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Crusader

Epic Council.

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Okay but it doesn't turn the fact you aren't from Epic, how would you know what's best for Epic when you don't play on it? I'm not trying to be rude, but you aren't seeing it from our perspective. We're trying to this the server, propose ideas to help fix Epic, then some moron from Freedom comes in saying, "Nah this won't help anything." You don't know anything, sorry. You aren't from Epic. You don't know PvP. You never tried Epic. So why even care to pledge a vote? This is all about Epic?

Sugar coat it all you like, but you are being rude and have been.

But it wouldn't be purely about Epic. Code changes can have impacts beyond PvP and Epic, In the same way that some PvP players like to jump into more Freedom-centric topics for possible fears that a change might impact them.

Not only that, but you didn't even respect the rest of the Wurm community with the idea of a well rounded council - some from Epic, some who might play Epic, some who used to play Epic, some from Freedom. But no.. you take the elitist path that only current Epic players are worthy - and you even insunated that the home servers were an irritation to you.

Here from now on I'll look for Freedom threads and just completely trash them with -1, would that be fair? I mean it's all the same game, who cares what server we're on, right? I don't do that, go look at my posts, I don't care what you all post in Freedom suggestions about dumb fishing spots and lamps, hell if I care. That's your server, but this is ours, let us vote and do our own thing. Plainly put; you're just being foolish in trying to vote how another server that you have 0 involvement of works.

Knock yourself out if that's your petty style. It's not something I do either unless I feel it would have impact on the rest of the game and other servers. In fact this is probably the only one I have given a -1 in, but there could be another I have forgotten about.

We heard your opinion despite you being from Freedom, but you don't now have to keep posting here after everyone and objecting to everything and picking a fight. This is why we need a council, because of morons like yourself, Tinkerer. You're making yourself to the be the biggest posterchild for my suggestion, you're a Freedomer posting in a thread about Epic. Go back to Freedom forums where maybe someone actually respect and knows who you are, but I personally (and others I am sure) don't want Freedom input here.

'We'? perhaps others did, you never quite seemed to though. And again, you see that is part of the problem.. not only are you unwilling to accept input or even listen to anyone from outside your little group, but you resort to base insults in the process. It's hardly a wonder that the numbers are diminishing. Did you ever stop to consider it might be players like yourself acting as the cause instead of Rolf's changes?

I guess I just won't ever understand why a Freedomer would care if a whole other server cluster made a Council to help organize better suggestion. Truth is I think you're either just wanting to debate/argue for the sake of it, or you ... are just stupid, I don't know, must be one the two, sorry.

I would like Epic to be better. I would like combat to be more interesting and not just a wall of text. I would like to see a lot of things improved - but because I am not on Epic I am not allowed a voice?

How can we get PvP changes if Rolf doesn't PvP, and apparently every PvP suggestion has some bias? I guess we'll just forever be stuck where we are at with 40 people and doing nothing special. After 9 years of the game, you think it could take off a little bit more than it has, maybe more direct player interaction and input could do that instead of Rolf blindly updating stuff.

Perhaps because none of the PvP player suggestions are balanced enough or strong enough to get majority support? Reducing the number of deciding people won't make a bad idea any better.. you'll just segregate the community further. Or perhaps because, like you, no one is willing to listen to outside ideas that might encourage more new players into the fray of battle?

I'll sign off now though and leave you to your little world. Later on when you've calmed down a bit, I suggest you re-read you OP and your early responses and perhaps you might understand why I even entered into this thread. I don't really intend to waste any more of my time trying to explain what I think I have said a few times but has obviously fallen on deaf ears.

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ENOUGH!!! You all are showing exactly why a council will never work. Arguments are all that would ever come of the committee, just like it did in the Chaos council. You all have proven that Rolf needs to decide what changes to make for himself, and all we can do is let him know when he really gets one wrong. It's frustrating, but it is the only way anything will get done in Wurm. You guys would spend 6 months just deciding who should be on the council, and would never be able to make a single decision between the lot of you.

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You know what is really funny??? If you did actually do a fair council about how PvP should be in Wurm to attract more players you guys would probably hate most of the idea's they came up with.

The only problem I see is this Idea that PvP is supposed to be your way and anyone else at all is simply intruding on the way you want PvP in Wurm to be for you and the way you play Wurm.

And this ( if it was possible ) 'Honest and fair' PvP council would end up in the same types of arguments we see here on the forums with players calling other players names and insulting each other because they think the other guys Idea's are biased or do not work for their way of playing PvP.

I would much rather see Rolf and the Devs/GMs hash out things about how to improve the game to bring MORE PLAYERS and not cater to any one style of PvP because it might offend some player.

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Don't know where you got that from he's clearly trying to get opinions from everyone/each server.

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Ok boys who is first on the council?? anyone??

Just for shnizzles and grins..go ahead and start nominating people. ;)

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Don't know where you got that from he's clearly trying to get opinions from everyone/each server.

