the technologies they use. I upgrade my computer as and when I can, one piece at a time. I understand it needs doing simply because that is the essence of technology, it evolves just like life does and you have to evolve with it or be left behind in the pages of the book that binds you.

xD Got a bit deep towards the end there, but the point remains valid!

Edit* I will say no more as I'm not looking to debate about it, t'is just my humble opinion on what I personally would start with.

Edited by BeardedMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe some of that was allready said before, but whatever.

- More customizing for houses

- allow to stuff animal corpses (or heads)

- carpets or kind of pictures on the walls

- different wall collors in one room (not sure if its allready possible)

- shelfs on the walls where stuff can be put in that becomes visible on the shelf

- different bed, table, chair, over, chest, etc... models

- Improve hunting

- more skillgain

- let unique or rare strong mobs spawn in abandoned or wild areas (its not only about dragons but more about mobs that are a challenge even for a 90FS/uber-gear hunter)

- Improve alchemy and natural subs functionality. (Alchemy and natural subs should go far beyond making HCs and dye)

- temporal buff potions

- black powder (no guns, only powder)

- powders to make mobs less agro / easier to tame / more willing to make love for a certain time

- liquids that if spilled in water attract fish

- more alloys for smithes

so far for now :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe some of that was allready said before, but whatever.

- More customizing for houses

- allow to stuff animal corpses (or heads)

- carpets or kind of pictures on the walls

- different wall collors in one room (not sure if its allready possible)

- shelfs on the walls where stuff can be put in that becomes visible on the shelf

- different bed, table, chair, over, chest, etc... models

- Improve hunting

- more skillgain

- let unique or rare strong mobs spawn in abandoned or wild areas (its not only about dragons but more about mobs that are a challenge even for a 90FS/uber-gear hunter)

- Improve alchemy and natural subs functionality. (Alchemy and natural subs should go far beyond making HCs and dye)

- temporal buff potions

- black powder (no guns, only powder)

- powders to make mobs less agro / easier to tame / more willing to make love for a certain time

- liquids that if spilled in water attract fish

- more alloys for smithes

so far for now :)

Large list there, let me break it into smaller groups:

Graphics:

Updating graphics/models are the current focus of the art team (based on their threads here) Some of the graphic changes are in the works!

Hunting/Combat:

Champion versions of creatures have a chance to spawn (not sure the percentage) on each creature "rebirth". Some of these are reported to be difficult even for fully kitted out 75-90FS characters in groups. As I don't participate in hunting high "level" creatures like this, I can only go by the screams of terror sometimes heard in the public chats...

Nature/Alchemy skills:

I remember seeing a mention these were being looked at specifically, along with cooking/drinks, so if I can find the thread, I'll link it back for you as well. For specific items, I tend to use these on the list only as examples of content that could meet the requests/suggestions, so in this case it would be "expand usefulness of alchemy" and will link back to your post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Farmerbob said a huge HUGE HUGE one.

Why keep adding new content when exsisting content needs fixing.

There is so much wurm logic that should be addressed and so many little things that should be changed to give the game polish.

For example:

I didn't need achievments or rares.

But I'd dearly love to know why a large anvil is a decoration instead of a tool?

Why can 97 sharks fit in a satchel but yet 2 cotton?

Why are free guards able to be equiped, yet the ones we pay for drop dead because we can't.

What purpose is behind paving being a skill?

Why lock attaching has such a long timer or paving?

Why a 17ql forge stays lit an hour yet a 70ql is 1:15 minutes? (Times are not exact but not far off either)

Why gold and silver alters can't be pushed, pulled but stone and wood can?

Why are new players are often given a sense of false sucurity as they are given a sword and shield, yet no armour to drop like flies after nearly ANY attack, even so much as a basic dog?

"Cook food using a huge range of ingredients."

This is just hugely decieving, no question about it..I've seen MUCH better, Ashen Empires is a good example. It has easily twice the recipes and all offer value to the player when made. I go to Ashen to cook, purely cook because it's actually fun, interesting and has good variety.

Absolutely, you can cook with a range of ingredients, sadly what ISN'T available is a huge range of useful food. Cooking in wurm is shameful as so much more could be done. Endless posts have been suggested and ignored.

I've come across countless nublets and adopted many who find out that while they can make several items, few offer any nutritional of value. Time was taken to code dishwater, yet how many times have players asked for pies? Pancakes? Cheese biscuits? I myself could come up with another 75 recipes with just the items ingame that we have now and I bet most players could come up with 50 in 1-2 hours. So many ingredients have little to no value what-so-ever.

It sorely lacks variety and useful recipes.

Since we have them, why aren't rares more...rare and balanced? Some people get 3-5 a day, others wait weeks or months, some still haven't seen a rare (beyond the dirt or brick) since they were introduced. While I disagree with this addition in the face of some many other things need improvement, here was an excellent chance to get people excited about crafting (again?) yet it's so...unbalanced and frankly odd in it's implimentation.

Ingame counts aren't consistant, some numbers are words and some are digits.

eg:

You drop 14 steel lumps.

You pickup twenty corn.

I spoke to Rolf about it, but mailing it all over the place.

You can mail this, not that.

To wrap or not?

Cross server or not?

Too big, too small, too purple what the hell?

Multi-stories houses and bridges are fine and dandy for people to want and the company to push out, but if you can't cover the content you already have then..??

Hussars: continuity, consistency, polish

Edited by kajmir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Some people quit because of the nerfs but not everyone. Most people quit because of 1 reason: boredom.