I have no problem with giving Rolf my opinion on changes. It's a council to hash out changes that I disagree with; it never comes to any good. And Rolf would never agree to it, because then it would not be his game anymore, it would not be his vision. I may complain that he is cockeyed sometimes, but I will not try to take the future of the game from him, he's invested his life in this thing.

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I fail to see the elitism, I read the OP as, it would be nice to start an Epic council like they tried to do with Chaos.

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I fail...... like they tried to do with Chaos.

Keys words there to think about....It is not like the mindsets have changed at all since the Chaos council was tried and failed and these would basically be the same sides and players in this proposed New Council.

Doomed to fail from the start.

He would be better off to select people on the street who like PvP games who have never tried wurm and have them test it and give their opinions, because they would not have this built in bias going on.

Edited by Protunia

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I have no problem with giving Rolf my opinion on changes. It's a council to hash out changes that I disagree with; it never comes to any good. And Rolf would never agree to it, because then it would not be his game anymore, it would not be his vision. I may complain that he is cockeyed sometimes, but I will not try to take the future of the game from him, he's invested his life in this thing.

This thread only really proved that the Suggestion & Ideas thread don't work because of people exactly like TInkerer. Someone makes an Epic Suggestion, and yet someone (Tinkerer) comes in who doesn't play on Epic, and yet wants to vote. It's not his place to do so, and that is what the issue is.

You look at that Joan thread in Town Square about "Trying Epic" and who are the people badmouthing and derailing it and saying it isn't fun? People from Freedom again. I don't go to Freedom threads and trash them, why do it to us playing on a different cluster? Let us have our own suggestion, ideas, and council and not associate with morons like Tinkerer.

The simplest form I can do is this: It's just a select group (by Rolf, not me, I am not in it or heading it or whatever conspiracy people think) who can help shape up Epic a bit more by picking through Suggestion/Ideas and agreeing on a compromising from posted suggestions instead of them ALL going down the drain and never getting added.

Maybe this 5-10 people from different kingdoms and playing game differently can all civil and maturely agree on something (of course they would have to play on Epic), maybe then Epic can change a bit and crafters + PvPers can have more fun.

Edited by Crusader

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This seems like a decent and worthwhile suggestion that could help find solutions and changes that would benefit Epic as a whole while filtering out the constant back and forth arguing between the different sides of each individual element and pull out viable compromises.

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Keys words there to think about....It is not like the mindsets have changed at all since the Chaos council was tried and failed and these would basically be the same sides and players in this proposed New Council.

Doomed to fail from the start.

He would be better off to select people on the street who like PvP games who have never tried wurm and have them test it and give their opinions, because they would not have this built in bias going on.

Its not any secret to anyone that has played awhile you hated Wild, I fail to see why your view of Epic would be different, I'd rather see people that play Epic daily at least identify what isnt working, present it to Rolf, have some changes made if necessary and then maybe I would pop over and see if it has changed.

Do we prefer to wait and see what the magic 8 ball on Rolf's desk suggests?, the new PR crew?, a new Farmerbob post on all the things wrong with Wurm and this time to include Epic?

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The simplest form I can do is this: It's just a select group (by Rolf, not me, I am not in it or heading it or whatever conspiracy people think) who can help shape up Epic a bit more by picking through Suggestion/Ideas and agreeing on a compromising from posted suggestions instead of them ALL going down the drain and never getting added.

A 'select' group is the last thing this game needs to improve it. Any special group making decisions takes the option to have any say away from the rest of us, even if Rolf chose who was on the team. You are all self centered, and would not be able to have an unbiased opinion on anything. This is why Rolf does not really play the game much, so he doesn't let his prejudices from playing affect the changes he makes.

I said it in the other thread, but it bears repeating, the suggestion process needs to be all inclusive, not exclusive.

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Its not any secret to anyone that has played awhile you hated Wild, I fail to see why your view of Epic would be different, I'd rather see people that play Epic daily at least identify what isnt working, present it to Rolf, have some changes made if necessary and then maybe I would pop over and see if it has changed.

Do we prefer to wait and see what the magic 8 ball on Rolf's desk suggests?, the new PR crew?, a new Farmerbob post on all the things wrong with Wurm and this time to include Epic?

Kinda wrong there bud, I hated the same thing I see now in the same players who will not evolve in their way of thinking about Wurm PvP and what it can be. That will never change as I saw the same type of players destroy the population on Epic with that same way of thinking and being.

I do not think any type of council from the current long time PvP player base will give a true reading of what changes should happen that would bring in more PvP players.

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A 'select' group is the last thing this game needs to improve it. Any special group making decisions takes the option to have any say away from the rest of us, even if Rolf chose who was on the team. You are all self centered, and would not be able to have an unbiased opinion on anything. This is why Rolf does not really play the game much, so he doesn't let his prejudices from playing affect the changes he makes.

I said it in the other thread, but it bears repeating, the suggestion process needs to be all inclusive, not exclusive.

Going under the belief that everyone is selfish is just ignorance and stupid. Many will take suggestions in retrospect and without bias.

Mongol suggesting a positive change to a BL spell: http://forum.wurmonl...t-revised-epic/

I am Mongol, and I'm not on a Home server this doesn't apply to me at all but I know it's a broken mechanic that needs fixing: http://forum.wurmonl...vention-rework/

There are good people out there who don't have overwhelming bias, and want to just improve the game fairly. Believing everyone is just selfish and conspiracy-theory crap like that is just nonsense. Sorry, but I'm just laughing at again that it's a Freedomer (yourself) picking the arguments here, just like Tinkerer. You all in a village together?

Edited by Crusader

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Now wait a minute....Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:32 AM

+1, I am new to Epic and on JKH and this sounds like a great idea.

http://forum.wurmonl...ank/#entry63468

What is the date today?? August 7th 2012???

So you know all about who should be able to say things and suggest things simply because you have been on Epic for a month?? And now a Mongol....

*FACEPALM

facepalm111.jpg

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So you know all about who should be able to say things and suggest things simply because you have been on Epic for a month?? And now a Mongol....

I never said who should and shouldn't be on the Council, I merely said I think there needs to be a council, you're putting words in my mouth and making this look to be like I am forming some elitist group to control the server. I'm not, I never said I was in it, I never said I was leading it, I am merely saying that Rolf needs more in-game players to have more direct input to him. It would be nice to have a council of players from multiple kingdoms + severs to maturely and come together for discussions to see what is wrong and right about Epic.

I think some people just want to read it how they want, and make it look to be like a huge conspiracy. People overreact and just end up acting stupid

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Going under the belief that everyone is selfish is just ignorance and stupid. Many will take suggestions in retrospect and without bias.

Mongol suggesting a positive change to a BL spell: http://forum.wurmonl...t-revised-epic/

I am Mongol, and I'm not on a Home server this doesn't apply to me at all but I know it's a broken mechanic that needs fixing: http://forum.wurmonl...vention-rework/

There are good people out there who don't have overwhelming bias, and want to just improve the game fairly. Believing everyone is just selfish and conspiracy-theory crap like that is just nonsense. Sorry, but I'm just laughing at again that it's a Freedomer (yourself) picking the arguments here, just like Tinkerer. You all in a village together?

No, I'm a loner, and often argue with Tinkerer too. You are showing your prejudices just by your attitude about Freedomers. We are the larger group, we pay for most of this game, so you should be more willing to listen to us. But you already have this idea that just because we don't do the pvp as it is we would ruin it. Maybe we would have a much better idea, one that makes pvp actually popular.

No, committees are not going to work for this game. You can't leave anyone out of the suggestion process, as you never know where a good idea will come from. And unlike you, I'm not a new player, been here since 2008, so I know the history of this game and how badly this idea has worked out in the past, so I know it would be doomed to fail before the committee ever met.

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I been playing wurm since 2004. Being old/veteran to this game means nothing. To come in here and say, "I been around since 2008" and then thinking that means anything is elitist, you are saying because you are older than someone you have more say and rights? No, not at all, get real and get lost. Go back to freedom.

Because you have more people on a whole different server cluster you should make our changes for Epic? What?

Edited by Crusader

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yet again, the wurm community has showed why its the worst out there :>

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I been playing wurm since 2004. Being old/veteran to this game means nothing. To come in here and say, "I been around since 2008" and then thinking that means anything is elitist, you are saying because you are older than someone you have more say and rights? No, not at all, get real and get lost. Go back to freedom.

Because you have more people on a whole different server cluster you should make our changes for Epic? What?

Ok, so you have a new avater on the forums. I wonder why you have a new one, why you aren't using your old avatar? Or why just last month you said you were new to Epic and JKH? Were you playing as a Freedomer before now? You SHOULD know how badly this idea would fail if you were around so long, but you do not. Ideally it would be nice, but people ARE selfish. Arguments would ensue, nothing would come out of it, and it would eventually disband due to lack of interest. Now if they were being paid, it might be different. Like I said, people are basically selfish. You can't rely on everyone else having the same lofty goals that you have.

I was pointing out the larger population on Freedom because a lot of code changes affect BOTH sets of servers, and so our word is just as valid as yours. And we have had a LOT of changes sent to us recently that were only for the benefit of PVP, so yes, sometimes someone needs to remind you pvpers (and Rolf) which group pays the bills around here.

Oh, and Oreo, this shows why we are a great community. We actually CARE about this game and it's future. If you have nothing substantial to add to this conversation, don't try to troll it with insults to the entire group.

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If the council could be done properly and maturely, then I would both +1 this suggestion and offer myself to be on this council for MRH, as both a crafter/carebear, and moderate pvper.

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If the council could be done properly and maturely, then I would both +1 this suggestion and offer myself to be on this council for MRH, as both a crafter/carebear, and moderate pvper.

That is the basic problem tho, isn't it? Making sure it is done properly and maturely.

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I have a possible solution to the issue of PvP code affecting Freedom, and vice versa.

Each hypothetical council would have it's own forum section to discuss ideas etc. Once the Epic Council (for example) has hashed out an idea, it could be displayed for Rolf and also sent to the Freedom council forum for them to see and identify any cross-compatibility issues before possibly be implemented.

Thoughts?

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