I don't deny ppl quitting of boredom. I see many ppl coming in, and then grinding up in unholy speed to achieve this as fast as possible - I've seen fresh players coming, dropping their deed after a week, building a house, reaching 70 [choose your skill] after 1.5 months, and then leave to never be seen again. Leaving a nearly undeveloped deed, with upkeep on it for months to come, and an FS-stealing ghost.

It's both factors. I didn't take the "boredom" leavers into account here, IMHO it was that they didn't understand the game as necessary. I talked of people that was long time players that got more and more unhappy with the constant restrictions of their gaming experience, but you may be right, getting bored might actually have contributed to reach the limit where they left for good.

Since this might be OT here anyway I'm not disputing any wight of "boredom" and "nerf frustration" as player repelling factors. Both are contributing, and we'll never know for sure how much for whom. I'm guilty to have ignored the boredom factor, plz excuse! :)

There is a big problem with a starter server. It was tried before, which is where GV came from. It actually hurt premium sales, as they would set up there and not be willing to move on to the premium servers and start over again.

Hi, not actually true for all. Where I ended in my beginning (Emerald bay) there was constant talk about going premium, and any other week another one said goodbye. Or went to Freedom with a fresh alt, and then slowly faded with his GV char. Any of the GV inhabitants I ever knew, that still exists there (yes, I still have a place on GV), have at least 1 premium alt now - most more than one, and having not only 1 deed is common among us ...

GV was a breeding hive for hard core Wurmians - you cannot deny this.

It just works better to have the new players mixed in with the general population, both to spread them out a bit and to give them experienced players to ask help or get answers to questions.

As we see, the current model has its drawbacks, too. New players not anymore able to play of their own, without help, for instance. Invincible monsters all over the place. This makes new players "small", even with utmost effort they're just not able to survive of their own in the wilderness. They're useless for any deed holder now, they're dependent of welfare. This isn't fun, and is reflected in the numbers.

New servers/ new game mechanics will always draw in people. But it's an art to keep 'em!

GV as it was didn't work perfectly, the current system doesn't, too - else we'd not talk about in this thread.

Now that we have 2 systems that both doesn't work sufficiently, maybe it would be wise to think of a 3rd, keeping the strong features of both while killing the weaknesses of both? I'd advocate thinking in such a way, seems the most promising solution for me.

Ending now I'd like to point to this thread. It's about a "New Player Tourist Mode" as a part of the new player experience, and about how could it could be improved. Enjoy!

Have a good time!

PS & Edit: And one more I read about today, but don't find anymore:

Being able to sell chars means that once made experience will stay in game, forever. This hurts the upcoming players, because there'll be always the old masters, with changing owners, leaving no chance to the new ones to monetize their fresh, hard earned knowledge.

While I don't know what to think of this yet it sounds like a reasonable problem. What could be done about?

Edited by Xandra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what kajmir describes is one of the bigger reasons why people leave the game.

Wurm got a buckload of features, but none of them work really.

Edited by Keldun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[Redacted]

"Cook food using a huge range of ingredients."

This is just hugely decieving, no question about it..I've seen MUCH better, Ashen Empires is a good example. It has easily twice the recipes and all offer value to the player when made. I go to Ashen to cook, purely cook because it's actually fun, interesting and has good variety.

Absolutely, you can cook with a range of ingredients, sadly what ISN'T available is a huge range of useful food. Cooking in wurm is shameful as so much more could be done. Endless posts have been suggested and ignored.

I've come across countless nublets and adopted many who find out that while they can make several items, few offer any nutritional of value. Time was taken to code dishwater, yet how many times have players asked for pies? Pancakes? Cheese biscuits? I myself could come up with another 75 recipes with just the items ingame that we have now and I bet most players could come up with 50 in 1-2 hours. So many ingredients have little to no value what-so-ever.

It sorely lacks variety and useful recipes.

[Redacted]

Hussars: continuity, consistency, polish

Updated UI section asking for normalization between Numeric vs Alphabetic text.

Cooking skill/recipe, was previously added, but adjustments to recipes clarified.

Questions based on current functionality/design are redacted as these fall more to "bugs" then the topic of this thread.

I think what kajmir describes is one of the bigger reasons why people leave the game.

Wurm got a buckload of features, but none of them work really.

While I agree there are a lot of issues like these which need to be addressed, this thread is to provide a summary list of what you feel can be added (or changed, and how it might be changed) to improve customer satisfaction and retention.

If there are current features you feel need to be addressed sooner, or are a larger impact to gameplay, please file a bug report/start a Bug thread/join an existing thread so the dev team can be made better aware of the issue and its impact. If you have specific examples of how fixing a specific bug might help the player experience, feel free to post a link back here with a brief summary and I'll add it to the roll-up.

Edited by Hussars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[Redacted]

PS & Edit: And one more I read about today, but don't find anymore:

Being able to sell chars means that once made experience will stay in game, forever. This hurts the upcoming players, because there'll be always the old masters, with changing owners, leaving no chance to the new ones to monetize their fresh, hard earned knowledge.

While I don't know what to think of this yet it sounds like a reasonable problem. What could be done about?

I've seen a couple of conversations about this recently (think the latest mention was in the "Retention" thread), if anyone endorses this, I'll add it to the roll-up and go looking for links to add.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

I've seen a couple of conversations about this recently (think the latest mention was in the "Retention" thread), if anyone endorses this, I'll add it to the roll-up and go looking for links to add.

Don't think it's necessary. Not only is it a key feature of Wurm, it's also close to impossible to prevent - it's quite easy to just pass the credentials ...

Very ambivalent - it's a blessing and a curse at the same time, IMHO. And no easy solutions coming to my mind that wouldn't hurt the game simultaneously.

See it as "food for thought" - maybe some of the people reading here, smarter than me, will have an idea ;-))

Have fun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this